Billiard taper and closed bridges

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papercut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Some definitions so as to be clear:

Pro taper -- refers to shaft that is equal in diameter in the bridge area.
Billiard taper -- refers to shaft that decreases in diameter (i.e. conical) in the bridge area with the minimum at the ferrule.

First of all, forgive any repeat of a thread regarding this...my search didn't turn up anything that helped me.

To those who play with a closed bridge and have experience with a billiard taper and pro taper, could you please state your preference and explain why? I'm starting to buy into this minimized deflection argument with billiard taper but worry how it would feel with a closed bridge. Do any pros play with closed bridges and billiard tapered cues (besided 3 Cushion players)? I don't readily have access to a billiard tapered cue to feel the difference.

Thanks, guys!
 
I can't stand a billiard taper with a closed bridge. As I play most shots with a closed bridge, I have all my shafts custom turned to a pro taper. I've got a bit of a long bridge, so all my playing shafts have a 15" pro taper.

The specs on my shafts are a 12.1 mm tip, 15" pro taper. I tried a friend's cue, who has a slightly smaller tip and a semi-billiard taper that grows through the bridge area. Though it remains small enough to be similar to what I'm used to in my personal shafts, the increase in shaft size as it stroked through my closed bridge was a little uncomfortable. As my bridge is very firm, it definitely inhibited my stroke a bit.

When you say you believe in the minimized deflection with a billiard taper, are you talking about cue ball deflection (i.e. squirt) or deflection of the tip. The taper will have no effect on the amount of cueball squirt (only shaft endmass does, which is only indirectly affected by taper).

S.
 
Thanks a bunch for your feedback. Looks like my topic wasn't one that was terribly popular.

Anyway, yes, I'm under the impression that a billiard taper allows a stiffer shaft and hence, less deflection. Honestly, I admit my ignorance on the topic. With that said, I really wanted to keep the thread to a discussion on how a billiard taper feels with a closed bridge rather than stiff vs whippy shaft, predator Z vs 314, etc.

Again, thanks. I play probably 50/50 open/closed bridge so I'll tread carefully with regards to a bililard taper until I can get an opportunity to try one out.
 
An interesting topic...I play pool and billiards and do have to force me into using an open bridge more often in 3c in order to get my stroke range out.

And...have used the 3c cue for pool & did not like it at all. Also, have used the pool cue for 3c & did not like it at all!
 
Do a quick search on deflection, and you'll come to understand that how "whippy" or "stiff" a shaft is has nothing to do with how much the cueball squirts. The shaft's flexibility does not seem to correlate with cue bakk deflection / squirt.

Regarding Predator shafts (314 and Z) people consider them to play fairly stiff, just FYI.

Everyone's different, so make sure to go test a few different tapers until you find one that suits your game. Who knows, a billiard taper might be just perfect for you, but you won't know until you try. I've got a friend who is a cuemaker and a while ago I gave him a shaft that I wanted to experiment on. .. I wanted to try a super long pro taper and a 12.1mm tip. Turns out it was a risk that paid off great; I've been giving him a lot of my old shafts to re-taper and I'm shooting better than ever.

Cheers,

SW

papercut said:
Anyway, yes, I'm under the impression that a billiard taper allows a stiffer shaft and hence, less deflection...
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papercut said:
Thanks a bunch for your feedback. Looks like my topic wasn't one that was terribly popular.

Anyway, yes, I'm under the impression that a billiard taper allows a stiffer shaft and hence, less deflection. Honestly, I admit my ignorance on the topic. With that said, I really wanted to keep the thread to a discussion on how a billiard taper feels with a closed bridge rather than stiff vs whippy shaft, predator Z vs 314, etc.

Again, thanks. I play probably 50/50 open/closed bridge so I'll tread carefully with regards to a bililard taper until I can get an opportunity to try one out.
Click to expand...

I've been curious about this same topic. From the research I have done, it is the end mass of the shaft, the weight of the end of the cue, that most influences the amount of deflection a shaft produces.

I think that is why the "low deflection" shafts have shaft ends that have been lightened in one manner or another. Notice also that the Predator Z shaft, and the McDermott I-3, to name two, are small diameter shafts. Weight can be removed from the end of a cue by reducing shaft diameter also, which also will lower deflection.

The less the end of the shaft weighs relative to the cue ball, the lower the deflection will be. Stiffening the shaft will not decrease the lateral force the shaft places on the cue ball, even though it may decrease the amount of lateral motion the shaft experiences from forces exerted by the cue ball.
 
I use a Predator Z shaft with a closed bridge and don't seem to have any problems with it. The minute increase in shaft diameter from the beginning of my stroke to the final resting place when I finish is really negligable and not even noticable.

-Matt
 
MattRDavis said:
I use a Predator Z shaft with a closed bridge and don't seem to have any problems with it. The minute increase in shaft diameter from the beginning of my stroke to the final resting place when I finish is really negligable and not even noticable.

-Matt
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Thanks, Matt.

Predator Z is exactly the cue I'm looking into. Thanks for the response. I wouldn't have thought the shaft diameter changes would be that material unless one has a really, really long stroke. Looks like I need to try before I buy, however, given the varying feedback.
 
I have a Predator z-shaft with Moori soft tip. I find that the 11.75 tip is too small. The shaft helps to create great spins but is too sensitive for an average player. The slightly increasing diameter of the shaft doesn't bother me much but I prefer pro-taper anyway. My favorite shaft is OB-1 which I just got with Sniper tip 12.75 and a WOODEN ferrule. This shaft is a lot like 314 but it has a much better feel to it. You can get it custom made to a smaller diameter up to 12.25 which would increase its spinning properties. Just another option.
 
i just ordered an ob-1, but he said he made them all 12.75.......i asked about getting it smaller. Maybe because i ordered the 30" one, he uses the larger diameter taper so it wont be whippy? I bought a set of verniers so i could measure the shafts i had and get the exact right size of the ones i played best with, great investment if youre particular about your equipment.
 
Wolven said:
I have a Predator z-shaft with Moori soft tip. I find that the 11.75 tip is too small.
Click to expand...

You know, I hated the tip at first, too. It is definitely something that takes hours of practice to adjust to, but I've found it's increased the control I have over the cue ball and the amount of spin I can get on softer shots.

I'm definitely not a pro player, I'm about an APA 5, so, the idea that it's only for people who have an excellent stroke and superb control is a bit misguided. I think, as long as you give yourself time to adjust to the different taper and tip size, you'll shoot just about as well as you do now, but with more practice you'll realize the different effects you can put on the cue ball with minimal effort.

In short, I'd say that the Z shaft has definitely improved the control and speed issues I had, and made me a somewhat better player... although I suspect that might just be all the practice.

Take care,
-Matt
 
The Z shaft does not have a conical taper. Its taper is strong but it is not completely conical. In my opinion, it is more like a snooker taper, not billiards taper.

Pro taper does not usually have the same diameter around the bridge area, it may have a slight incriment all the way down the shaft.

Sarah Rousey plays with a Z Shaft, why don't you ask her about this in her section?

Richard
 
nipponbilliards said:
The Z shaft does not have a conical taper. Its taper is strong but it is not completely conical. In my opinion, it is more like a snooker taper, not billiards taper.

Pro taper does not usually have the same diameter around the bridge area, it may have a slight incriment all the way down the shaft.

Sarah Rousey plays with a Z Shaft, why don't you ask her about this in her section?

Richard
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Could you explain what you mean by "its taper is strong" and being more like a snooker taper? Given that snooker cues end at 10mm and Z shaft ends at 11.75mm, this seems to imply to me that the taper converges faster (i.e. more conical) on a snooker cue than billiard cue. Am I understanding you correctly or do I have it backwards? Thanks for the insight. From my perspective, the less "conical" it is (i.e. more pro taper like), the more I imagine the closed bridge feel would be unaffected.

Thanks for the tip with Sarah.

Thanks to all for the great insight on this thread.
 
papercut said:
Could you explain what you mean by "its taper is strong" and being more like a snooker taper? Given that snooker cues end at 10mm and Z shaft ends at 11.75mm, this seems to imply to me that the taper converges faster (i.e. more conical) on a snooker cue than billiard cue. Am I understanding you correctly or do I have it backwards? Thanks for the insight. From my perspective, the less "conical" it is (i.e. more pro taper like), the more I imagine the closed bridge feel would be unaffected.

Thanks for the tip with Sarah.

Thanks to all for the great insight on this thread.
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Well, there is a bit of give on the taper, that is what I am talking about.

In my opinion, the taper is very important to the hit and the feedback, so I would worry about that before I worry about whether it will affect my loop bridge. I am sure you can adjust to it if you like the way it hits.

I really think you should ask Sarah about the pros and cons of the Z shaft.

Richard
 
Perhaps he no longer makes different diameters. Too bad I think a smaller diameter could be better.
 
MattRDavis said:
You know, I hated the tip at first, too...

I miss too many easy shots. You are right the z-shaft is superior in its performance cuts, precision, spins, but I just cannot play with it.:) I will play with ob-1 and 314 shafts for a while and once I can play with those well perhaps switch to z-shaft. As a point of refference per each 10 games(8-ball on 9-ball table):
Normal shaft: 1x8,2x6or7, many 4or5 ball runs.
With z-shaft 3 table runs in a month, 4 balls are a major accomplishment.
ohh, well... but thanks:)
Click to expand...
 
MattRDavis said:
I use a Predator Z shaft with a closed bridge and don't seem to have any problems with it. The minute increase in shaft diameter from the beginning of my stroke to the final resting place when I finish is really negligable and not even noticable.

-Matt
Click to expand...

the 'billiards' taper (as in 3cushion billiards) is completely different from any 'pool cue' taper. A true billiards taper results in an increasing diameter starting about 1/2" from the ferrule...it is truly like a cone.
 
Z shaft has a very mild taper. Not even close to carom or snooker cues. You can use long closed bridge, no problem at all. For the original poster...Fabio Petroni of Italy plays with that shaft...
 
papercut wrote:
> To those who play with a closed bridge and have experience
> with a billiard taper and pro taper, could you please state
> your preference and explain why?


I played with two billiard tapered cues for decades, and it wasn't until recently I got a pro tapered one (which is now my main cue).

And yes, I've always played with a closed bridge -- that's the way they taught me as a kid.

And no, I've never had any problems with a closed bridge when playing my billiard tapered cues.

In fact, I just shortened the ferrule on my pro taper shaft to a puny 8mm (squirt issue) and I'm also debating to taper it off to a billiard 12mm (it's currently a pro 12.8) -- just to make it more like my old billiard tapered cues.

So to answer your question, I have never had any problems playing with billiard tapered cues using a closed bridge (but of course that's me, being one of them kooky Euro guys..).

-- peer
 
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