best stories about taking off a sucker

No, no, no, Sean, a sucker is: a slang term for someone considered gullible enough to fall for a very obvious prank or con and go about unaware of it.

Now think about this real hard Sean, the main reason they are gullible is because they assume something. They assume they have the nut in a bet and/or will gain big rewards with little risk. Can you understand that assumption is the first step to being a sucker.

If you know anything about the pool world you will realize that taking off suckers is something that just about every top pro has a story about. Go to CJ Wileys webpage and read the story about, DID YOU SEE THE MOVIE. Look up some of the Ronnie Allen videos where he talks about shooting air barrels or robbing people. And it does not just have to do with pool. Golf magazines have stories about hustlers taking off suckers on the golf course. My real estate friends have so many stories about making sucker real estate deals.

But yes, pool is stuck with the public perception of hustling and taking off suckers. It is not because of my thread, it is the way it is.

I find it hard to understand how I am glorifying this story when I use the term Vulture to describe the actors that were involved? That is your assumption, isn't it, even after I explained in my follow up post that it was not my intention of glorifying taking off suckers.

As far as knowing if the kid was forced to bring his money to the table. Hey, you are acting like a cheap attorney now, assuming things. All I did was relate the story from what I heard and saw.

As far as the Bernie Madoff example. I retired at age 40 from a very good career in real estate. I put my money in CD's, low return, low risk. No, I would have not invested with Madoff or the stock market. Yes, those suckers did not check out where their money was going, it is really easy to do.

You make alot of assumption. Figure it out, that is the first step to being a sucker.

You know, for someone who was successful in real estate for so long (supposedly), you sure missed out on 30 or so years of life lessons on what "morals" are all about.

I'll just bullet this out for you:

1. You use the title "best stories about taking off a sucker." Try and tell me that title alone is not glorifying these acts?

2. You begin this already-specious-sounding thread with your example of the poor kid losing his 4 years of tuition money, money that was most likely the life savings of his parents, as many parents do. (Yes, call that an assumption -- of it being the parents' life savings -- but what else is the readership supposed to think, when this is actually true in most cases?) Remember, you began and set the tone of your thread with this example. So this is your "best story" of taking off a "sucker"?

3. When called to the carpet about it (not just by myself, but by others here as well), you try and hide behind technicalities -- e.g. the use of the term "vulture" in your story. But just like how you glorify the term "sucker" (boy, you damn sure use it enough -- I wish I had a dime for every time you use it), you also glorify the use of the word "vulture." When reading your story, I certainly didn't take your use of the word "vulture" to be demeaning to the perpetrators of this act. I took it as just a token term "used in this profession."

4. You continue to hide behind technicalities, like saying those who call you out "make assumptions." Yes, and see? You just hinted at another aspect of your character. Those calling you to the carpet about glorifying this act assume people are basically good, unless demonstrated otherwise. You, on the other hand, assume people are basically bad, and just revel and roll around in it.

5. I knew you'd try and slink away from your own Bernie Madoff example. You give the air that you are "too smart" to fall for these mass frauds, that it's somehow "common sense" not to, when in fact part of the science of these frauds is how to convince folks with otherwise sound judgment to let their guard down and give in. It's called social engineering. And before you even attempt to counter this, please know this: if you've read any of my past posts on these boards, you'll know that my "day job" is in information security (I.T. security, to include securing a network's architecture, firewalls, honeypots, intrusion detection/prevention systems [IDS/IPS], vulnerability scans, ethical hacking, etc.). Part of the core of what I do is to study the enemy's tactics. And part of that is the study of social engineering, where all these system controls are bypassed by that one weakest element, the human him/herself. There are some pretty insidious "hacks" where people themselves are "attacked" and forced to give up sensitive information, like login credentials, etc. Part of my job is education -- helping people recognize those insidious hacks for what they are (many of them are truly ingenious), and how to thwart them. So believe me, a lot of those people you consider to be "suckers" -- merely because they fell for a scam, regardless of whether that scam was an ingenious or formidable one -- are actually some very intelligent people that just trust that others are inherently good people, and the attacker leveraged/exploited that good nature. I don't agree with your copious and diarrheal use of the word "sucker" at all.

I'm just getting started, but I'll pause and ask you -- shall I continue?

-Sean
 
This story starts out in 1975 and ends in 1984,


David Harcrow


Let me tell you MF'er's something, my story doesn't belong in this thread, so that's why I deleted it,I hope you MEMORIZED it, because it's the last one you'll get for awhile!

Like my Daddy always said "Get it or Fa Get it!"


David Harcrow:(


you hear me now!:o
 
I don't know one parent now or 20 years ago that gives a young kid his college tuition in full and says use this for your tuition bills for the next four years. That seems a little naive and unrealistic to me, no? How many parents trust their kids enough to give them 4 years worth of tuition and expect that is gets used for that? I don't have any kids but I would NEVER.
 
you hear me now!:o

Dave:

I remember your story before you deleted it. Actually, I enjoyed reading yours, because it was about a hustler getting hustled (i.e. getting a taste of his own medicine).

It's one thing if two evenly-matched combatants go at it and want to throw something on the line as a prize -- I'm all in favor of that, and subscribe to it. (E.g. sending admiration to the TAR folks). Also, it's one thing if someone with a loud mouth, woofing all over the place, "gets what he asked for." And, it's one thing when two combatants go at it, with/without a spot, to settle a score, or to see "who's the best" that day.

But it's quite another thing when folks are actively preyed upon, completely not in the know that they're about to get a guaranteed serious hurtin', and then the whole scam is glorified. For instance, that kid that lost his college tuition? As the OP put it, "about a total not-knowing-what-the-hell-is-going-on person getting taken for some cash" -- a kid playing pool for fun with his friends.

I don't think your story, Dave, is even close to being as scrupleless (and glorifying it to boot) as the OP's story. Like I said, I don't think folks here would think it was "bad" -- the opposite, really.

-Sean
 
Dave:

I remember your story before you deleted it. Actually, I enjoyed reading yours, because it was about a hustler getting hustled (i.e. getting a taste of his own medicine).

It's one thing if two evenly-matched combatants go at it and want to throw something on the line as a prize -- I'm all in favor of that, and subscribe to it. (E.g. sending admiration to the TAR folks). Also, it's one thing if someone with a loud mouth, woofing all over the place, "gets what he asked for." And, it's one thing when two combatants go at it, with/without a spot, to settle a score, or to see "who's the best" that day.

But it's quite another thing when folks are actively preyed upon, completely not in the know that they're about to get a guaranteed serious hurtin', and then the whole scam is glorified. For instance, that kid that lost his college tuition? As the OP put it, "about a total not-knowing-what-the-hell-is-going-on person getting taken for some cash" -- a kid playing pool for fun with his friends.

I don't think your story, Dave, is even close to being as scrupleless (and glorifying it to boot) as the OP's story. Like I said, I don't think folks here would think it was "bad" -- the opposite, really.

-Sean


The only reason David's story didn't fit is that there wasn't any sucker involved. Damned good story about two people that knew the score gambling.

A story that doesn't involve a sucker unless it was my fishing partner, my friend Hugh and I were headed out to do some nightfishing. Hugh and Hu(gh) was always confusing to people but I used to know four Daves that ran together!

Anyway, got to the fishing area before dark so a beer or three seemed in order while we waited for dark-thirty. Stopped at the local watering hole and someone came up wanting to play pool. I declined, I had fishing on my mind. Hugh went to play him and came back to the bar less than an hour later, busted. He asked me to go get his money back so I did. While I was at it I got a little expense money from the local shark. Then I got a little party money from him. We never did get around to fishing that night. We did do a little hunting though, at the local dance hall.

Hu
 
Sickening...

No, no, no, Sean, a sucker is: a slang term for someone considered gullible enough to fall for a very obvious prank or con and go about unaware of it.

Now think about this real hard Sean, the main reason they are gullible is because they assume something. They assume they have the nut in a bet and/or will gain big rewards with little risk. Can you understand that assumption is the first step to being a sucker.

If you know anything about the pool world you will realize that taking off suckers is something that just about every top pro has a story about. Go to CJ Wileys webpage and read the story about, DID YOU SEE THE MOVIE. Look up some of the Ronnie Allen videos where he talks about shooting air barrels or robbing people. And it does not just have to do with pool. Golf magazines have stories about hustlers taking off suckers on the golf course. My real estate friends have so many stories about making sucker real estate deals.

But yes, pool is stuck with the public perception of hustling and taking off suckers. It is not because of my thread, it is the way it is.

I find it hard to understand how I am glorifying this story when I use the term Vulture to describe the actors that were involved? That is your assumption, isn't it, even after I explained in my follow up post that it was not my intention of glorifying taking off suckers.

As far as knowing if the kid was forced to bring his money to the table. Hey, you are acting like a cheap attorney now, assuming things. All I did was relate the story from what I heard and saw.

As far as the Bernie Madoff example. I retired at age 40 from a very good career in real estate. I put my money in CD's, low return, low risk. No, I would have not invested with Madoff or the stock market. Yes, those suckers did not check out where their money was going, it is really easy to do.

You make alot of assumption. Figure it out, that is the first step to being a sucker.

Prisons are full of conmen who hold the same view of their marks. "They deserve it for being vulnerable." Find me a judge or a respectable member of society who agrees with that view... I bet you can't.

Finding other examples of scummy people in pool, golf, etc. does not excuse the behavior of those you are glorifying. You argue that you aren't glorifying after you find out that you misread your audience (i.e. we aren't amoral sociopaths) - I find that to be yet another act of moral cowardice (at least own up to the obvious). I guess I shouldn't be surprised as real estate is not a very respectable field in most cases - fast money for "professionals" who took a 2 week course and got liscensed. New money is always the worst.

FYI on Madoff: when a money manager is reporting and performing and his or her paperwork checks out then their customers are not suckers.. they are victims. A majority of his business was institutional investors and a majority of victims were the people who live on a fixed income and trusted their 401K managers to do their jobs. No comparison.

I would expect you to argue about how much you know about Madoff but the issue is you just admitted that all of your retirement cash is in CDs which shows that you understand investment as well as you understand morals. Maybe you "assumed" that they are the right way to go. ;)
 
The only reason David's story didn't fit is that there wasn't any sucker involved. Damned good story about two people that knew the score gambling.

A story that doesn't involve a sucker unless it was my fishing partner, my friend Hugh and I were headed out to do some nightfishing. Hugh and Hu(gh) was always confusing to people but I used to know four Daves that ran together!

Anyway, got to the fishing area before dark so a beer or three seemed in order while we waited for dark-thirty. Stopped at the local watering hole and someone came up wanting to play pool. I declined, I had fishing on my mind. Hugh went to play him and came back to the bar less than an hour later, busted. He asked me to go get his money back so I did. While I was at it I got a little expense money from the local shark. Then I got a little party money from him. We never did get around to fishing that night. We did do a little hunting though, at the local dance hall.

Hu


Hu, that was a good one!:smile:


David Harcrow
 
I've already said I think these people were scum, but attacking the guy who started the Thread is ridiculous.

Let change up the story: what if the kid took the pimp for a large sum of money. Is everyone OK with that ending? And, if so, why?
 
I've already said I think these people were scum, but attacking the guy who started the Thread is ridiculous.

Let change up the story: what if the kid took the pimp for a large sum of money. Is everyone OK with that ending? And, if so, why?



The best story I know about a total not knowing what the hell is going on person getting taken for some cash.

Moyers pool hall, Austin, Texas, 1970's. Some new University of Texas student is hanging around Moyers pool hall just playing pool for fun with friends. This place had plenty of vultures hanging around 24 hours a day.

A vulture starts talking to this mark in a friendly manner and they sort of make friends. The mark starts visiting Moyers on a regular basis to hang out with his new so called friends. The vultures find out that he has $20,000 in cash for his four years of college. Somehow his poor parents saved up the money and gave it all to him when he started at UT.

The mark notices that his new friends are gambling at pool and making money. He finds this exciting but has no pool skills so the vultures are not able to rope him into a pool game.

But, they tell him about playing craps. Back on a nine foot table, next to the golf snooker table they start playing craps late at night and let the mark win a few hands. "He is a natural, a born crap player, nobody can beat him". That is what they tell him.

Hey kid, there is a pimp that comes in here that plays for thousands and if you bring your cash here, show him you have some money, you can win a million dollars off of this guy.

Sure enough, the pimp shows up, silk suit, a couple of girls with him that looked like hookers and he was waving wads of cash around.

They set it up and the kid gets his cash out of the bank and they go at it.
(revision starts here)
I think it took about thirty minutes for the kid to lose his first 10K. All of the vultures in on it were pushing him to bet more, bet higher, that was just a bad roll, you will get it back, your a natural. I saw times where the kid should have won the hand but the pimp would swipe up the dice and say he lost and the kid had no idea what happened.

Then the kid started winning a little. Soon he had the pimp on the ropes and the vultures betting against him catching a big hurting too. When it was all over he had busted the whole damned place! Keith McCready left town with a big grin on his face and "the college boy" was never seen again, at least not in that town. :thumbup:

Now we have the would be hustlers losing everything, a happy ending, and a forum favorite in the story. Justice of a sort prevailed too. I think almost everyone will like this ending much better. Sounds at least as likely as the original version too.

Hu-
 
The bottom line is that the title of the post was not ment to condone taking off suckers. If you check out the number of views you will see that it got alot of hits. It got peoples attention. It appears to be what AZBILLIARD people wanted to read about.
 
I've already said I think these people were scum, but attacking the guy who started the Thread is ridiculous.

Let change up the story: what if the kid took the pimp for a large sum of money. Is everyone OK with that ending? And, if so, why?

Gmanpoke:

I think if we just read the responses to this thread, it can be agreed (just based on the folks that chose to respond, anyway) that the general consensus is that the folks who perpetrated this are indeed thought of as being scum. I don't think that's in doubt.

I do agree with you in that I and others were harsh in "lighting up" the OP. But I think what's being lost, is not so much that he created this thread (which indeed got a lot of attention), but rather the tone in which he did it -- the downtrodding of the victim (calling him a sucker, even though he was singled out and attacked, rather than "getting what he asked for") and the seeming glorifying tone (e.g. "tee hee -- isn't this cool?") he portrays the perps. He then went on to explain in follow-up posts that "all" people who fall for scams (like those perpetrated by the Bernie Madoffs of the world), are "suckers" and "they're born every minute." Therefore, the attention he got, he attracted.

As for the ending you propose, according to the story as told by the OP, since this kid was just out playing friendly games of pool with his friends (i.e. he wasn't going around looking for action, or running his mouth, or anything like that), and was singled-out by the perps for no other reason, sure, I'd say your proposed alternate ending would've been deserved justice. I would've loved to have heard that the real "suckers" are the ones who thought they had an easy bloodmeal, but instead were squashed like a mosquito.

-Sean
 
The bottom line is that the title of the post was not ment to condone taking off suckers. If you check out the number of views you will see that it got alot of hits. It got peoples attention. It appears to be what AZBILLIARD people wanted to read about.

cesarmorales:

You say, "...was not meant to condone taking off suckers," but in another post you say several times that "suckers are born every minute," and say that folks who fall for scams are "suckers," no matter what the scam is (and even offered the insidious Bernie Madoff pyramid scheme -- one in which the victims were completely shielded from possibly even knowing the whole thing was a scam -- as an "example"). So, I hate to continue on with this, but you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. And, concerning the number of "hits" on the thread, thousands of other threads on here -- about hundreds of other topics not even related to this one -- have large hit counts, so that's a wash. You're grabbing at straws now.

However, Gmanpoke is right -- I will say that I've been unusually harsh on you in this thread, and for that, I humbly apologize. As you can see by other posts from other members in this thread (those that chose to speak up), I'm not the only one who thought the way I do about the way in which you framed your thread. If you'd have titled the thread, "cruelest stories about folks being roped in for large sums of money" and then positioned your story without the use of the word "sucker" (and especially without the subsequent posts defending your stance that people who fall for any scam are suckers and suckers are born every minute), you would've gotten an entirely different response. I'm sure of it.

So with that, I apologize to you. I won't post in this thread any more.
-Sean
 
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