Book to learn 3-cushion systems

martincab

martincab

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I'm spanish native, i live in colombia, please forgive me any language mistake.

This is my first post, i want to give my congratulations to Deno and all the members for this very nice forum.

I love 3-cushion game, my current average is about 0.6, i started to use the "corner five system", with very good results, however i have found some positions where this system is not the best choice to resolve a carom. i'm looking for a book or resource where I can learn something about other systems. in Amazon i have found a book named "A Billiard Atlas on Systems and Techniques", Volume III by Walter Harris, please give me an advice if this is what I want or you know a better resource.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Martin
 
Welcome to the forum! The corner five system is the basis for nearly every decent system. The reason why you are finding positions where the system fails is because you probably didn't learn the proper adjustments. Your best bet is to wait until near the end of this year when Raymond Ceulemans' book "Mr. 100" is re-published. His system is the very best and all the adjustments are explained as well as positions. Of course you could try to find an original of this book, but the cost is greater than $500. In this regard, it is probably worth waiting a few months.

AS far as the Harris books, they have lots of information in them. The drawback is that each page is a new system and sometimes there is a lack of information regarding adjustments. At your average though, you are already a good player, so you should have no trouble learning how to adjust the systems. But in my opinion, it is worth learning the Ceulemans methods because they are the best and most detailed.

You can find the news here when it comes out:
http://www.raymondceulemans.com

If you would like to post some specific shots you are having trouble figuring out with the system, you can use this tool:
http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/caromtable.html

Just place the balls and lines and then click the button "COPY" and then you can paste that code into a post here and I can see the shot and make comments. I would be more than happy to do that for you.

Best regards to you and all my billiard playing friends in Colombia,

Deno Andrews
 
I will wait for Mr. 100 Book

Thanks for your advice Deno, definitively I will wait for Mr.100 Book.

One of the caroms I'm having trouble figuring out is this (I hope to have used the graphic tool correctly):

START(
%BP5H5%CD4D6%EU0E0%GG1D1%Ht1D9%If4C4%JU3E9%KP6H5%Q[8_0%eA6a2

)END

Is posible to apply some system to calculate that kind of "reverse english"?

Regards,

Martin
 
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iBienvenidos a nuestros casa! Creo que su Engles es mejor que mi Espanol...

Deno, would you shoot the WEI'd shot like that, or would you suggest either a center-right, 12 ball hit to the top rail, coming slightly short into he side before the red? Or, how about letting the stroke out and going 25+ feet (around the table 2x) 7 or 8 rails?
 
Black-Balled said:
...
Deno, would you shoot the WEI'd shot like that, or would you suggest either a center-right, 12 ball hit to the top rail, coming slightly short into he side before the red? Or, how about letting the stroke out and going 25+ feet (around the table 2x) 7 or 8 rails?
Click to expand...

It seems both options has a good chance of kisses or they don't?.
 
martincab said:
It seems both options has a good chance of kisses or they don't?.
Click to expand...

I would think that the around the table one, you are probably right. I don't think going to the top and spinning around kisses, though you are a more accomplished player than I, so I better take your advice.

You would shoot the reverse shot, as WEI'd before, for your $?
 
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martincab said:
I... i started to use the "corner five system", with very good results, however i have found some positions where this system is not the best choice to resolve a carom. i'm looking for a book or resource where I can learn something about other systems. in Amazon i have found a book named "A Billiard Atlas on Systems and Techniques", Volume III by Walter Harris, please give me an advice if this is what I want or you know a better resource.
...
Click to expand...
Robert Byrne's books have quite a few 3-C systems including maximum english systems, the "opposite 3" system, dead ball systems, etc. He has a lot of other info on 3-C as well, and his books should be in your library. His discussion of the corner-5 system includes the allowances that must be made according to the cue ball's starting location, which are the so-called "Seattle Kid's allowances."

As Deno mentioned, Walt Harris's books lack a lot of details that may take you a long time to learn on your own. What we need is an annotated set of those books. Harris still sells his books (#1 - 4) directly. He has a website.

Many people who have worked with it like the book by Murat Tuzul, which is available on the net for about 45 euros plus shipping. It is in several languages including Spanish. Look for "Tuzul Billiard Systems" with google. I have a copy but haven't had time to read it. It is said to allow you to measure a table with a few shots so you can compensate for cloth/cushion changes.
 
Martin, and others,

The use of the graphic is perfect. The shot charted is difficult to figure out using a system because you have a wide range of choices of thin or thick hit. I think the easiest way to make is with a fuller hit and less english. It makes the red ball a much bigger target if the cue ball is staying near to the rail. Try the shot with and high ball and only one tip of english and a fuller ball. Of course, when you get good at the shot you are going to use the right speed and hit on the first ball to bring it back to that cushion for position play...and use whatever english you might need. It is no use to only make this shot, you must try for position on such an easy shot. There are two other shots to try in this position, but neither are as good as the one you charted.

Since your shot is the best, I will call these two shots 2 and 3:

Shot 2- Shoot slowly and roll the ball. This is a good position shot if the red is a little more out of the corner. Also, it is a defense shot if you miss. Just make sure to use speed not to leave a tickie or a bank!!!
START(%BP5H5%CD4D6%EU0E0%GC4G3%HJ1[3%IT0C5%JT4D7%KP6H5%Q[8_0%eA6a2%_l7D2%`r4D6%aU9E4)END

Shot 3- This shot is very easy on new cloth.
START(%BP5H5%CD4D6%EU0E0%GC4W6%HJ1[3%It9B9%JU4E8%KP6H5%Me9[6%Ns9N0%Oa3C4%PB9W2%Q[8_0%UF3F0%Ve3[7%eC6a3)END

Wei table here:
http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/caromtable.html

Deno Andrews
 
Black-Balled said:
I would think that the around the table one, you are probably right. I don't think going to the top and spinning around kisses, though you are a more accomplished player than I, so I better take your advice.

You would shoot the reverse shot, as WEI'd before, for your $?
Click to expand...
The shot that is charted is the right shot in that situation. There is no chance of a kiss unless the shot is really mis-hit.
Deno
 
martincab said:
I'm spanish native, i live in colombia, please forgive me any language mistake.

This is my first post, i want to give my congratulations to Deno and all the members for this very nice forum.

I love 3-cushion game, my current average is about 0.6, i started to use the "corner five system", with very good results, however i have found some positions where this system is not the best choice to resolve a carom. i'm looking for a book or resource where I can learn something about other systems. in Amazon i have found a book named "A Billiard Atlas on Systems and Techniques", Volume III by Walter Harris, please give me an advice if this is what I want or you know a better resource.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Martin
Click to expand...

Hello Martin !
Try this site http://www.latiendadelbillar.com/ !!!!
Being Spanish as you are you'll be amazed at the mass of books ( and videos, etc. ) you 'll be able to buy there and...enjoy the price !
I buy a lot from them even though I live in Rome ( Italy ) ...
Ciao
Franco
 
Interesting site, easysmile.

Since you live in Italy, maybe you know where to get an instructional video or matches of the 5 pin game played on a carom table. I'm hoping that maybe there is an english language version somewhere by a top player like Zanetti. Kazoom.com has a dvd by Caudron in both french and english on three cushion,balkine,etc... maybe something similair is available on the five pin game.

Thanks.
 
bud green said:
Interesting site, easysmile.

Since you live in Italy, maybe you know where to get an instructional video or matches of the 5 pin game played on a carom table. I'm hoping that maybe there is an english language version somewhere by a top player like Zanetti. Kazoom.com has a dvd by Caudron in both french and english on three cushion,balkine,etc... maybe something similair is available on the five pin game.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Hi Bud !
As far as know there is no english version of any of the many existing ( but written in italian ) books on the 5-pin or 9-pin game.
But since I've noticed a certain interest from some of you on this game, give me a few days to prepare and I'll try to tell you something on it, regarding the rules and the most typical shots.
BUT it is essential that I can post some drawing, in order to explain concepts...
SO, just to verify if this is possible, I' ve just tried to attach to this post a drawing of a table with the posistion of the pins in it....but I' ve been told that I have to reduce the size of my image to 100kb....and this I' ll do .....later !!
So give me time and I' ll be back !
Ciao
Franco
 
By the way.....
Marco Zanetti, third place yesterday at Barendrecht ( Nederlands )3-C Tournament ( see http://www.umb.org ) started playing carom when he was 5-6 years old, taught by his father who was - and had been for many times - Italy Champion .
Started with straight rail and now only plays 3-C carom.
He sometimes has won a championship of a so called "biathlon", where two games are played : " italiana" ( 5-pin game ) and 3-C carom, but this type of tournaments are very rare even in Italy.
So far he hasn' t written any book on billiard ( to my knowledge..).
I' ll be back when I' ll have reduced the size of my drawings....
Ciao
Franco
 
Thanks, easysmile.

Books in Italian would be too much work for me right now but a video of top players would teach me quite a bit by just watching. Any ideas on where to get a video of a championship?
 
bud green said:
Thanks, easysmile.

Books in Italian would be too much work for me right now but a video of top players would teach me quite a bit by just watching. Any ideas on where to get a video of a championship?
Click to expand...

Bud, I sent you a message some days ago...
Did you receive it ?
Bye
Franco
 
Sent you a pm, easysmile.

Wine harvest is still going so I have been too busy to keep up with pool. Two more weeks and then its over and I'll have some free time.
 
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