Billiard Tourney Questions ?

[MikeJanis]

Deno, we just moved and set up a billiard table at the Pool Room in Duluth, Ga. (You will be happy to know that this is the Non-Smoking room.)

My questions are:

Is there a tournament format we can use that would cater to the players but only allow us to use our one and only billiard table ?

If we do a tourney should we use handicaps or leave it open ?

What would a typical entry fee be for a local billiard tourney ?

If we were to run a singles league on this table is there a basic handicap system we should use ?

Do you have any suggestions ?

Thanks,

Mj

 

[Bob Jewett]

...
Is there a tournament format we can use that would cater to the players but only allow us to use our one and only billiard table ?

One format that could work is to play in groups of three as round robins. You have only three matches per group. The winner goes on to the next level of play. In the first round, say A plays B. In the next round, C plays the loser of A and B. That makes sure that the final match is important. If you set the match length to take about an hour, you can accommodate a many as six groups of three in a weekend. Two groups on Friday, four on Saturday, and then six players into the finals on Sunday in two groups of three to a single finals.

If we do a tourney should we use handicaps or leave it open ?

If you can get enough players, leave it open. Once you have some match scores you can figure out handicaps if you start to lose the weaker players.

What would a typical entry fee be for a local billiard tourney ?

$10 to $40. Do you want cash prizes? Greens fees? If you could get 18 players at $25 each, that could be $450 in prizes to the finals: $160, $90, $50 or 3/4 and $40 for 5/6.

If we were to run a singles league on this table is there a basic handicap system we should use ?

The standard is to have players play to a certain number of points. The top player might be a 20, and the other players go down from there. 5 is a good minimum. Adjust the handicaps according to wins/losses.

Make sure you send info about the room to the USBA so it can go on the (free) list of rooms with carom tables. www.usbilliardassn.org

 

[Deno J. Andrews]

Hi Mike,

I ran once a very successful format here in Chicago on one table. There were about ten regular players and four or five occasional players. I set up a Round Robin with everyone in one main group. We basically had a league that took 18 weeks to complete. There were two nights a week for league play where groups of three of the players would come in to play each other. The odd man out kept score for the two who were playing. We kept inning averages which is very important. I think we charged about $10 per player per night played, plus table time.

At the end of the league we distributed the prize money to the top third of the field. However, we had established averages because each game was 30 innings rather than points. With established averages we were able to very accurately assign handicaps. With the handicaps we ran a single elimination handicapped event with a $50 entry fee. I have always disliked handicapped events for the reason that they don't really reward players for the right reasons. However, having both the league which rewarded the best players, and then the handicapped tournament, was sort of the best of both worlds. The league was very successful in keeping the table busy during a slow season. I would encourage you to try this method to build up a nice customer base.

Deno

 

[Bob Jewett]

... We kept inning averages which is very important. ... With established averages we were able to very accurately assign handicaps. ...

I think this will work in a situation where people don't try to "game" the system, but....

In this area, there was an Elks leage in which players had established averages and you played to your average (for about 40 or 50 innings). The problem was that some of the old codgers had discovered that if they never tried for a shot, their averages would be real low and they could easily beat anyone who tried to score most of the time. I played several matches under that system, and it was the worst kind of billiards I've ever played. I didn't come back.

It's a lot easier to move people up or down depending on whether they win matches or not. 1/5 of a point per match won or lost is about right. Just keep ratings to one decimal point and then have the players play to their rounded-down rating.

 

[Deno J. Andrews]

If you are paying the top third of the field only after 18 weeks of play...you are not going to find many players dumping because they will have given away too much money in prize contributions and table time after the season to try and make it back in a single day, single elimination tournament in which nobody is obligated to play.

There is nothing wrong with a floating handicap system if you are in to that sort of thing. My feelings are that handicapping players is a way to crush any form of competitive learning and to blur the lines about average and ability. I mean the goal of a realistic handicap system is to get everyone as close to winning 50% of their games as possible. To me, this is counter intuitive if you are trying to learn how to play well. It rewards people who lose with an easier chance at winning next time and it penalizes those who win. I think it sends the wrong message. I don't see how everyone having the same chance to win a game is virtuous. But then again, I am not one that likes to play billiards for fun but rather as a competitive challenge.

I suppose there is a place for floating handicaps as a way for people to enjoy the game and each other. I guess it depends on what the purpose of the tournament or league is. If competition is the goal, handicaps are useless IMO. If the purpose if fun, then they are probably mandatory. I don't think that the two should be mistaken.

Deno

 

[MikeJanis]

Deno and Bob, thank you both for your suggestions.

As a player I tend to lean towards no handicapps. On the other hand as a person trying to establish a regular customer base for the Carom table the Hcp's seem to be a necessary evil.

If possible could you please forward to me or let me know how to get league score sheets and anything thing else you think I could use to run a small league with.

Please excuse me for my ignorance about the game of billiards but could you also refer me to a link to the rules, equipment specifications and conduct codes.

Also, after we get some players established through a league or tourneys is there anything thing I can offer them so they can go to another level of competition? Things such as: Can we run an in-house qualifier to be able to send a player or several of them to a larger regional or national event?

Any additional information is appreciated.

Thanks for your help,

Mj

Ps. We have also set up the 12' Snooker table with Hainesworth cloth in the Duluth location. Can anyone recommend a tourney/league format we could use for that table?

 

[Bob Jewett]

... If possible could you please forward to me or let me know how to get league score sheets and anything thing else you think I could use to run a small league with.

I think all you need is:

Name --- Rating --- Playing to --- Score

with one line for each player. If you have them play to their rating, you don't need the "playing to" section. I recommend against trying to count innings, but I suppose you could leave a space for innings and another for Per-Inning Average as optional for those who would like to establish an average.

Please excuse me for my ignorance about the game of billiards but could you also refer me to a link to the rules, equipment specifications and conduct codes.

Please visit the USBA website. The USBA is the US national organization for carom billiards. There is a section on rules there.

For equipment, you should know that international rules require the slate bed to be heated, but you need to go with what you have. Get Aramith balls. If you want to be fancy, get the spotted balls. In any case, get the white, yellow, red set. No one uses the white, spot, red any more.

Conduct.... touching any ball is a foul. Players are expected to calls fouls on themselves. Those who don't are considered cheats.

Also, after we get some players established through a league or tourneys is there anything thing I can offer them so they can go to another level of competition? Things such as: Can we run an in-house qualifier to be able to send a player or several of them to a larger regional or national event?

There are qualifiers for the Nationals. The next nationals will probably be in California in late January or early February. If you want to hold your own qualifier, you need to have at least 8 players. You have to forward $500 with the name of the winner to the USBA. $300 is for his entry fee, and $200 will be returned to him for expenses.

The just-completef Nationals were in Miami. Mazin Shooni won. He had a run of 18.

The National champion and the runner-up get to play in the World Singles Championships and the World Pairs Championships. Both of those will be in Europe this time.

Ps. We have also set up the 12' Snooker table with Hainesworth cloth in the Duluth location. Can anyone recommend a tourney/league format we could use for that table?

The USSA (United States Snooker Association) may be able to help with that. They have a web site.