Best online course in fundamentals
- Thread starter jimstone
- Start date
Buy " Play Great Pool" by Mark Wilson- Read the book once. Then get yourself a tripod and use your phone to record each practice session, Review your practice videos to assist in conforming to Mark's instructions on fundamentals - you must be dedicated- several hours of practice and video review each week- keep going back to the book for re- reads- It will take time, but this method is great for improvement on fundamentals. You may end up re building your entire approach to fundamentals- as I did with Mark's book and the videos.
I am two full years+ into this routine and I see vast improvements- it is still ongoing for me. Watching Dr. Dave and other internet videos is fine- but there just is no substitution for self help better than actually seeing the videos of your own fundamentals and constant review and correction of flaws until you get it right very, very consistently.
I am two full years+ into this routine and I see vast improvements- it is still ongoing for me. Watching Dr. Dave and other internet videos is fine- but there just is no substitution for self help better than actually seeing the videos of your own fundamentals and constant review and correction of flaws until you get it right very, very consistently.
Get the book "Byrne's New Standard Book Of Pool And Billiards" and Bert Kinister's video "60-Minute Workout for 9-Ball."
Anthony Beeler's Virtual Billiard course. $500 for one year of instruction. You go through the lessons at your own speed using Google Classroom. Submit your videos on Facebook Messenger. He will evaluate and suggest improvements. He answers very quickly... usually within a couple of hours. Sometimes within minutes. Unless you submit at 2am that is.
Remember, he not only is training you mechanically, but also mentally. Do what he says even if you think it won't help. Keep your mind open.
Remember, he not only is training you mechanically, but also mentally. Do what he says even if you think it won't help. Keep your mind open.
Remember- you either must pay someone to WATCH you play and provide feedback- either in person or by video- and that person must be completely qualified and knowledgeable to give you the correct feedback- OR you need to continually videotape yourself and review it against bona fide, proven pool fundamentals either in print or on the internet.
Reading great instruction or watching great players is just not good enough for serious changes in pool fundamentals - you simply MUST have some sort of visual feedback on a continuous basis to truly improve to a much higher level. I have seen hundreds of players think that practice alone will fix their issues- most if not all of them just continue to practice the wrong things- digging a deeper hole until they just give up!
This probably is the biggest single reason truly professional pool is almost dead here in the U.S. IMO- the advent of tight pocket tables with deep shelf pockets and super fast rubber demand extremely consistent, repeatable, dead accurate stroking fundamentals- just like you see now in all the great European players. The Europeans all literally grew up in pool schools and junior leagues which are so scarce here.
Even most of the 600+ rated U.S. players cannot hold a candle to the same player ratings in Europe, bc the competition there is so much deeper and wide spread. Guys like Mosconi, Crane, Lassiter, they were super gifted in their time, and, yes, they were the best of their time. Like all sports, things are different now in pool- no one is going to get up today on natural talent alone and seriously compete on these tables - it takes serious, disciplined, organized, proper training today- and that seriously includes visual observation and feedback to gain correctness and consistency.
Reading great instruction or watching great players is just not good enough for serious changes in pool fundamentals - you simply MUST have some sort of visual feedback on a continuous basis to truly improve to a much higher level. I have seen hundreds of players think that practice alone will fix their issues- most if not all of them just continue to practice the wrong things- digging a deeper hole until they just give up!
This probably is the biggest single reason truly professional pool is almost dead here in the U.S. IMO- the advent of tight pocket tables with deep shelf pockets and super fast rubber demand extremely consistent, repeatable, dead accurate stroking fundamentals- just like you see now in all the great European players. The Europeans all literally grew up in pool schools and junior leagues which are so scarce here.
Even most of the 600+ rated U.S. players cannot hold a candle to the same player ratings in Europe, bc the competition there is so much deeper and wide spread. Guys like Mosconi, Crane, Lassiter, they were super gifted in their time, and, yes, they were the best of their time. Like all sports, things are different now in pool- no one is going to get up today on natural talent alone and seriously compete on these tables - it takes serious, disciplined, organized, proper training today- and that seriously includes visual observation and feedback to gain correctness and consistency.
Zerksies
Well-known member
I wouldn't say their is a one great all on fundimentals out there. Their is plenty of things that makeup good over fundimentals stance, grip, tempo, timing, bridge. I could honestly write and entire book and video series on funidimentals covering every piece of the puzzle.
This is not correct, a 600 is a 600 is a 600, no matter where or who they play, given just a tiny variety in who they play. It's not like saying a "good" player in NY is a "great" player in Boston, Fargo are hard actual numbers based on results, no matter who they play. If a 600 in US was being beat by someone from Europe, that person in Europe would be a 650, not just a "good" 600.
There have been a ton of posts and data to show how these ideas don't match, like when people were saying a woman 600 was worse than a man 600.
Think of it like the Scoville scale that measures how spicy something is, if something is rated 1,000 it's that level of spicy everywhere. We don't say "well it's 1,000 in the US but in Mexico it would only be a 700 because people there can handle spicier food".
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I disagree - simple logic- if Fargo is based upon results of play - then the general quality of play in a given geographic area simply has to matter in the formula. I am talking where the general quality of play is very significantly different- as is the case between U.S. and European players- the number of top pros from Europe vs. U.S. bears out the fact that Europe produces a much much higher general quality of pool play than the U.S.
Therefore a random batch of say 100 18-24 year olds in the U.S. who compete against each other and result in say 5 of them being rated 600- and a random batch of 100 18-24 year olds in Europe who compete against each other. - stands to reason that if the quality of play in Europe is much higher than the U.S. ( I doubt that can be disputed) than the players ranked in the 600s in Europe from that group will be better, in general than the U.S. players with the same Fargo ratings.
Would you say that the average Major League Baseball player is better than the average pro baseball player in Italy? Of course, because you are looking at a much higher of caliber player and competition in the U.S. MLB- a ...300 hitter in the MLB will, no doubt, in almost every instance, be a better hitter than a .300 hitter in Italy. - if both were matched against the same pitching - bc the MLB hitter faces much better pitchers than the Italian pro baseball league--- both batting averages are calculated with the same formula- just like Fargo -
Unless to try to play like the Syrian Sidewinder. Fundamentals that are completely against the grain, but it works for him.
Not matched against the same pitching - that is my point! The MLB has much better pitchers in general than any other foreign pro league - get it? IF you pitted most .300 hitters in pro leagues outside the MLB against MLB pitching - they would NOT be .300 hitters.
I am talking about pool players in Europe being better as a group than pool players in the U.S. So equal Fargo ratings will not mean equal skill levels - European skill levels will be higher -
Check out Barry Stark Snooker Coach on you tube.
He is good at explaining the fundamentals of cueing.
He is good at explaining the fundamentals of cueing.
YouTube has more chaff than wheat.
Paul Potier offers this. If you aren't familiar with Paul, he was a pro in the 90's and has done plenty of teaching since then.
I think it's best to get a couple of hours of in-person fundamentals check if you can. Among other things, the instructor will show you how to do effective video recording (to focus on flaws) and provide you with specific exercises and things to work on.
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Can you travel all the way to the local pool hall ? and ask them who they would recommend locally ??
If they are better they will have a higher Fargo rating as an average, not play better at the same rating. I'm sure they can get localized data to show things. It's very likely that the US has a huge majority of Fargo rated players under say 750, I have no idea what leagues or tournaments not in the US use Fargo. Here is the issue with the baseball analogy, if the pitchers are worse elsewhere, won't the hitters also be worse? Why would one side be better but the other be worse?
Very simple- Johhny plays pool in Europe competitively - he is a 600 Fargo. Johnny moves to the U.S., where players are not as good in general, Johnny plays U.S. 600 Fargo players- he beats them all easily- his Fargo in the U.S. suddenly jumps to 650- OK?
Billy plays pro ball in the Italian pro baseball league- his average is .300, The pitchers in the Italian pro league are no where near the quality of MLB pitchers. Billy has a trial against U.S. MLB pitching- odds are extremely high that Billy does not continue to hit MLB pitching at a .300 clip as his batting average just because he is now facing much tougher pitching at the MLB level.
When you have two areas of competitive sport, where the averages are computed by how participants fair against each other - the averages will generally not translate equally if you move a participant to a new arena of higher or lower competition. That is just basic logic.
Billy plays pro ball in the Italian pro baseball league- his average is .300, The pitchers in the Italian pro league are no where near the quality of MLB pitchers. Billy has a trial against U.S. MLB pitching- odds are extremely high that Billy does not continue to hit MLB pitching at a .300 clip as his batting average just because he is now facing much tougher pitching at the MLB level.
When you have two areas of competitive sport, where the averages are computed by how participants fair against each other - the averages will generally not translate equally if you move a participant to a new arena of higher or lower competition. That is just basic logic.
Thanks, All for your replies. I have realized that fundamentals are absolutely critical , if you want to go far in this great game. There is a lot
of conflicting info on youtube. Something as basic as the "stance" , can be a point of great contention between players, and teachers. When I have gone and watched a bunch of league players, most of them are really struggling with consistency in their fundamentals. The frustration is real, and has had me going back to just video recording myself with a singe ball, to improve mechanics.
of conflicting info on youtube. Something as basic as the "stance" , can be a point of great contention between players, and teachers. When I have gone and watched a bunch of league players, most of them are really struggling with consistency in their fundamentals. The frustration is real, and has had me going back to just video recording myself with a singe ball, to improve mechanics.