Bill Mcdaniel

R

raemondo

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi guys,

Can someone please unravel for me the mystery that is Bill Mcdaniel --- why is it that I constantly see his beautiful cues on dealer sites and on ebay for low prices considering the craftsmanship, but I never hear anyone talking about him or his cues? Is this purely an isolated demand and supply issue or is there something about his cuework that I should know? I must say, I like his cues, but have never heard about how they hit before.

Any BM collectors out there???
 
I hit with two cues that looked identical, and also hit identical.. I really really liked the way they hit myself.
 
raemondo said:
Hi guys,

Can someone please unravel for me the mystery that is Bill Mcdaniel --- why is it that I constantly see his beautiful cues on dealer sites and on ebay for low prices considering the craftsmanship, but I never hear anyone talking about him or his cues? Is this purely an isolated demand and supply issue or is there something about his cuework that I should know? I must say, I like his cues, but have never heard about how they hit before.

Any BM collectors out there???
Click to expand...


Yes, he makes the best hitting cues on the market today IMHO. They seem to hold there value very well. I am a collector and have many of his cues. I really don't think people give him his due though. Nick Varner, Karen Corr, Rodney Morris, Ginky San Souci, Santos Sambajon, Ismael Paez, and many other professional players have all played with Bill's cues at one time or another. Usually it is in between contracts when they can choose what really feels best to them. If it weren't for endorsements I think you would see many more players on the McDaniel team. I have never heard anything bad about his cues. I have been thoroughly pleased with everything I have received from him.

Thanks!
Anthony
 
Anthony_Beeler said:
Yes, he makes the best hitting cues on the market today IMHO. They seem to hold there value very well. I am a collector and have many of his cues. I really don't think people give him his due though. Nick Varner, Karen Corr, Rodney Morris, Ginky San Souci, Santos Sambajon, Ismael Paez, and many other professional players have all played with Bill's cues at one time or another. Usually it is in between contracts when they can choose what really feels best to them. If it weren't for endorsements I think you would see many more players on the McDaniel team. I have never heard anything bad about his cues. I have been thoroughly pleased with everything I have received from him.

Thanks!
Anthony
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Last I heard Morro still plays with one of his cues. A roadplayer friend of mine had one that he loved but it got stolen.

-Andy
 
they might be buying 'em, but they may not be postring here at AZB. i think most people at AZB play with mali's,,,the really bright red ones.
 
I miss my MALI

I sold my MALI a few years back. It was the special edition red one that all collectors are dying to get their hands on. I regret letting it go now.

Laffin

PAt
 
obrien714 said:
I sold my MALI a few years back. It was the special edition red one that all collectors are dying to get their hands on. I regret letting it go now.

Laffin

PAt
Click to expand...

hasty decision, my friend. and see where you are now? like maybe $80 poorer.
 
See, I think that's the thing....those BMs just might not have the resale value. Why you do guys think this is the case? I've seen a couple BM cues that are IMO, gorgeous, with snakewood, inlays, multiple points and lizard wraps....and it always seems to me that they come at a very competitive price. Also, I noticed that the same guy always seems to be selling BM cues on ebay!

I see you guys complimenting on the BM hit...what does it approximate to?
 
raemondo said:
See, I think that's the thing....those BMs just might not have the resale value. Why you do guys think this is the case? I've seen a couple BM cues that are IMO, gorgeous, with snakewood, inlays, multiple points and lizard wraps....and it always seems to me that they come at a very competitive price. Also, I noticed that the same guy always seems to be selling BM cues on ebay!

I see you guys complimenting on the BM hit...what does it approximate to?
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i have no personnal; experience with them so i don't know. phillippi is the same. maybe in this business where everyone is trying to outdo each other,,and an overabundance od new cuemakers, you have to be extraordinary in some way. maybe mcdaniels and phillippi haven't created an ultimate cue to anchor their line by.

since so much is perception, maybe these two need a magnum opus,,,,,that draws stares. if you compare, for instance these maryland cuemakers(of whom scruggs is the most venerable) with the men from southern california, the maryland guys have little say in terms of personnal style.

of the well known, most enduring cuemakers, these guyz are the most conservative. even a conservative cuemaker like mottey throws out a flashy cue now and again.

then you have hercek, szamboti, and tascarella, who are conservative, but have the "blood line". some cuemakers never reach that plateau,,,that giant next step. tibbits comes to mind, although i don't know what his resale value is. for lack of a better description, ncdaniels and phillippi are extremely knowledgeable and competent, but lack PUNCH.

i don't know what their latest works are like, but i'd say they are overall very non experimental. there's a fancy dennis searing over at "cue gallery" that is not fancy but very elegant in its use of colors. i don't think mcD or phillippi tread those waters
 
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Agree with a lot of what bruin has said. Perception is one of the most important things. The big name cuemakers are masters at managing their perception.

Most folks probably know that we buy cues from Bill and have a very high opinion of him. That said, I'll try to give an honest opinion of his work based on the questions in this thread. One thing that has probably caused there to be questions about his market and resale perception is that several years ago he got away from spliced points and went strictly with inlaid, CNC points and a limited standard line of cues. He would rather re-build the same model cue and change up the materials in it. It has been a long time since a completely new cue design was done...I think the last one was his 'Lazy Z' cue. My thoughts are that over time, this may have created a perception of making 'production models' instead of truly 'custom' cues. I do not agree with this but feel these thoughts may be out there.

With that in mind, my honest opinion of Bill's work is that no one out there is building a more consistent playing cue than him. His construction is flawless. His materials, especially his shaft wood, are some of the best out there period. The tolerances on his inlays are so fine that it takes high magnification to find any subtle imperfections or gluelines (that's if any can be found). Another thing that will blow your mind about Bill's work - instead of scrimming or engraving the black peacock outlines inside the ivory, that is real ebony. In other works, it's an inlays inside of the peacock inlay....not the cutter bit creating the outline then filling it with ink or black glue like almost everyone else does.

No one puts more into getting a cue perfect that Bill does. He is extremely picky and wants the work in a cue he's making for a customer to be PERFECT. If something (the smallest thing) goes awry with a cue, he chucks it and redoes everything. You should see the stuff he has trashed...it would blow your mind.

Hopefully Bill will get back to making spliced veneer points that he made in the 1970's and 1980's. They were among the best that has ever been done and very few people know that about Bill's past work.

All of that being said, if you get a chance, look at the quality in one of his 'Lazy Z' cues. You will not find more work and better quality in a cue for the same kind of money....it's impossible.

IMO, Bill McDaniel is a very under-appreciated cuemaker.

Sean
 
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Well put, Sean.
I have hit with Bill's cues and they hit great! Although I consider him a true custom cuemaker (and this may sound like I'm contradicting myself), I don't like the fact that he throws out the same designs. I like the fact that I have a few cues that no one else has when you show up at a large pool hall in a large city. You can't necessarily say that with Bill's cues, even the high end stuff.

Second hand, you can pick up a nice 4 pointer for under $1000 if you have a little time for one to pop up.
 
cueaddicts said:
Agree with a lot of what bruin has said. Perception is one of the most important things. The big name cuemakers are masters at managing their perception.

Most folks probably know that we buy cues from Bill and have a very high opinion of him. That said, I'll try to give an honest opinion of his work based on the questions in this thread. One thing that has probably caused there to be questions about his market and resale perception is that several years ago he got away from spliced points and went strictly with inlaid, CNC points and a limited standard line of cues. He would rather re-build the same model cue and change up the materials in it. It has been a long time since a completely new cue design was done...I think the last one was his 'Lazt Z' cue. My thoughts are that over time, this may have created a perception of making 'production models' instead of truly 'custom' cues. I do not agree with this but feel these thoughts may be out there.

With that in mind, my honest opinion of Bill's work is that no one out there is building a more consistent playing cue than him. His construction is flawless. His materials, especially his shaft wood, are some of the best out there period. The tolerances on his inlays are so fine that it takes high magnification to find any subtle imperfections or gluelines (that's if any can be found). Another thing that will blow your mind about Bill's work - instead of scrimming or engraving the black peacock outlines inside the ivory, that is real ebony. In other works, it's an inlays inside of the peacock inlay....not the cutter bit creating the outline then filling it with ink or black glue like almost everyone else does.

No one puts more into getting a cue perfect that Bill does. He is extremely picky and wants the work in a cue he's making for a customer to be PERFECT. If something (the smallest thing) goes awry with a cue, he chucks it and redoes everything. You should see the stuff he has trashed...it would blow your mind.

Hopefully Bill will get back to making spliced veneer points that he made in the 1970's and 1980's. They were among the best that has ever been done and very few people know that about Bill's past work.

All of that being said, if you get a chance, look at the quality in one of his 'Lazy Z' cues. You will not find more work and better quality in a cue for the same kind of money....it's impossible.

IMO, Bill McDaniel is a very under-appreciated cuemaker.

Sean
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Well said Sean! Thanks for some inside information on my favorite cuemaker. I played with one of Bill's cues a few years ago in Valley Forge and I instantly fell in love with the hit. The cue that I later ordered from Bill played just like the cue that I played with at VF. I can't really explain why I like it. I like the weight/balance/feel/feedback of the cue. Bottom line...the cue ball goes where I expect it to go CONSISTENTLY. Lucky for me, the use of ebony and ivory is very appealing to me, since his cues tend to favor those materials.

As a comparison, I've owned cues from the following makers over the years (in order from most previous to first cue)...

Nova cue
Paul Mottey cues (2 different models)
Philipi cue
Judd custom cue
Mali
Meucci
Dufferin
$6 dollar from yard sale w/ screw-in tip :eek:

There have been many debates and discussions about cue "hit" and playability on this board and others. It is a VERY subjective thing. A good hitting cue to me may be an undesirable hit to others. I would STRONGLY encourage anyone that is going to spend significant money on a cue to try hitting with one beforehand. Maybe even hit with a few different models from the same maker, if possible. Shows/tournaments like Valley Forge provide an ideal forum for doing so.

All that being said, I totally agree with Sean's statement about Bill's high quality standards. Based on that and my limitted discussions with Bill, he seems to be much more concerned about the quality and "hit" of his cues than about becoming rich by making cues. For me, I'm GLAD he continues to do what he does. I hope he continues to make cues for many years.

As far as holding their value. It will be hard to get a lot of money by reselling one of Bill's cues for a couple reasons.

First, he sells them kinda cheap, compared to the quality of work IMHO. So, why would I buy new when I could afford a new one.

Second, the fact that he generally makes the same models over and over again, may make it a little harder to resell, since the cue that you own isn't a "rare/one-of-a-kind" design.

One more thing to consider... If for some reason Bill stopped making cues (God-forbid), I know the value would keep going up. I am supremely confident in that!!
 
raemondo said:
Hi guys,

Can someone please unravel for me the mystery that is Bill Mcdaniel --- why is it that I constantly see his beautiful cues on dealer sites and on ebay for low prices considering the craftsmanship, but I never hear anyone talking about him or his cues? Is this purely an isolated demand and supply issue or is there something about his cuework that I should know? I must say, I like his cues, but have never heard about how they hit before.

Any BM collectors out there???
Click to expand...

Personally, I've never heard any bad things about Bill's cues or Bill for that matter. Everyone I've every talked to said his cues hit great, and, every one I've ever seen was first rate as far as workmanship is concerned. Not really sure why his stuff is not more popular.
 
i also think the "maryland guyz" suffers from knowing each other too well.

phillippi and mcD. i've already talked about. joss...they're old and square and haven't changed in decades. scruggs...clearly the leader. black boar...they have an identity crisis. i thought they folded, in fact. i could never figure out if they were schon-like or more custom. i think it's the name. it sounds generic. sigel,,,i don't even want to talk about.

it's like a group, and they all belong to the same club
 
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cueaddicts said:
Agree with a lot of what bruin has said. Perception is one of the most important things. The big name cuemakers are masters at managing their perception.

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No one puts more into getting a cue perfect that Bill does. He is extremely picky and wants the work in a cue he's making for a customer to be PERFECT. If something (the smallest thing) goes awry with a cue, he chucks it and redoes everything. You should see the stuff he has trashed...it would blow your mind.

Hopefully Bill will get back to making spliced veneer points that he made in the 1970's and 1980's. They were among the best that has ever been done and very few people know that about Bill's past work.

All of that being said, if you get a chance, look at the quality in one of his 'Lazy Z' cues. You will not find more work and better quality in a cue for the same kind of money....it's impossible.

IMO, Bill McDaniel is a very under-appreciated cuemaker.

Sean
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if bill is meticulous, and is particular about what he sends out, and he does what you say, then it sounds like he doesn't turn out as many cues as he could. if that's the case,,,and he creates very traditional designs, then i don't see the point of owning a cnc machine either.

if you're going to use a cnc machine, use it for something that would be difficult or time consuming to do....or if you intend to produce lots of cues. doesn't sound like bill is doing any of these. it DOES sound like he's doing repetitive designs with the cnc, which in your judgement, has hurt his business model.

there's a market for "hand made", as it were. he should do what most others can't
 
bruin70 said:
i also think the "maryland guyz" suffers from knowing each other too well.

phillippi and mcD. i've already talked about. joss...they're old and square and haven't changed in decades. scruggs...clearly the leader. black boar...they have an identity crisis. i thought they folded, in fact. i could never figure out if they were schon-like or more custom. i think it's the name. it sounds generic. sigel,,,i don't even want to talk about.

it's like a group, and they all belong to the same club
Click to expand...

FYI...Bill McDaniel works out of Jackson, TN
 
Bill's work is the best

I have owned many many cues: Coker, Southwest, Omen, Dishaw, Schon, and Pechauer and NONE of them have playability, hit and feel of my McDainiel. I know many of you are in love with the Southwest, but for me the McDainel cue plays a lot better. The craftmanship that went into my custom one of a kind McDaniel cue is the best i've seen. I don't think you can't go wrong with one of them. As for why they don't have the resale, i'm not sure. Thanks,
 
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