best tournament format???

Actionhound

Banned
i have been asked for advice on this from a local room owner who wants to have a tournament that anyone can win, not just a certain handfull of players, what is the best format for a tournament like this? myself i prefer a even race but a short race, keeps the "bangers" from winning, but the best player doesnt always have to win.

what are your thoughts??? handicap the race???
 
If you want anyone to win you must handicap using a ball spot in 9ball.

We have found in our handicap tournament that game spots do very little to help (same players win) and shorter races are not enough to help the real weak players (even fewer players win).

We have a rating system where players are given a number (highest is best) then the separation between the numbers decides the spot.

1 - Last 2
2 - Call 8
3 - Call 7
4 - Call 6
5 - Call 5
6 - Call 5 + BKS
.....

This can go all the way up to 5&OUT and the breaks.:eek:

It can be frustrating to play in these, but makes the field very level if you get a good rating on a player. Our scale is -7 to +7.
I have won at a +6 and we have had players win at -4.

Makes everyone feel good to win once an a while.:D
 
Tournaments

1) Shooters used to have a 1,2,3 handicap tournament, and start it at
10 pm at night. I was a 3, but sometimes those 1's will bang in the 9, or get a combo on the 9 and beat you. Not a bad tournament, 5 or 10 dollar entry,
16 or 32 players.

2) 2 of our Pool rooms are using a National handicap system originated by
Bob Jewett, but they tweak it some. Handicaps run from 1 to 160.
New players start at 70 unless known to be better, then a little closer to what they would be. 8 ball races run from 2-6, 9 ball 3-7.

Two even handicaps play a 2-2 race in 8 ball, 3-3 in 9 ball.
19 is the cutoff they use, so someone say at 75 playing a 100 handicap would play a 2-3 race in 8 ball, 3-4 race in 9 ball.

Player A = 55, player B = 95, 2-4 race 8 ball, 3-5 race in 9 ball.
Player A = 60, Player B = 138, 2-6 race 8 ball, 3-7 race in 9 ball.

How you get raised depends on each match won vs lost, and whether you placed in the money (spots 1-4, I believe), or lowered depends on matches lost.

Not bad system other than some people get going up and up until they are above their true skill level and they can not win anymore if they make 1 mistake the whole night. Handicaps go down a lot slower than up.
(When players that get handicaps above their skill level and can not win anymore, they quit playing in the tournament because they are there for a shot at the money, not just to practice).

It could be tweaked to be more fair to all. The way it is now, after awhile, the ones that when are the 70-80 range (progresses towards the middle of the pack for a winner). I won the tournament years ago the second time I played it, and my handicap jumped 18 points. The system is too reactive
to winners (first 50 matches, 3 points for each match won in the money, 2 points for 51-299, and 1 point for >300)

Plus I might add that some players that never win, gradually get handicaps below their skill level, and knock off the big handicaps, but get beat by someone a lot closer to their own handicap most of the time.

I was going to TD for this type of tournament and was going to refine and tweak the handicap system some to be more realistic (meaning not getting handicaps outside of your skill range), but someone else became the TD.

Besides playing for 46 years, I have a heavy math background from college, so tweaking the system wasn't a big deal for me, but I put it aside after not being designated the TD for the tournament.

The game difference is a lot easier to manage than the ball, break spots type, and simplier to administer.

I am 'Old School' though, and I don't believe in punishing better players because they 'worked' to get as good as they are.

Therefore, for any type of handicap system, I believe the 'lessor' player has to play 10% better than average before they could win, so I guess, you could say I believe in the 90-10 rule. (We used to call it stepping up).
 
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i agree with you, i wish all the tournaments were even races, but the owner of the poolroom asked me to try and figure something out to get poeple to play other than the best in the area, he wants a bigger turnout and wants to see anyone be able to win so he wants a handicap of some sort.
 
I Don't Qualify For EITHER Group

Play two tournaments simultaneously, one for the 'good' players and one for the lesser players. Same entry fee, same rules, same races on winners & loser's sides.

Pay the top 2-3 places (or more) in each tournament and the winners of each tournament play each other for the main cheeeeeeeese.

Doug
( water and poolplayers seek it's own level )
 
Snapshot,

Do you find in the Jewett system that anyone can win?

I also perfer the game spot because it takes alot of the ball spot luck away, but we have found that game spots cannot provide enough weight.

I am one of best players at our tournament a I can say that half of the players could not win a 3-7 race 9 ball and never a 2-6 race 8 ball. Not that I play all that strong, but they play bad.

It is really hard playing the 5&OUT 9 ball knowing after the 4 ball if you hang 1 ball you loose. Or the player breaks and has 5 balls to make combos.

I could not agree more about the 90 - 10 rule, but in our area we have to get all the players out that we can including the ones who are not very good.
 
kryptonite9 said:
... Do you find in the Jewett system that anyone can win? ...
The spots are games on the wire. In the long run, each player is guaranteed to be 50-50 in wins/losses. The systems is designed to try to make every match a 50-50 proposition, and I think it's pretty close.

It's up to the TD to pick the largest spot. For example, I used to allow 10-2 matches in the league I ran (and I lost one such match 0-2). Unless you have a huge range in your players' abilities -- say Efren and Helen Keller -- 10-2 will be enough to make a competitive match. Other TDs prefer to limit the max handicap to 7-2. In that case, there will be more not-quite-fair matches, but if you use the system for adjusting ratings, players will still come out close to 50-50 records over all.

The hardest part is picking the initial ratings. People will complain about them. After a few weeks of competition, the ratings will settle down.

For more info, see

http://www.sfbilliards.com/NPL_info.txt

http://www.sfbilliards.com/argonne8.pdf

http://www.sfbilliards.com/14.1_charts.htm

and the articles about handicapping among

http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/BD_articles.html

and post questions here.

A lot of good players figure that they should still have an advantage in a handicapped tournament. The "NPL" system won't do that unless you modify it. One way to give an advantage to the top players is to have a "Masters'" event each quarter with added money and a 50% handicap (just divide the rating difference by 2 before calculating the spot). Another is to have a scratch tournament for anyone who plays frequently in the handicapped events.
 
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