Best epoxy for assembly

[miguelcon74]

Hello,

There are multiple epoxies out there and I'm just getting a consensus here.

I ordered some black dp420 from 3m and wanted an opinion on it.

Also opinions on other clear epoxies. West system? System Three? etc.

I appreciate all opinions and knowledge here. Opinions on which epoxies soak in better, which ones to use for a seal coat, assembly, clear coat, etc.

Thanks,

Michael

 

[Kim Bye]

DP420 is great for carbon fibre shaft work. Pretty expensive if you plan on using it for cue construction. I use West 105 with several if their hardeners depending on what the task is.

 

[miguelcon74]

DP420 is great for carbon fibre shaft work. Pretty expensive if you plan on using it for cue construction. I use West 105 with several if their hardeners depending on what the task is.

It is pricey but I wanted to test it for all my black ringwork and joint and butt cap.

I'm a 30 year cue repair guy and have made some jump cues and one butt that never got a joint pin in it. But I started with some newer equipment recently and am building my 1st cue.

Do you believe dp420 is pentratable enough for assembly? But probably only for specfic tasks like you said carbon fibre.

I'm ordering some west system tonight.

So when it comes to West hardeners, what do you mean by what the task is? I want to be able to have a very long working time, so I'm assuming that the extra slow cure/hardener 209 would be best. I'd want to to sit and soak for a good amount of time 20 minutes? to penetrate wood, especially harder woods, oily woods. Am I correct in assuming 209 would soak into end grain better?

205 fast, 206 slow, 209 extra slow hardener. do these speeds change the strength/stiffness of the cured product?

Not to change topic but a quick question since you replied, what do you believe is best for pure black joint and butt caps? Which ones hold the best finish? I'm not a fan of linen or canvas phenolic because of how you can see the fibres. No delrin either! What do you think of solid black juma, paper phenolic, black acrylic, etc.

What are you using for your clearcoat? Are you using an epoxy penetrating sealer first or just finishing? I've used only CA so far but it chips too easily at the joint and butt cap. I have no spray booth at this time.


Thanks for the knowledge,

mc

 

[Kim Bye]

West 205 fast for things like ferrules, joint collars etc. Use the slow hardner for coring and jobs where you need a long working time. The 209 special clear can be used for basecoat, it has a much stronger smell than regular 205 or 206 and it goes bad really quick, and then it's not nice and clear anymore, gets a pronounced yellow tint. remember the 400 series powders too, they are great for things like gluing in inserts.
Juma and T34 is easy to machine and work with, so is Tomahawk. Not all phenolic is created the same way though and if you find nice black phenolic, it's still my go to material, you have to go really close to see the weave in the material.
I use a water thin epoxy for basecoat and a two part clear over that, all finishing products like sand paper, cutting compound, buffing etc is from 3M.

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

Black linen phenolic is the best. If you have the correct stuff! All those other plastics for collars have their own inherent problems.

 

[JoeyInCali]

DP420 is one of the toughest epoxies.
DP460 is thinner, longer working and drying time.

 

[tg_vegas]

I spoke with a West rep today about this very topic. I learned that for cues, the 207 hardener is ideal. It cures slightly faster than the 205 but cures CLEAR. Thus no concern of a visible glue line on ferrules and rings. Cure time between 205/206 but without the yellow/brownish color that the 205/206 mix tends to get upon curing.

 

[JoeyInCali]

No glue rings for ferrules ?
You'll find out.

 

[tg_vegas]

The key word is visible, that doesn't mean it isn't there. The 205/206 hardeners have a slight yellow/brown tint to them and if there is enough of it, can almost look like a very thin ring. The thought on the 207 is that it remains clear, and when dried, is not obvious to the eye that it is present. Clearly, we want expoxy betweeen the ferrule and shaft end, but it doesn't have to stand out.

 

[Dave38]

The key word is visible, that doesn't mean it isn't there. The 205/206 hardeners have a slight yellow/brown tint to them and if there is enough of it, can almost look like a very thin ring. The thought on the 207 is that it remains clear, and when dried, is not obvious to the eye that it is present. Clearly, we want expoxy betweeen the ferrule and shaft end, but it doesn't have to stand out.

After buying and using the 207, multipule times for finish....IT DOES GO DARK...and DOES NOT DRY CLEAR AFTER IT HAS DARKENED! Spent $$$ and had to refinish cues due to the darkening deal. Maybe if you use the whole can in a month it will be fine but to us small time guys, it WILL come out darker out of the can after a few months of being open. Better off with MAX1618......a yr later and still clear in the bottles......try to get west system ANY type to do that

 

[tg_vegas]

Now THIS is why I participate in this forum. I've not tried the 207 yet but based upon this post, I will not. THANK YOU for helping a new guy get started without regrets!!!

 

[JoeyInCali]

The key word is visible, that doesn't mean it isn't there. The 205/206 hardeners have a slight yellow/brown tint to them and if there is enough of it, can almost look like a very thin ring. The thought on the 207 is that it remains clear, and when dried, is not obvious to the eye that it is present. Clearly, we want expoxy betweeen the ferrule and shaft end, but it doesn't have to stand out.

But, you haven't TESTED it.
You only talked to the rep who isn't very knowledgeable.
You can still use 207 and not leave any glue ring or darkening.
The WS website clues you how to do it.

Self discovery is so much more rewarding than just buying everyone's word.

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

Or NOT using an epoxy at all on a ferrule will guarantee you a clean application and look. You can't slip fit your ferrules tho. You have to actually do a little bit of work on them.
You also need two clean, flat faces to ensure a "no ring" look.

 

[tg_vegas]

So on this picture, there is NO adhesive of any kind ??

 

[tg_vegas]

But, you haven't TESTED it.
You only talked to the rep who isn't very knowledgeable.
You can still use 207 and not leave any glue ring or darkening.
The WS website clues you how to do it.

Self discovery is so much more rewarding than just buying everyone's word.

... and posts like this adds nothing of value, just hints at the kind of person you are..

 

[Rodney]

So on this picture, there is NO adhesive of any kind ??

Look at the top of the ferrule…

 

[tg_vegas]

From the above post, it seemed to me that the poster was implying NO epoxy at all was used, but you see the same thing I do at the top of the ferrule

" Or NOT using an epoxy at all on a ferrule will guarantee you a clean application and look. You can't slip fit your ferrules tho. You have to actually do a little bit of work on them.
You also need two clean, flat faces to ensure a "no ring" look. "

 

[Dave38]

From the above post, it seemed to me that the poster was implying NO epoxy at all was used, but you see the same thing I do at the top of the ferrule

" Or NOT using an epoxy at all on a ferrule will guarantee you a clean application and look. You can't slip fit your ferrules tho. You have to actually do a little bit of work on them.
You also need two clean, flat faces to ensure a "no ring" look. "

There is NO epoxy on that ferrule, If you have been here long enough, Dave has shared multipule times what he uses on ferrules and how he assembles them.

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

So on this picture, there is NO adhesive of any kind ??

tg,
"No epoxy" does not mean "no adhesive". I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion by what I put in print?

As pointed out by some keen, eagle eyed individual(s), there is a very common and well known adhesive that I use on my ferrules.
I probably have a little different theory and approach when it comes to attaching the ferrule, however I was taught this theory by a well known builder who had many more years experience than I when it was shown to me and to my knowledge he still uses this method today also.
Makes sense to me, so I use it.

 

[tg_vegas]

I haven't been on here long enough so your post is not helpful to me. Perhaps a link?

tg,
"No epoxy" does not mean "no adhesive". I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion by what I put in print?

As pointed out by some keen, eagle eyed individual(s), there is a very common and well known adhesive that I use on my ferrules.
I probably have a little different theory and approach when it comes to attaching the ferrule, however I was taught this theory by a well known builder who had many more years experience than I when it was shown to me and to my knowledge he still uses this method today also.
Makes sense to me, so I use it.

Any chance that there is a link to a thread about what you use? I’m new to all of this and haven’t been able to find anything via search