BHE vs Regular (Parrallel) english

nfuids

nfuids

eh?
Silver Member
Is it just me, or most people are not aware of Back Hand English and just plain deny it works? I mean lot of (older) players just won't stop telling me (or other people I showed BHE) it's not the right way to apply english.

Do you guys use BHE or you use regular parrallel english most of the time?
 
Regular English

nfuids said:
Is it just me, or most people are not aware of Back Hand English and just plain deny it works? I mean lot of (older) players just won't stop telling me (or other people I showed BHE) it's not the right way to apply english.

Do you guys use BHE or you use regular parrallel english most of the time?
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I have found that what is referred to as Parallel English is usually not and all of the types of English applications are at the root related by varying degrees of aiming the cue to the side, even with what is called Parallel English which usually is not done by moving the butt of the cue over at all. To answer your question I use Regular English, FHE and BHE depending on the shot at hand.
 
I use BHE exclusively, been playing with the same cue with standard shafts over a decade. It helps. I have tried LD-shafts but cannot aim with them :)
 
A lot of people are unaware of it.

I call parallel english shifted english because you are never actually parallel to the center ball line of aim. The shift to apply english taking squirt into account always puts the cue line crossing the center ball line of aim. Parallel is the wrong term because it describes something that is not actually done in practice except for a very small amount of situations where it can actually work.

I use BHE exclusively. Works well for me. And yes while some old timers have insisted it's no good some others have told me that it's a perfectly good way to play.

My opinion is do whatever works to get the success you want and drop what doesn't.
 
I've been playing with an LD shaft lately, but sometimes I play with one of my regular shafts as well and when doing that I just use BHE and give some extra thought to my bridge length when doing it and it is amazing how well it works for me even without a ton of practice.

I can't imagine why anyone would want to discount BHE....some shots seem way more natural to me using BHE and a regular shaft than doing a mostly parallel shift with just a touch of BHE english on my LD shafts (because I don't want to shoot with a bridge length long enough to all for true BHE on that shaft)
 
I use BHE and agree with you. Many don't know what it is, tell me I am using swipe english, tell me it is the wrong way to use english, or are amazed I made the shot.

When I explain and show it to people, they can't accept it because it is not intuitive. However, I can usually get most to use and accept FHE. Of course there are some that can't accept anything other than english is some kind of mystical thing that can only be controlled or predicted by the experts.

Too bad they cannot turn off their brains, just do it, observe how the CB reacts and accept the results.

For my cue BHE works better than FHE.
 
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If someone is actually really using truly parallel english, they must be missing a lot.

BHE works, whether people want to believe it or not.
 
I tend to use more FHE for short, light shots and BHE for harder longer shots. Combo the two as needed for everything in between.
 
The differences between Regular and BHE

SamLambert said:
If someone is actually really using truly parallel english, they must be missing a lot.

BHE works, whether people want to believe it or not.
Click to expand...

I play with different cues from time to time. With my cue I use a lot of Regular English but with a heavier thicker shafted cue I'm BHE most all of the way. I don't think anyone is playing with truly parallel English, they just think they are.
 
336Robin said:
I play with different cues from time to time. With my cue I use a lot of Regular English but with a heavier thicker shafted cue I'm BHE most all of the way. I don't think anyone is playing with truly parallel English, they just think they are.
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Oh well yeah of course you don't have to use BHE, but the technique itself, with FHE, work pretty well.
 
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Sure does

SamLambert said:
Oh well yeah of course you don't have to use BHE, but the technique itself, with FHE, works pretty well.
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Absolutely,
I do like my cue and Regular English for playing One Pocket though. I tried playing One Pocket with BHE and found it unfamiliar on some shots but for rotational games and 8 ball I have no problems with it. Some shots in One Pocket I haven't been able to convert to BHE just yet.
 
Thanks y'all for the answers, I knew I wasn't wrong, but I missed arguments to defend my opinion!
 
The best spin shot

Probably the most impressive Spin shot I ever made under pressure was a BHE shot. It was an impossible looking back cut on the 9 ball to win a tournament match from about 6 diamonds away. I put it in like I was born to but I haven't shot that same shot in a long time. From what I remember I didn't make much of an allowance at all and spun the cue ball like crazy and it just went right in. One of my best matches against a good player.
 
I just discovered BHE and FHE a couple weeks ago. I've been working with it and have found a few things to be rather interesting:

1. It works a lot of the time and makes my make percentage go up on many shots.
2. For higher speed shots, with inside english, I'm finding that BHE isn't quite canceling out all of the throw, so I miss a lot of them on the short side. Don't seem to have a problem with outside english, so maybe it's just a comfort level thing... still have work to do.
3. For my cue, I need a slightly longer bridge length for FHE to work than I use for BHE.
4. Probably the most important thing I've realized is that it's not for every shot (for me). There are just some shots that miss, over and over again, with BHE. However, when I forget about all that and shoot it as a feel shot, the ball just goes into the hole more easily.

Overall, I really like the more calculated approach that BHE and FHE allow me to take... Especially on many of the more difficult (high speed, high spin) shots. I don't get to play more than 1-2 days a week, so my touch and feel will be on and off, as expected. However, with BHE and FHE, things seem to be a bit more reliable on an "off day." I'm all for anything that will help improve consistency.

For someone like me, feel isn't always spot-on... but 2+2 will always equal 4. I like that.


Cheers,

Mike
 
BHE is for shots without a lot of curve like shots with not much distance between cue ball and object ball and firmer shots. Parallel english is for shots where the curve and throw cancels out the squirt, which occurs a lot more often than people are aware of and can be utilized very effectively on slower speed shots and shots with a lot of distance between cue ball and object ball once you get a good feel for it.
 
parallel english is not regular english...

nfuids said:
Is it just me, or most people are not aware of Back Hand English and just plain deny it works? I mean lot of (older) players just won't stop telling me (or other people I showed BHE) it's not the right way to apply english.

Do you guys use BHE or you use regular parrallel english most of the time?
Click to expand...

Regular english is just feel based aim adjustment. It is vastly inferior to BHE IMO... With LD shafts, people use an approximation of parallel english although it still needs some adjustment.

It's funny Ra Hanna had asked why so many of the Europeans (it's not just Euros) are gripping the butt of the cue farther back now.

The answer is that either consciously or automatically as they play with LD shafts, there is a tendency to bridge farther back due to the increased length of the cue's natural pivot point and to maintain the optimal stroke, you have to grip farther back on the butt with a longer bridge.

It's funny how for so long, recommended optimal bridge length just happened to coincide with the average pivot point length. The truth is it didn't just happen to do anything.

BHE has the ability to help correct stroke flaws (swooping and what not) so bridging at the cue's pivot point was the ideal position. So as we get lower squirt shafts, the ideal bridge position and therefore the ideal butt grip location has to be pushed back.

Jaden
 
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uhh idk

I just get down on every shot with the English needed in mind. all the while focusing on the object ball. I don't use pivot length or anything but since I hold my cue in the same position I guess you could call it pre shot FHE? Its not something I really worry about because I use an LD shaft and If I have to play off the wall or something I just use the ferrule to reference contact points with english.
 
What's so different with LD shaft as oppose to regular shaft? I only used LD shaft (314-2, z2 and now the vantage, all from predator).

I understand regular shaft have more deflection/squirt, so I guess using "regular" english is harder, hence BHE brings most pros for regular shaft.

With LD shaft, is BHE still good? Good, but less good than regular shaft, or simply not good at all?
 
BHE is based on PP...

nfuids said:
What's so different with LD shaft as oppose to regular shaft? I only used LD shaft (314-2, z2 and now the vantage, all from predator).

I understand regular shaft have more deflection/squirt, so I guess using "regular" english is harder, hence BHE brings most pros for regular shaft.

With LD shaft, is BHE still good? Good, but less good than regular shaft, or simply not good at all?
Click to expand...

BHE is based on a cue's natural pivot point.

For BHE to work, the cue must be lined up for a straight shot and then pivoted over for the type of side spin you want from the cue's natural pivot point.

Cue's with lower deflection have a natural PP that is farther back from the tip along the shaft.

For a standard shaft the NPP (natural pivot point) falls between 8-12" typically. For a LD shaft it can fall from 14-18 or even 19".

I have mine marked and it's at about 14-15" I didn't actually measure it because it doesn't really matter for play as long as you know where it is.

It helps to raise and lower your bridge for follow and draw to keep the cue as parallel to the playing surface as possible to avoid swerve as much as possible.

There are variables that still have to be adjusted for. Softer struck shots tend to have CIT and aim has to be adjusted accordingly.

For the vast majority of shots, a pivot point bridge along with lowered and raised bridging for follow and draw will allow BHE to accurately adjust for side spin.

I must have told this story 50 times on here, but I was showed BHE by Efren back in 99' and I didn't believe it worked even though it was Efren telling me about it.

I didn't even TRY to use it for three years until after a conversation with my friend Chip Klein.

I've since learned and figured out a lot more about it, but that initial discussion with Efren and Alex (not Pagulayan) was what started me down the BHE rabbit hole and I couldn't be happier today.

Jaden

p.s. If you watch some of my matches on youtube, you may notice that I look at my cue before I bridge and step into the shot. What I'm doing is aligning my front knuckle of my bridge with the point I have marked on my shaft with a sharpie.

Having a single point marked on the shaft ensures that you're not only bridging from the cue's pivot point, but that the orientation of the cue remains the same from shot to shot.
 
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