Best Masse Shot in an Actual Game....
- Thread starter DA\/E
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A fine discussion gents, but I don't necessarily agree with those who said it is not a masse shot for the reasons they have stated.
Most of the definitions I can find definitely define a masse shot as using an elevated cue, which he certainly did.
Many definitions also suggest the aim of the shot is to "swerve around an intervening ball" , but I don't think that this is absolutely necessary for a stroke to qualify as a masse. For example, many of the magnificant masse shots used in 3c billiards have the cue ball close to an object ball, and the idea of the shot is to impart spin on the cue ball using an elevated cue, not to swerve around a ball. People don't call these shots "draw" shots.
Jury still out on this one for me.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rhr3gaatPzs&t=38m35s
Some people may not realize you were talking about the next shot after the simple draw shot.
For pique' or piquet shots - Clive Cottingham's book "The Game of Billiards" (1964)..page 122, to be exact...there is an illustration and description of a Piguet shot
"The piquet shot is a draw shot which goes forward and then reverses without striking an object ball. the backward spin imparted to the cue ball is greater then the forward thrust, and overcomes friction forward.
Some billiard players call a pique' (most common spelling that I've seen) shot any extreme spin draw shot with some level of elevation, no english with the majority going off an object ball, which is in disagreement with Cottingham's definition. Most of these the draw would be straight back or nearly straight back. To that point, some would call the Jimmy White shot a pique'.
I would have called you're original post shot a vertical or extreme elevated nip draw shot. His whole attempt was to not double-hit the cueball but make the carom shot. I suppose if masse' means specifically to hold the cue vertical, then he did do that.
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I'm not one to argue but I'll give my take on the shot posted.. Although it was a masse stroke, the actual shot was either a carom or a combination. He only jacked up to avoid double hitting the CB IMHO.
It looked as if he was playing the combo and the carom was just a bonus.. Different opinions are what make the world go around.
It looked as if he was playing the combo and the carom was just a bonus.. Different opinions are what make the world go around.
i made masse break shot from another end of table on straight pool final of national ranking tournament final and had run of 50+ going against "upcoming" poker superstar ilari sahamies(he is finnish junior champ in pool btw). I had shooted that kinda shot in trick shot exhibitions. shot similar to that rempes shot but cueball was almost frozen to object ball near end rail.. nailed ball hard and cueball jumped to rail nose and got super fast 90 degrees spurt on to the rack.. run was 70+ something at end and i won final 100-11 or something like that 
i will make vid on that shot today.
another crazy masse was straight pool finnish championship and against Mjantti who has posted here quite a lot. i was down 93 or 94 to 11 or 14 or something near that. he probably remember that comeback what i made from that shot
winner got place to quaterfinals
i was almost frozen on 2 balls to behind of rack after mjantti safe and freehanded massed another of those in corner and cueball almost got to end rail and curved back to rack and bumped that full rack little.. so i had then 5 balls combo after that :grin:
i will make vid on that shot today.
another crazy masse was straight pool finnish championship and against Mjantti who has posted here quite a lot. i was down 93 or 94 to 11 or 14 or something near that. he probably remember that comeback what i made from that shot
winner got place to quaterfinals i was almost frozen on 2 balls to behind of rack after mjantti safe and freehanded massed another of those in corner and cueball almost got to end rail and curved back to rack and bumped that full rack little.. so i had then 5 balls combo after that :grin:
Agreed, a great shot !! Commentators thought it was a Masse as well. He wasn't swerving around an intervening ball either.
Ok, so I'll go with Masse "Stroke", and the outcome of the "stroke" was both a combo and a carom. And he definitely knew both were on, as you can see him aim them both. (And as I said earlier, I think he probably spent more time on the shot than was shown). To make either (let alone both) was a combination of a great shot (which encompass a great stroke), good luck and generous pockets.
A real bummer he didn't get out afterwards.......:grin:
Not just hold the cue vertically, but make a "Stroke" with the cue held vertically. :wink:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/masse-shot
I like the part here, which refers to "Origin".
"Struck down from Above", "Straight Down".
And also..... "From The French - Masser - To Hit from Above with a Hammer".
Jury can go home for Mine. It's a Masse.
Now, back to the original question, Is it the best Masse shot anyone has seen in a game that they have FOOTAGE of ????? :thumbup: