Bemoaning the rise of the bar box

bad_hit said:
I think we should all go WITH it, not against it. Make it into what we want. Push for better equipment, tighter pockets (maybe), better lighting, etc.

The bar table is here to stay, people play pool in bars now. The "pool hall" is a thing of the past and we can miss it and remember the good 'ol days, but they're gone. Let's take what we have today and make it better, teach the bangers how the game is supposed to be played. Teach the bar owners how much better it is to have a pool culture on their tables and not a couple bangers here and there spilling drinks and being pains in the asses.

Disclaimer - I learned to play in a great pool hall on 9' GCs, and played there 10 years most days of the week, I miss it every day. It was a part of me, as cheesy as that sounds, But it's gone. Guess what - I still like pool and have adapted to 7' Diamonds now and it's still fun.
Click to expand...

Great post!!:thumbup::thumbup:
 
It was different

I played on a 7ft Diamond a couple of days ago and it was definitely different from a 9ft but it played like a good table. I could see how a smaller table really helps people learn the game.
 
I've thought a bit more about this. I think that I really tired of league play as much as I tired of playing on a bar table. Over the last two years, I have only played as a substitute and could not really bring myself to care or even bear down while playing.

So, I think that I would rather play tournaments in order to give myself a goal. Obviously I would prefer 9' tourneys, but I will do bar box ones if that's all there is. Does anyone know of any decent tournaments within an hours drive of the central bluegrass? Surely Cincinnati or Louisville have something going???

I tried searching Google for the Southern Billiards Tour that Shannon Daulton puts on, but I did not find any new events for 2016 and it looks like their facebook page no longer exists. Is he no longer doing the tourney?

Anyway, if someone could point me in the direction of a reasonable tourney, I would appreciate it. I'm not really interested in those bar box 8 ball tourneys that race to 1.

Thanks and happy Friday...
 
Chandleys Multiloss events on saturday

jalapus logan said:
I've thought a bit more about this. I think that I really tired of league play as much as I tired of playing on a bar table. Over the last two years, I have only played as a substitute and could not really bring myself to care or even bear down while playing.

So, I think that I would rather play tournaments in order to give myself a goal. Obviously I would prefer 9' tourneys, but I will do bar box ones if that's all there is. Does anyone know of any decent tournaments within an hours drive of the central bluegrass? Surely Cincinnati or Louisville have something going???

I tried searching Google for the Southern Billiards Tour that Shannon Daulton puts on, but I did not find any new events for 2016 and it looks like their facebook page no longer exists. Is he no longer doing the tourney?

Anyway, if someone could point me in the direction of a reasonable tourney, I would appreciate it. I'm not really interested in those bar box 8 ball tourneys that race to 1.

Thanks and happy Friday...
Click to expand...

Check out Chandleys Chalk and Cue on Facebook.

They are going to be having Multiloss Tournaments on the occasional Saturday. Ive heard the tournament is $35.
 
336Robin said:
Check out Chandleys Chalk and Cue on Facebook.

They are going to be having Multiloss Tournaments on the occasional Saturday. Ive heard the tournament is $35.
Click to expand...

That place looks awesome. Too bad its 6 hours away, I'm in a different Lexington, LOL. I wish we had a place like that in our area. That would probably be a great road trip destination for me though.
 
Cardigan Kid said:
I'm not so sure anything can be done about it because it all has to do with the mentality of the sport as a whole, from the amateurs to the professionals.

Pool really is the only American sport where the amateurs settle for being amateurs.

When I look at American professional soccer, there are minor leagues, and even a professional indoor league where the field is smaller, goals are plentiful, game is faster. But ask any of the players and they would much rather be playing in the majors MLS.

The same goes for baseball minor leagues to golf. Every player at one time wishes they could play like the pros, and many give it their best shot.

Except pool.

Pool amateurs can be just fine getting to Vegas on seven foot tables, and have no desire to ever get on a nine foot table. How can I say such a blanket statement? Well the numbers don't lie. Big table pool halls are disappearing and APA has millions competing.

But when I see the ads for Vegas tournaments with a sea of diamond bar boxes. Or the SBE with its endless tourney room of bar boxes, I have to shake my head. It's not Alan Hopkins fault nor diamond for making the tables, they are just recognizing the demand. And that is a direct result of the culture of American pool-no desire to play with the best.
Click to expand...

I can think of 1 other "sport" other than pool. I use to be big into bowling before blowing out my knee. Almost any serious bowling could get a PBA card but the money in amateur bowling was better. Jeremy Sonnenfeld helped me get better at bowling and he never went pro because he could make good money in the amateur events and not be disqualified for being a pro. I know a bit off topic.

I just turned 30 and until I got serious about pool (about 3 years ago) I didn't even know 9 fters existed. Almost all we have around here are 7 foot Valleys and the main league is VNEA. It's still all call shot and I still have a good time shooting league. Last year I found a 9ft Gabrielle in a bars basement and finally understood all the hype. I still suck but there is nothing like shooting on a nice 9 foot table. I can lose myself for hours shooting 8, 9 or 14.1. I wish I could have played back in the day that all of you talk about when pool was popular and we had all these pool halls.
 
I really don't understand the disdain for the seven footers. I grew up playing on a home nine footer, and now have a barbox in my man cave because that is what will fit. I agree it is different playing on the two tables, but I think both sizes have their own characteristics that make them challenging and fun.

Why is real pool played only on a nine foot table? What about nine footers make them better than ten footers or eight footers?

I like my 7 footer for the sheer fact that since it is in my home, my two daughters get to play every day. They are developing real skills and a love for the game. Without the barbox in my home, they would likely rarely, if ever, get to play pool at all.

Learning to stroke a straight in shot is the same regardless of a few inches in length and width. I wonder if it would dampen their enthusiasm for pool if someone were to tell them they weren't playing real pool because of those few inches....
 
I don't know if I am prejudiced against 7 foot tables. I just played on 9 footers all my life and consider that to be the standard size table. An 8 foot table actually feels small to me. I like the challenge of the long shot and the larger playing area.

The only time I played on 7 foot tables was in bars or when our APA team entered finals and yes, they are different on which to play. Personally, I don't and never did consider bar room pool serious pool possibly due to the general condition of the tables found in bars. Unfortunately where the APA finals are held in our area the 7 foot tables are in deplorable condition. So I probably am influenced at least a little bit by the condition of the 7 footers I was always exposed to.

I have a 9 foot table at home and if I had the room, I would buy a 10 foot table in a heartbeat.
 
jokrswylde said:
I really don't understand the disdain for the seven footers. I grew up playing on a home nine footer, and now have a barbox in my man cave because that is what will fit. I agree it is different playing on the two tables, but I think both sizes have their own characteristics that make them challenging and fun.

Why is real pool played only on a nine foot table? What about nine footers make them better than ten footers or eight footers?

I like my 7 footer for the sheer fact that since it is in my home, my two daughters get to play every day. They are developing real skills and a love for the game. Without the barbox in my home, they would likely rarely, if ever, get to play pool at all.

Learning to stroke a straight in shot is the same regardless of a few inches in length and width. I wonder if it would dampen their enthusiasm for pool if someone were to tell them they weren't playing real pool because of those few inches....
Click to expand...

I guess my gripe is not so much the rise of bar tables as much as the disappearance of nine foot tables. The playing experience really is much better to me and to many on a nine foot table. The extra square feet really do enhance the game and add difficulty. Just look at AZB'er Atlarge's tournament data of 9' vs. 7' events, the stats tell the tale of difficulty for sure.

I recall when Thorston Hohmann won won of the bar table CSI events a year or two ago. They were congratulating him on winning the US Open and he qualified it by saying the "bar box" US Open, lol.

I don't want to say that bar tables have no place. They do, in bars. Well, and the one next to my 9' Diamond pro, lol. I just think that they should play second fiddle to the 9' tables. That has been the tournament table for decades upon decades. But these days, I guess that its second fiddle or no fiddle at all.
 
jalapus logan said:
I guess my gripe is not so much the rise of bar tables as much as the disappearance of nine foot tables. The playing experience really is much better to me and to many on a nine foot table. The extra square feet really do enhance the game and add difficulty. Just look at AZB'er Atlarge's tournament data of 9' vs. 7' events, the stats tell the tale of difficulty for sure.

I recall when Thorston Hohmann won won of the bar table CSI events a year or two ago. They were congratulating him on winning the US Open and he qualified it by saying the "bar box" US Open, lol.

I don't want to say that bar tables have no place. They do, in bars. Well, and the one next to my 9' Diamond pro, lol. I just think that they should play second fiddle to the 9' tables. That has been the tournament table for decades upon decades. But these days, I guess that its second fiddle or no fiddle at all.
Click to expand...

Come on up to the population centers of the northeast and mid atlantic and you will find all the nine footers you want.
 
jokrswylde said:
I really don't understand the disdain for the seven footers. I grew up playing on a home nine footer, and now have a barbox in my man cave because that is what will fit. I agree it is different playing on the two tables, but I think both sizes have their own characteristics that make them challenging and fun.



Why is real pool played only on a nine foot table? What about nine footers make them better than ten footers or eight footers?



I like my 7 footer for the sheer fact that since it is in my home, my two daughters get to play every day. They are developing real skills and a love for the game. Without the barbox in my home, they would likely rarely, if ever, get to play pool at all.



Learning to stroke a straight in shot is the same regardless of a few inches in length and width. I wonder if it would dampen their enthusiasm for pool if someone were to tell them they weren't playing real pool because of those few inches....
Click to expand...


If they have a use then this is it, for kids that aren't fully grown yet,learning the game. Kind of like learning to ride a bike with training wheels but those eventually get taken off don't they. Oh and for the record, the difference between 2 foot longer & a foot wider is more than "a few inches" in length & width.
 
I played on a 9 foot table last week for the first time in 2 years. I had no problem running out. In fact it felt easier then a bar box because I could leave my stroke out and had larger area's to put the cue ball. If you got a stroke and can play it doesn't matter what size the table it.
The fact is the sorry state our game is in I don't care what size table your playing on.. if your supporting the game your good in my book.
 
So I thought that I would repost some of Atlarge's data for 8 ball pleayed on 7' vs 9' tables. I am surprised to learn that 8 ball on either size table appears to be roughly the same level of difficulty if using break & run % as a unit of measure.

Check it out (his original post is here):

Here's a comparison of results from streamed 8-Ball matches played on 7-foot tables versus 9-foot tables.

A = 2015 US Open 8-Ball Championship (7-footers)
B = 2015 US Bar Table 8-Ball Championship (7-footers)
C = 2014 CSI Invitational 8-Ball Championship (9-footers)
D = 2014 Accu-Stats "Make It Happen" Invitational 8-Ball event (9-footers)

Made at least one ball on the break and did not foul:
A -- 67% (157 of 233)
B -- 68% (98 of 144)
C -- 71% (154 of 218)
D -- 73% (85 of 117)

Breaker won the game:
A -- 64% (148 of 233)
B -- 58% (83 of 144)
C -- 64% (139 of 218)
D -- 61% (71 of 117)

Break-and-run games:
A -- 52% (120 of 233)
B -- 44% (64 of 144)
C -- 54% (118 of 218)
D -- 50% (59 of 117)

Break-and-run games on successful breaks:
A -- 76% (120 of 157)
B -- 65% (64 of 98)
C -- 77% (118 of 154)
D -- 69% (59 of 85)

Run-outs by non-breaker after fouled or dry breaks:
A -- 71% (54 of 76)
B -- 54% (25 of 46)
C -- 69% (44 of 64)
D -- 66% (21 of 32)

Total run-outs by player at table after the break;
A -- 75% (174 of 233)
B -- 62% (89 of 144)
C -- 74% (162 of 218)
D -- 68% (80 of 117)
 
But his data does support the opinion that 9 or 10 ball is actually easier on a bar box vs the 9 footer (original post here):


Quote:
Originally Posted by jburkm002 View Post
How do these stats stack up against the big tables? Since there is an argument as to how easy 7 footers are.
It varies quite a bit from event to event on 9-footers, depending on where the balls are racked, whether a racking template is being used, and whether they must break from a box (and, if so, the size of the box).

But the 81% for successful breaks and 36% for B&R games in this event are higher than in most 9-Ball events on 9-footers.

Another measure of how difficult the tables are is the percentage of run-outs by whoever is at the table after the break, whether it is the breaker after a successful break or the non-breaker after the breaker's fouled or dry break. That figure for the 15 matches on the 7-footers at Big Tyme was 47%. Here are some comparable figures (based on only the matches I watched) for three fairly recent 9-Ball events using 9-footers:
• 2014 WPA World 9-Ball Championship -- 41%
• Turning Stone XXIII 9-Ball Classic -- 36%
• 2015 DCC 9-Ball -- 39%.



MANY THANKS FOR ATLARGE FOR HIS EFFORTS!!!
 
I've not followed this discussion in the past closely. Some good points in this thread. I have always played on 9 footers. Playing on smaller tables is fun from time to time, but I cannot go out of my way to play on them when 9 footers are close to where I live. I watched a bunch of Chinook Winds, and just cannot understand how pro's playing on 7 footers is a good thing. I get the financials behind the movement, and am not bemoaning their popularity...I just wish it was not so. When I first started playing in BCA, the league had many great players. Slowly but surely those great players are moving to 7 foot diamond leagues\tournaments in the local area. I believe it's because Chinook and I guess nationals are played on 7 foot diamonds...

Replacing Valley's with Diamonds is a great thing. Replacing 9 footers with 7 footers is not. Luckily my local hall has not gone this route.

Banks...I hope your discussion with a local pool hall does not send some of "MY" 9 footers away...I can dream that your discussion is to replace with 9 foot diamonds...:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top