Bottom of ball aiming

rhatten

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This ought to add some confusion.. (lol) sorry Patrick! (post 61) for butchering your diagram but... "T.O.I." with proper pocket target selection has been 'the nuts' for me for many years. I tried to copy/paste and edit Patrick's image... I think the attachd files are more visible... (I'm new to posting images on AZ... sorry)

Bottom, Top, Side of ball are the same of me when I use 'T.O.I.' and line up as described in the bottom image.

picture.php


picture.php
 

Attachments

  • Image-0460.jpg
    Image-0460.jpg
    31.9 KB · Views: 359
  • Image-0461.jpg
    Image-0461.jpg
    49.8 KB · Views: 367

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
rhatten,

I just took one look & you are not doing at all what CJ Wiley is advocating.

What you are doing is using a touch or more of inside english. They are not the same thing as far as intent.

If one would mis aim or mis-hit the cue ball, one could turn into the other.

How ever they are different, especially with regard to the intent.

Regards &
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
When you calibrate the "Touch of Inside" it will be contacting the CENTER pocket

rhatten,

I just took one look & you are not doing at all what CJ Wiley is advocating.

What you are doing is using a touch or more of inside english. They are not the same thing as far as intent.

If one would mis aim or mis-hit the cue ball, one could turn into the other.

How ever they are different, especially with regard to the intent.

Regards &

You're right, Rick, anyone that does this will be overcutting a lot of shots. When you calibrate the "Touch of Inside" it will be contacting the CENTER of the pocket consistently.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
use the Bottom of the ball for aiming you will find it necessary to use the shadow

This ought to add some confusion.. (lol) sorry Patrick! (post 61) for butchering your diagram but... "T.O.I." with proper pocket target selection has been 'the nuts' for me for many years. I tried to copy/paste and edit Patrick's image... I think the attachd files are more visible... (I'm new to posting images on AZ... sorry)

Bottom, Top, Side of ball are the same of me when I use 'T.O.I.' and line up as described in the bottom image.

picture.php


picture.php

This isn't correct for the Touch of Inside technique (it's certainly not good for slow speed shots). The thread is about aiming at the bottom of the ball and in this diagram you would aim the center of the tip ( the center of the cue ball) at the RIGHT SIDE OF THE SHADOW {located at the bottom of the ball}.

If you are trying to use the Bottom of the ball for aiming you will find it necessary to use the shadow of the ball. That's how it's actually done and it is very effective, especially on long shots, close to a "Half Ball" angle.
 
Last edited:

rhatten

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wow... Ok thanks.. I guess I need to look into CJ's work sometime. I just saw the shorthand 'TOI' being mentioned in another post and didn't realize it was trade marked, Sorry CJ.

I guess what I meant was (for lack of better terminology) I use a "bit" of inside in my address to the OB contact point thru the CB using the Aim lines as referenced in the second image, The original images are not mine and I could not demonstrate the correct cue alignment either.

The nice thing is it seems to work *(for me)... maybe its just me... top of ball, bottom of ball, OB contact point all seem to work when in line w 'T2.5-T3ish'... a lot of times I get away with hitting the OB a little fat.. like for shape purposes or even a "missed" OB contact point. But if I align/aim the shot the same it seems pretty consistent. Granted when I started breaking it down it took a while to get the feel down from what I was used too but nice feather to add to the cap.

The objective of the original exercise was that I was trying to get away from having to 'throw the OB' (.. with a T.O.O.... of 'outside') into the hole to cancel the OB induced throw. So I just changed the shot address a little to offset the need to have to spin the CB. Thats all. It seems to have opened up a lot more options for me

Just saying... Different strokes for different folks I guess.

I was really just wanting to see if my new Snag it program would let me edit and post an image (I've never posted a image on AZ..) So I'll get out of ya'll's way... Thanks for the heads up,

R
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
rhatten,

I was just trying to clarify. Sorry if I came across poorly.

I have been doing what you are doing for many, many years. I even went to it exclusively for a period of time after I injured my eye, as it seem to work better for some time.

But it is involving a cut to the over cut side of the pocket & using the cut induced throw in conjunction with inside english throw to 'push' the ball toward the opening of the pocket from the 'aim' point.

That is the opposite of CJ's TOI where the 'aim' point is the full hit side of the pocket & then use a TOI to Squirt the CB so that more cut is added which sends the OB toward the opening of the pocket.

The first method works better with soft to medium speed. While CJ's method works better with firm to 'faster' speeds.

I did mean to come off poorly. I apologize if I did.

Regards &
 
Last edited:

rhatten

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was just trying to clarify. Sorry if I came across poorly.

I have been doing what you are doing for many, many years. I even went to it exclusively for a period of time after I injured my eye, as it seem to work better for some time.

That is the opposite of CJ's TOI....

I did mean to come off poorly. I apologize if I did.

Regards &

Funny.. But I know exactly what you meant. Sometimes its clear as mud. :wink:


The interesting thing here gor me is that you mentioned about your injury... I have had a detached retina in my right eye where I now have zero viability in my upper left quadrant (ie no light like a blind spot) mapped almost exactly like the shape of a piece of pie. I know if I don't force my self to be Left eye dominate when I aim, I know for sure that I'm 'feeling' for the shot. I'm normally right eye dominate ie for shooting guns and lining up objects at or below center field of vision... Interesting..

Maybe that is my work around (in pool) for shots above center field of vision. Now (last 5 years or so) when I address a shot my stance includes my chin very close to my cue making the aim line i mentioned in the image always in my upper field of vision (above center of my eye). This forces me to use my left eye to aim with which seems unnatural to my 'right brain'. Burning it in took awhile but as humans we all have to work around our limitations... I don't even want to talk about my back issues.

As for as chasing out shadows to aim at, I'm having issue finding them being consistant with differences between the 5000 lumen florescent flood lights like in Diamond lights and those 3/4 spot light pool lights in some modern pool halls. Maybe its just me but I think shadows lie depending on the source light... just my opinion.


That being said .. no need to apologize to me. I realize I'n way out of my league in 'these parts'.

Back to shooting the bottoms off of the balls.. :bash:
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
players you have been struggling to beat will have a "big surprise"

Wow... Ok thanks.. I guess I need to look into CJ's work sometime. I just saw the shorthand 'TOI' being mentioned in another post and didn't realize it was trade marked, Sorry CJ.

I guess what I meant was (for lack of better terminology) I use a "bit" of inside in my address to the OB contact point thru the CB using the Aim lines as referenced in the second image, The original images are not mine and I could not demonstrate the correct cue alignment either.

The nice thing is it seems to work *(for me)... maybe its just me... top of ball, bottom of ball, OB contact point all seem to work when in line w 'T2.5-T3ish'... a lot of times I get away with hitting the OB a little fat.. like for shape purposes or even a "missed" OB contact point. But if I align/aim the shot the same it seems pretty consistent. Granted when I started breaking it down it took a while to get the feel down from what I was used too but nice feather to add to the cap.

The objective of the original exercise was that I was trying to get away from having to 'throw the OB' (.. with a T.O.O.... of 'outside') into the hole to cancel the OB induced throw. So I just changed the shot address a little to offset the need to have to spin the CB. Thats all. It seems to have opened up a lot more options for me

Just saying... Different strokes for different folks I guess.

I was really just wanting to see if my new Snag it program would let me edit and post an image (I've never posted a image on AZ..) So I'll get out of ya'll's way... Thanks for the heads up,

R

No problem, this topic has been discussed on hundreds of threads and many are using it and understanding it better now. We all have slightly different perceptions, however, addressing the ball slightly to the inside seems to work for everyone that commits to using it for an extended time.

The TOI is more than just "cuing" to the Inside, it's a advanced and effective technique that's very intimidating to play against.

I've been filming a video on the subject this weekend and getting ready to finish it up in the next few hours. I've been challenged trying to explain the TOI, and with the video demonstration of how the cue ball reacts it will be much easier to understand.

It's funny to see the reaction when players see this for the first time because it's totally unfamiliar. You will see the cue ball react like this when Efren plays, however, few have caught on to what he's actually doing. I learned this technique in the late 80s and got the full benefit out of it by the early 90s. During this period I had a stretch of 3 straight years of winning 100% of my gambling matches.

My first Pro tournament I got 4th with wins against Efren, Earl, Rempe, Lebron, and then went to Reno (SEE LINK BELOW -Steve Mizerak vs CJ Wiley) and had wins over Varner, Mizerak and several other pros finishing 5th. I was consistently in the top 10 in the world for the next 8 years and only practiced a few hours a week. My tournament game caught up to my gambling game in 96, winning the ESPN World Open and finishing First Runner up the next 2 years. Your game can jump up several notches as well with this information and the dedication to commit and practice it for a few weeks.

The TOI was my "secret ingredient," and I never divulged that to anyone until years later and only now do I make it public. There are many different ways to play this game, this one will "get the cash," and many of the past champion gamblers used it in their own way.

If you go back to see the first posts I made about it in the Aiming Section many people thought it was "nonsense", I will assure you after you see the video you will be convinced it's a serious weapon and the players you have been struggling to beat will have a "big surprise" if/when you decide to commit to the "Touch of Inside". Your opponents will have no idea what hit them unless you tell them, and even then few will try to incorporate {TOI} into their Game. 'The Game is the Teacher'

STEVE MIZERAK VS CJ WILEY
 
Last edited:

rhatten

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey Cj... thankx for the link,... I can relate to the style. Looks kinda familiar..:wink:
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Funny.. But I know exactly what you meant. Sometimes its clear as mud. :wink:
:

Interesting is right. I have a ruptured L5 S1 disc in my back.

I 1st. noticed that my dominant shooting eye went bad after a piece of metal had hit it. I started mising some rather easy shots & was shocked. Then I noticed that my cue was under my chin instead of my eye & I thought, that's why, I got it under my eye but still missed some rather easy shots. So I covered my right eye & all was well. I then covered my left eye & everything was quite blurry. I have an astigmatism. I tried playing with glasse but can not. So I play without them & found that I rarely misssed the inside english shots compared to the outside english shots. So, I started shooting almost everthing with inside english. I did that for a while but gradually the outside shots came back. I do not understand it because I still have the astigmatism in my shooting eye. I often say that I am shooting more by memory than with actual eyesight.

I ruptured the disc about 3 years ago but am 'okay' for the most part.

What a coincidence that we both have eye & back problems & both shoot/shot with inside english.

Best Regards & Thanks,
 

Hungarian

C'mon, man!
Silver Member
PJ,

I can't fully describe this but my short answer is yes. I do the same thing on the top of the ball as well when I'm jacked up or using follow. It seems like I can really see the line better when I look for the the bottom of the ball. It's kind of like trying to find the absolute point of the OB that touches the cloth. Once you find that point it's easier to connect the dots.

Do you use the bottom of the ball to get a clear fix on center ball and use center ball as a starting reference for estimating the cut? Like others use the OB's edge or one of its fractional divisions as a starting place?

pj
chgo
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
Why do you even think anyone is talking about you? It's quite clear who started name calling in this thread just because someone asked for a more clear explanation and yet it was the target of the name calling that got admonished. I found it remarkable and unfortunately it's typical in moderated discussion groups.

In neither of my questions did I say it was me since I know it wasn't me. I also found no hammering until after an obvious increase in blood pressure by Eagleman. And i saw no instigation. So I'm asking you what and where you see anything.

Freddie <~~~ was never confused on the OP's op.
 
Last edited:

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
I don't have the slightest bit of interest in getting into an argument about it and I won't be reading the PM you also sent. Sorry. Bye.

Thanks for the help.

Freddie <~~~ that answers that, number 9
 
Last edited:

markdrums1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't have the slightest bit of interest in getting into an argument about it and I won't be reading the PM you also sent. Sorry. Bye.

What about my thread pissed everybody off? Lets let it die, hit the stupid OB wherever it works 4 you? just a thought..............
 
Last edited:

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
Johnny Archer and I are going to do some seminars together

.... waiting on CJ's TOI final cut video link... It should be 'tasty'

I worked on it until 5 am this morning and still have another night of shooting. I want to MAKE SURE it's understood by those that want to learn it. The more I write/talk/research it the more fond memories are brought back.

I had to do some research and development with one of my stongest "mentors" and the finishing touches were made so I could complete the video. It's going to end up being close to an hour, and well worth it.

Johnny Archer (and maybe 2 other pros) and I are going to do some seminars together in Dallas/Atlanta/Vegas. As soon as I'm caught up I'll brainstorm with him and come up with a 3 month schedule. I know he'll be in Vegas quite a bit for Bonus Ball so we'll probably do several there, it just depends on where the biggest demand is. I'm sure we'll do one or two in Dallas in the next 2-3 months.
 
Top