Being Kevin Trudeau

macguy said:
The ones that got picked are afraid and intimidated by this guy they don't want to lose what they think may be a good thing. I have no doubt there is a whole pool of players ready to take their place and kiss his ass, he knows that, that's why it works.
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Don't take this the wrong way but do you have an axe to grind in all of this. I can understand being a little skeptical but you're making it seem like anyone who does this is going to get screwed. I still don't see how that will happen.

Thanks,
Koop
 
Koop said:
Don't take this the wrong way but do you have an axe to grind in all of this. I can understand being a little skeptical but you're making it seem like anyone who does this is going to get screwed. I still don't see how that will happen.

Thanks,
Koop
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Yeh...if you listen to his version, it's like every one of them is being led to the slaughterhouse with a whole bunch of exploitation and rape in-between. It's as if there's NO GOOD to the IPT at all.
 
drivermaker said:
Yeh...if you listen to his version, it's like every one of them is being led to the slaughterhouse with a whole bunch of exploitation and rape in-between. It's as if there's NO GOOD to the IPT at all.
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I mean, just the fact that pool players are actually going to make some real money should be enough. If this thing doesn't work does that necessarily mean it K.T.'s fault? I think it is going to have more to do with whether or not he and the players can attract a solid following.

That's my take.

Koop
 
onepocketchump said:
Do more than a quick read and you will get the opposite meaning out of it. Whether Kevin is full of BS or not he does state that his primary mission is personal fulfillment and that by spreading the word on "natural cures" he is helping others to do the same as well.

He makes good points in the article. The most poignant to me is when he says look at the scoreboard. Pros 0. He points out, rightly, that the industry and the existing pool organizations have failed to create a venue for professional pool players to earn a living commensurate with their talent levels. He points out, again very rightly, that in the absence of such a venue, that he could feed the public any Joe Schmoe and make him the most recognized pool player in the world.

Does anyone know who the best wrestler is? I mean the best REAL wrestler in the world? No. Who's the "best" wrestler otherwise? I can come up with several "names". It's entertainment, it's showbiz. In the absence of any OTHER body with any REAL clout, the IPT looks to be the best shot at getting the BEST players into a setting that allows them to earn like they should be earning.

He also makes a very good point about who the sponsors are for other sports and even other billiard events. Alcohol and Drugs. So what is so bad about Kevin creating a venue to advertise his book which advocates alternatives to Alcohol and Drugs?

I don't know if he is full of bull or not. What I do know is that money talks and BS walks. Right NOW he has put up the money to fund a tour where professional pool players can ply their trade with a shot at serious (for most of us) money.

As Ingvar Kamprad, the founder of IKEA, said, "profit is resources." With resources one can do a lot of good in the world.

John
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I was more skeptical when he was saying he was doing it just because he could and was having a blast. Now at least he is saying it is a business venture but I have my doubts what he actually has in mind as the finished product. He is now actually saying it will be what I suspected in the beginning, purchased TV time with him as the main advertiser and edited to the purchased time block. It is what he does and know best, why should we have expected anything different? I just hope the players get their fair piece of the pie and don't turn out like a bunch of suckers as he profits from their talents far into the future long after the tour has gone by the wayside.
 
macguy said:
I just hope the players get their fair piece of the pie and don't turn out like a bunch of suckers as he profits from their talents far into the future long after the tour has gone by the wayside.
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I could understand this if he weren't being so public about it. If he stayed within the confines of pool he could get away with it, but now that he has gone mainstream, I highly doubt he is going to screw the players.
If he did then he would be considered dumb and believe me, this guy is not dumb.

Koop
 
iconcue said:
the article is a puff piece designed to help his cause! no more, no less!
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So are most articles that are about a new venture.
Nothing gets past you :D
 
onepocketchump said:
Do more than a quick read and you will get the opposite meaning out of it. Whether Kevin is full of BS or not he does state that his primary mission is personal fulfillment and that by spreading the word on "natural cures" he is helping others to do the same as well.

He makes good points in the article. The most poignant to me is when he says look at the scoreboard. Pros 0. He points out, rightly, that the industry and the existing pool organizations have failed to create a venue for professional pool players to earn a living commensurate with their talent levels. He points out, again very rightly, that in the absence of such a venue, that he could feed the public any Joe Schmoe and make him the most recognized pool player in the world.

Does anyone know who the best wrestler is? I mean the best REAL wrestler in the world? No. Who's the "best" wrestler otherwise? I can come up with several "names". It's entertainment, it's showbiz. In the absence of any OTHER body with any REAL clout, the IPT looks to be the best shot at getting the BEST players into a setting that allows them to earn like they should be earning.

He also makes a very good point about who the sponsors are for other sports and even other billiard events. Alcohol and Drugs. So what is so bad about Kevin creating a venue to advertise his book which advocates alternatives to Alcohol and Drugs?

I don't know if he is full of bull or not. What I do know is that money talks and BS walks. Right NOW he has put up the money to fund a tour where professional pool players can ply their trade with a shot at serious (for most of us) money.

As Ingvar Kamprad, the founder of IKEA, said, "profit is resources." With resources one can do a lot of good in the world.

John
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GREAT POST. As I have said before, even if it does not pan out it at least it brings out awareness to other opportunists that may think they can even do better. Imagine the action then.
 
pete lafond said:
GREAT POST. As I have said before, even if it does not pan out it at least it brings out awareness to other opportunists that may think they can even do better. Imagine the action then.
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??? Ok Pete. So you say that its going to be great when we're passed around like hot potato? Just remember - we will not be in charge of where pool will be going. Somebody else will. Think long and hard about that, my friend. Think of the hours you and I have talked about the mismanagement the game of pool has endured. All of a sudden I'm wrong? Ok Pete. ???

John - Profit is resources, but his resources will not bring forth a profit -at least not for pool. Remember - he wants to sell his books and his products - we're just a vehicle that he is using as a platform to sell his stuff. He could do that with any sport, and most likely when he does not draw a profit from this venture - smart people will lead him in another direction. Nobody has been able to show me one ounce of proof that he has plans of making money that will go back into the tour. MacGuy has figured out why, and so have I.
If this doesn't work out, everybody seems to think that other business entities will be tripping over themselves to take over the IPT - or the pro tour. When that happened the last time - nobody would come near us with a dime.

MacGuy - I would enjoy talking with you about this. My phone number is available in profile - call me any time.
 
Blackjack Nobody has been able to show me one ounce of proof that he has plans of making money that will go back into the tour. MacGuy has figured out why said:
Please enlighten us all BlackJack. Right here in the forum. Convince me and the rest of us that this has absolutely no chance to work. Not your theories or your past experiences, but PROOF, as you put it, why this will not work! John
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Blackjack said:
??? Ok Pete. So you say that its going to be great when we're passed around like hot potato? Just remember - we will not be in charge of where pool will be going. Somebody else will. Think long and hard about that, my friend. Think of the hours you and I have talked about the mismanagement the game of pool has endured. All of a sudden I'm wrong? Ok Pete. ???

John - Profit is resources, but his resources will not bring forth a profit -at least not for pool. Remember - he wants to sell his books and his products - we're just a vehicle that he is using as a platform to sell his stuff. He could do that with any sport, and most likely when he does not draw a profit from this venture - smart people will lead him in another direction. Nobody has been able to show me one ounce of proof that he has plans of making money that will go back into the tour. MacGuy has figured out why, and so have I.
If this doesn't work out, everybody seems to think that other business entities will be tripping over themselves to take over the IPT - or the pro tour. When that happened the last time - nobody would come near us with a dime.

MacGuy - I would enjoy talking with you about this. My phone number is available in profile - call me any time.
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Blackjack, you are certainly entitled to your opinions and you seem to be a respected poster and have a lot of experience in the pool scene, but, most of what you have posted about KT and the IPT borders on bizarre in my opinion. It seems you have taken on the roll of the devil's advocate (along with MacGuy) despite all of the good news and excitement being generated
by this new venture. I believe the guy is putting something like 14 million added money into the venture over the next 2 years, the way things have been going it would have taken the powers that be about 1000 years to come up with that kind of added money. Your arguments just don't hold water in my opinion.

My suggestion to you would be to "lighten up" and try to find the good in things.

Wayne
 
Blackjack said:
??? Ok Pete. So you say that its going to be great when we're passed around like hot potato? Just remember - we will not be in charge of where pool will be going. Somebody else will. Think long and hard about that, my friend. Think of the hours you and I have talked about the mismanagement the game of pool has endured. All of a sudden I'm wrong? Ok Pete. ??? [\quote]


You (the players) aren't in charge now. And really, do you want to take responsibility for the pitiful state pool is in? Just this morning I watched the World Summit of Pool on TV. Races to 7 in the quarters, semis and final. They show the path to the final, all races to 11 until the TV rounds when it suddenly becomes a race to 7 AND NOT EVEN ALL OF THAT I SHOWN. You call that a professional event? Please tell me what other sport has a SHORTER race in the finals? Pool players RIGHT NOW are told where to be and how to be and for that they get VERY LITTLE reward. Would you care to bet me that 80% of the players who played in the "World Summit of Pool" (big important sounding title) LOST money by being there? The UPA has shown that it cannot provide a level of income for the players that is considered anything meaningful.

The venue was SO PITIFUL that Corey Deull was forced to sit very close to the table in the way of the breaker. And you are *****ing about what Kevin proposes to do? In the LJJ vs Sigel match the players were treated like stars, like they SHOULD be treated.

David, I don't know where your beef is coming from, but you need to learn to deal with RIGHT NOW. If you want my opinion about how the UPA could help pool RIGHT NOW it would be to FORCE the lower ranked members to ABDICATE their spots in favor of higher ranked members of the UPA who are not currently part of the IPT. That is if the IPT would have them. Why didn't the UPA apply for all of it's members on behalf of it's players if the goal is to provide betterment for professional pool players, hmm?????

blackjack said:
John - Profit is resources, but his resources will not bring forth a profit -at least not for pool. Remember - he wants to sell his books and his products - we're just a vehicle that he is using as a platform to sell his stuff. He could do that with any sport, and most likely when he does not draw a profit from this venture - smart people will lead him in another direction. Nobody has been able to show me one ounce of proof that he has plans of making money that will go back into the tour. MacGuy has figured out why, and so have I.
If this doesn't work out, everybody seems to think that other business entities will be tripping over themselves to take over the IPT - or the pro tour. When that happened the last time - nobody would come near us with a dime.
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What???? If no other event happens beyond the LJJ/Sigel match then that alone was beneficial to pool simply because it raised the awareness level by a few points. Pool players who have been recognized as deserving of Hall of Fame status are going to get $30,000 apiece just for showing up. That's beneficial. Did you ever see the BCA give any monetary awards to HOF members? There are only two a year. Why should anyone care whether you are happy with the business plan? Why do you feel like you have a right to know what the business plan is? Kevin laid it out in the article in plain english. The same thing that I said to you a week ago. Economics 101. Where is your golden solution? If you have one and you truly CARE that MUCH then put it in place and watch the players flock to you. As for being a vehicle to sell stuff; sorry to break it ya' but that is all a professional sportsperson is and that is why any business sponsors(advertises) any sporting event, from little league baseball to pool tours.

John
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Yeah, does anybody think that the "added" money for all of the UPA and Independent Events that were billed as part of the UPA tour has added up to $500,000 in the last three years? I would be suprised if it was much more than that.

How about the WPBA? What is their payout above the entry fees? I bet it's less than 500,000 per year. The entry fees generate something like $240,000 a year. Let's give them one million per year to disburse to 64 players who play in every event. That's a median income of $15,625. Does that sound like a lucrative amount of money to anyone?

The UPA certainly doesn't pay out a million a year to it's players and it has more than 64 PROFESSIONAL PLAYERS. So their median income is signifigantly lower.

Conversely, you have the IPT with a GUARANTEED payout of 9 MILLION in 2006. That's 9,000,000 divided among 150 players for a median income of $60,000 each. I guess the math speak for itself.

This is all not counting the extra money that should flow in through player endorsements, exhibitions, other events and so on.

THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE TO THIS for professional pool players. Finally, a chance to use the skills they have honed all their lives and be rewarded without HUSTLING for it.

John
 
Blackjack said:
??? Ok Pete. So you say that its going to be great when we're passed around like hot potato? Just remember - we will not be in charge of where pool will be going. Somebody else will. Think long and hard about that, my friend. Think of the hours you and I have talked about the mismanagement the game of pool has endured. All of a sudden I'm wrong? Ok Pete. ???
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I see only an opportunity for players to make the money they rightfully deserve. As I stated, if this does not work billiards still wins. Why? Billiards is a diamond in the rough, a real find to any investor. Just by KT's actions he is opening the eyes of other opportunists who also have real cash. They will jump in with their own ideas that will most probably improve upon KT's. This is a transition that other businesses have always enjoyed and billiards has been deprived of.

You know my feelings; Billiards is a fragmentation of many things that continues to tear it apart. Billiards is a billiard room game, not a bar game, if KT is reasonably successful just maybe this will get more people wanting to become pool players by going to the billiard room. If this happens, then vendors sell more products, sponsor more tournaments and payouts are improved. The billiards economy starts in the billiard rooms and until this happens billiards will never move forward. My hopes are people will get out of the bar leagues and into the pool room, and just maybe what KT is doing will promote this, 'cause no one else is.

We
 
Blackjack said:
If this doesn't work out, everybody seems to think that other business entities will be tripping over themselves to take over the IPT - or the pro tour. When that happened the last time - nobody would come near us with a dime.
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Mr. Blackjack, it seems as though the majority of the pool playing populace has developed a serious case of memory loss. Or perhaps it could be a case of plain old-fashioned ignorance coupled with a serious case of monetary blindness in regards to this situation.

It seems that the current popular line of thinking is that all someone has to do is throw some money at the pool problem and *poof*, the problem magically disappears with nary a care in the world as to what the future has in store, be it good or bad. In other words, all that is needed is a short-term fix & to hell with the long term.

Is it just me, or have there been no real big-time sponsors that have yet to step forward and sign on or otherwise support this new "venture" & its participants? And for that matter, I have yet to see one broadcast or advertisement of this so-called wondrous "world tournament" that occurred recently on either cable or free network TV. If that so-called "tournament" had been such a big deal as some of the I.P.T.'s proponents have claimed it was (with one person going so far as to call it a "tribute to the sport" (ha-ha)), one would think that the networks would be beating a hasty path to or calling up Kevin Trudeau's workplace & making endless offers & counter-offers to this great organization that the I.P.T. likes to claim it is in order for them to be the one who attains the ultimate prize of the I.P.T.'s television broadcasting rights.

The more I look at this whole I.P.T. situation, the less I like it. It looks & feels like the Camel tour all over again, with the big promises & guarantees of fame & fortune being offered up & questionable characters behind the scenes at its helm or singing its praises to the pool playing populace. All that is needed now is for Don Mackey to come back into the picture & the stage will be complete.

Mr. Blackjack, I'm sure you remember as well as I do what Camel did when it came to getting the cigarette smoking tour players to switch to their brand of cigarettes. I'm just waiting for Mr. Trudeau to start peddling his "natural cures" to the players in a similar way that Camel did with its cigarettes i.e. Kevin gives two bottles of his all natural coral cure-all for one bottle of the competitor's bee pollen cure-all.

I just hope that the players that do participate in the I.P.T. have the good sense to do something productive with their winnings. Should this tour fail, you can forget about anyone coming close to this sport with a "dime in the future", to quote Mr. Blackjack; it will be lucky if anyone approaches it with a penny.
 
positive and negative

I just wish all the negative naysayers would all go into one room (chat or forum or otherwise) and talk their gloom and doom to each other, and all the positive excited and happy people go into another and rave about the future....I know which room I would enter.....
 
Oh yeah, I think all the players should just stick with the status quo, stay on the current course, at least they own a piece of nothing, you know all that advertising money, DVD sales, and great endorsements and great exposer, why risk loosing all that. :rolleyes:

If Kevin owns the tour and makes money from advertising, promotions, tapes , etc... that will suck, right? I mean the players will only have larger payouts, whats that worth, heck they may only be lucky enough to place 20th and make $20,000 or win and get a paltry $200,000, that sure sounds worse then owning what they have now :rolleyes:

Does anyone think the Rock is where he is at because he is a great actor? or Hulk Hogan has a huge mansion in Florida because he did it all by himself? Vince Mcmahon certainly has made TONS more off there name an likeness then they ever did or will, where would they have been without him? How about Mike Tyson, now there is a real business savvy guy, I'm sure without Don King he would have been just as successful. :rolleyes:

I'm not sure but the last time I check Players didn't get a dime from any advertising on ESPN, or residuals on the reruns. of course if they did, the advertising revenue for pool is well....I guess they would all get .02 cents.

A smaller piece of something big is better then a whole slice of nothing :D
 
Am I right to believe that MacGuy was not selected by KT?

We all know the backgroung of KT - but what is the background of MacGuy?

What has he accomplished in his life that he knows so much about what KT should do?
And how KT will ruin pool. (What a ridiculous statement on its face)

As KT said in his interview on CNN there is nothing wrong with making a lot of money. In fact that is the goal of most people who want to be successfull. And as far as KT making money for his company by selling his book and having people subscribe to his website, well, isn't that what all advertisers want? Do you think Bud, Nike, etal, are philanthropic entities when they sponsor events? Of course not, they do it to make money. Lots, and lots of money.

Anyway, MacGuy, comes across as a nut case. Right there with the guy who tried to strong Arm KT for $150,000.

In about 40 days we will all find out. Will the 43 selected (honored) players be happy or not? Will they be paid? Will the 12 Hall of Famers complain about being in a tournament where just by showing up they will be guaranteed $30,000 and have a chance to win a lot more?

Time will tell.

But I bet they will all be laughing. All the way to the bank.
 
so yeah he wants to get ritch, so what? Why would he choose pool? one reason, the guy is hooked... If he really wanted to advertise and expand his market he would sponcer Nascar, From a business standpoint what he is doing isnt the best investment..


I understand what he is doing, I understand his mentality, all I can do is wish him luck... If he ever makes it, he could bring new life into the game... The problem is you must understand the game and what it takes to fully appritiate what I think he is trying to accomplish, the whole Nature cure thing is his ace in the whole should he not succeed, to witch he cannot fail, at the very least he is promoting His product to thousands of people, nothing is for certain, I believe if he will hold true to the purpose that brought this to be, he will succeed...


Im for or against this person, I can apritiate the effort...



2wld4u
 
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