Boycott of US Open

[JAM]

For those who are interested, AzBilliards' King Kong is not the King Kong from California. However, AzBilliards' King Kong is a person who has been playing pool his entire life and has had the benefit of seeing pool transform itself over the years to where it is today, and so I do respect King Kong's thoughts relating to the subject of this thread.

What is interesting to me is that the UNITED STATES Open is a tournament which is open to players of all caliber, no matter what is the country of origin. There are currently foreign players who have moved to the U.S. because the pool opportunities in their eyes are more lucrative here in the States. Our foreign comrades get the benefit of being an American UPA member as well as a representative of their original country of origin.

Having said that, the European players are struggling in the current pool world. Like the Americans and all others who are not of Asian-Pacific descent, they are not allowed to compete in the Asian tours which are restricted to country of origin. America is truly the land of opportunity even in pool.

The Billiard Congress of AMERICA hosts the BCA Open in Las Vegas every year, and 32 spots of the 64-player field are reserved for foreign players, no matter if they are currently a resident of the United States or an overseas country. It is worth noting here that MANY Philippino pool players did not attend this year's BCA Open, and this may be due to the fact that they can compete in restricted venues which favor them because of their nationality. If I was a Philippino, I know where I'd be shooting pool. Yet, the Billiard Congress of AMERICA welcomes players of all nationalities and American UPA members. All others can try to get in by winning one of the four qualifiers which are held each year prior to the event.

The U.S. Open is a once-a-year major event, and anybody who has attended one knows how cool it is. In 2003, Hurricane Isabel knocked out the power, and the tournament couldn't go forth for 2 days. Barry Behrman managed to locate a huge generator and had it brought to the Chesapeake Conference Center so the tournament could go on. He did incur additional expense, and while all others in the area had no lights, the U.S. Open went forth full steam ahead.

This is not a perfect pool world. There are many inequities and discriminatory practices within the sport/game. I cannot boycott the U.S. Open because I believe it is one of the best tournaments in existence. However, if the rules are changed such that it is not a level playing field, then I would have a great deal of concern. JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

 

[cuedoctor]

open

You Sir Make my point for me. THE ONLY PERSON HURTING THE LONGEST RUNNING TOURNAMENT IS THE OPEN. nothing I do or anyone else does is hurting it. it is hurting itself. How international is the OPEN when international players are scared to come for fear of not being paid? The sport really needs to clean house SIR. I had a weird analogy hit just now and I had to compare pool to boxing. Because they are both sports were the PROMOTERS are bigger then the players or they think they are. Like Don King says "ONLY IN AMERICA"! Now, thats sad!!

As Far as the excuses for the short fall, please do not sugar coat things. We all know about the US OPEN A.K.A "NEWS AT 11:00". That's why they have funny rules about co-mingling funds in certain places. From your post you are from VA and local to the area and would be saddened by the demise of the event so close to home. So, I say to you! Talk to your boy about handling his business and restoring the good name and reputation of the OPEN. If not for the players, me, you or the residents of chesapeake but for the sport of pool. But, as I said its about the money not the sport otherwise this would have been handled long ago. The Open is not pro-bono work and it is important to note the open has yet to be delayed for funding issues. But, winners from 3 years ago still have not been paid. What kind of sense does that make? Starting a new event when the old event is not squared away! As far as the 3000 people at 911, I am truely saddened and all to my knowledge were willing to work with the OPEN. Additionally, the advertisement listed X amount of money added. If X amount of money was not ADDED they can take another direction with things and attack the OPEN for false advertisement if they were so inclined and attach a lein on the one thing of real value, The US Open name. They could own the name and prevent anyone else from using it or sell it to recoop their winnings to another promoter that wants to pick up the torch. THe name is BIG. They really need to take care of this because the name is really worth something in my humble opinion as well as for the sake of pool in America

FOR YOUR INFO I AM 400 MILES WEST OF THE US OPEN AND IF IT BURNED TOMORROW I WOULDNT KNOW ABOUT IT TIL 2 DAYS LATER!! JUST SO YOU KNOW I HAVE NO BUSINESS THAT WOULD BE EFFECTED BY A BOYCOTT.

 

[Voodoo Daddy]

I'm goin'...

My first US Open was in '87 when it was still in Barry's pool room. He built a room that was a giant pit with theater seating all around, classic. Went a couple of times when it was at the Lake Wright Hotel...not as homey but just as good a location, This will be a return trip to Virginia Beach for me, where I feel the tournament has reached its peak.

Say what you want about Barry, but if you look real close in recent history into which promotor has done it for pool its him. Watch the Mosconi Cup last year, in the stands sat Barry <and that lil dog>, was he making money from that? I bet he went on his own dime supporting AMERICAN pool. Say what you will about Brady but he DID stick his neck out at a young age to try to promote pool. Anyone that knows pool history knows that some associations and promotors have done way worse things, the Jansco Brothers and The PPPA...anyone remember them?

Some of us sound like they have never made a mistake...

 

[Tom In Cincy]

I had to weed throught this and to say I offer no solutions is false. PRESSURE is a solution. MONEY is a solution. If the Opens name and reputation is not held accountable then how do you expect corrective behavior to occur?

Corrective action has occured.. haven't you been reading about the UPA scantioning this event? this means all money is going to be paid... and the WPA has also scantioned this event for world competition points.

You do not want the OPEN held accountable and why is that? If enough people indicate distaste with this and hold true to their word. Is the event sponsors going to make their NUT? So, to assure that they do they need to limit as much bad PR as possible and taking care of this matter may help in that regard. Additionally, all they care about is making money and if that is what they covet. Danny is right in his tactics of hitting um where it hurts in the wallet with as much bad PR as possible until it is resolved!

Danny and Mika have a legitament gripe.. but Danny's problems don't have a thing to do with the US Open it was another event. Mika's problem does.


Additionally, let this have occurred to Earl Strickland and all hell would have broken loose. Earl not there and its just not an OPEN and others would insist something was done. But, the smaller names are just road kill to you. Honestly the open is trying to be the premeire tournament and they can not say that when international players are scared to enter! How is some of the less famous great fillipino players going to venture here and not have assurance of getting paid. It is just CRAZY!

The fillipino players have been regulars to this event in the past, I don't see a decline based on your arguments. In fact, you might see some new faces from the Phillipines this year.

King Kong,

You've got a right to your opinion and I do understand that you want pool players to get more money and have a better life. Boycotts are a method of protest. A boycott is not a solution, like this forum, boycotts are just a way to vent to the public.

Without promoters, "no tournaments", without pool players "no tournaments" and without the fans... neither happen.

Fans are the most powerful influence, and to make my point.. have you ever been to the Derby City Classic? or the Super Billiards Expo? or, the Midwest Expo? these events are very fan friendly and fan intensive.

Reno and Vegas and now the Indian Casinos with the Lady's Pro tour have made the venue for pool tournametns FANtastic. Pool tournaments and vacation combos, what an offer.

Hope you have sucess with your boycott. Things can only get better for eveyone in the long run.. we can agree that pool players won't be able to do this without FANs and promoters.

 

[frankncali]

King Kong,

You've got a right to your opinion and I do understand that you want pool players to get more money and have a better life. Boycotts are a method of protest. A boycott is not a solution, like this forum, boycotts are just a way to vent to the public.

Without promoters, "no tournaments", without pool players "no tournaments" and without the fans... neither happen.

Fans are the most powerful influence, and to make my point.. have you ever been to the Derby City Classic? or the Super Billiards Expo? or, the Midwest Expo? these events are very fan friendly and fan intensive.

Reno and Vegas and now the Indian Casinos with the Lady's Pro tour have made the venue for pool tournametns FANtastic. Pool tournaments and vacation combos, what an offer.

Hope you have sucess with your boycott. Things can only get better for eveyone in the long run.. we can agree that pool players won't be able to do this without FANs and promoters.

Isnt this the theme every few years. It can only get better.
When is "better" going to take place.
I believe pool can be more successful but without true leadership it will
never be big. Even after 86 and the COM the sport did not explode on the
Pro level. The COM had a huge effect on the amount of players and on
gambling.
As for the Open. It should be a special event but it has now become clouded.
ANother poster mentions Barry supporting pool at the Mosconi Cup. Heck I think Mika will settle for his cash. The others as well.

At some point in time someone or some group is going to have to stand up
and lead the sport. Right now its being played like spades, chess, or any other social game.
As for fans. The UPA had their Championship here in LA two years in a row.
I went both years. At times the place was nearly empty. What I noticed
was that even the local players and the APA/other league players did not
show. Theres alot of league players in the APA area. All of those play pool and should be fans.
Something needs to be done to lead the sport and keep it growing. Its almost
reached a stopping point right now if not for overseas pool. Even Reno does not get the attendance it used to. I would love to see the US Open as
a premier event but right now its just carrying the premier name.

I am curious. I know who you are and read alot of your posts and you have good views and opinions so... If someone gave you the job to build pool where would you start? What would be the plan? Would it be more traditional or a newer concept?

 

[Tom In Cincy]

<much snipped>
I am curious. I know who you are and read alot of your posts and you have good views and opinions so... If someone gave you the job to build pool where would you start? What would be the plan? Would it be more traditional or a newer concept?

Great question.. and it deserves its own thread.

The first thing I would do is to explore more ways to make pool more exciting.
Even for the most diehard fans, watching a slow PRO is boring.

Some older players might remember the "Dinner Challenges of the Champions". Where Fans would purchase tickets to sit down and eat dinner and watch two great pool players play a 14.1 match. The Champions were the 'entertainment' for the night. $100/plate pool matches. The two champs would make a good night's work in the deal.

What really drives me CRAZY is that is 10 times more money in LEAGUE play than there is in the Womens and Mens tournaments each year.....Beer drinking bangers on Bar Boxes... almost a ½ million weekly players at $10 or more each a week. Add it up.. that more than all the Men and Womens prize money totaled for the last 5 years.

Eight ball is the most widely played game in pool. Yet, the pros play 9 ball. Why is that?

I'd have to consider changing the tournament formats to 8 ball instead of 9 ball. But I also have to admit, it has 6 more reasons to become NON-Exciting as 9 ball.

Ellegance.. there isn't much in todays tournaments. There needs to be more "CLASS" in the respect for the game and for the PLAYERS.

Referees, ALL BALL Fouls......

Stronger Tournament Directors/Referees with the Zero Tollerence to Shark moves. NO warnings.... just a quick DQ.

More Regional Tournaments with qualifiers for the "Big Events"

City Teams (or regional teams) that would play for the State Titles and then compete for the National title.

Let TV come to pool to purchase a genuine product. The Women still have to PAY ESPN for the AIR time and try to recoup the cost by selling advertisements and getting pool industry sponsoship or having the casinos pay for the TV time. Check it out.. there are 7 or 8 Casino events of the 10 or so WPBA tournaments scheduled each year.

I know there is a lot more than what I have mentioned that could affect the increase of Pool.. but the Players and Fans have the most power and just don't have a clue (me included) of how to use this power.

 

[King Kong]

I had to weed throught this and to say I offer no solutions is false. PRESSURE is a solution. MONEY is a solution. If the Opens name and reputation is not held accountable then how do you expect corrective behavior to occur?

Corrective action has occured.. haven't you been reading about the UPA scantioning this event? this means all money is going to be paid... and the WPA has also scantioned this event for world competition points.
.

Your last statement of Sanctioning is one I have posted on before of the US Open in 2005. The UPA rule in the past was the added money be placed in escrow with an attorney. I have asked on numerous occassions for someone to "SHOW ME THE MONEY" and they will not list where and with whom the escrow money resides.

The UPA is a Limitied Liability Company. or LLC and has limited resources or items that can be attacked if someone is not paid. So, you can not go after any of the UPA Board or Directors individually to recoop any harm that is done. So, corrective action has not occurred. Your asssumption that all money is going to be paid is wishful thinking at best. Becuase, no one is willing to "SHOW ME THE MONEY" by providing info on the escrow account and an attorney holding it.

As far as the Boycott of the Open I am obviously not alone in my feelings as numerous others have agreed with my sentiment and are Boycotting. I am additionally looking for vendors that are pulling support and state they are pulling support or boycotting as well. The loss of fans in attendance resulting from this matter maybe bad for business that week and a sign of support by numerous vendors would be great PR for their business and indicate they are honest and share the same values as those that are boycotting because what happened is not the amercan way. This can be corrected an spun differently, if they take care of these matters. The choice is the OPENS and always has been. Get a lone from Blackjack that said he offered or whom ever, work a second job & etc. But take care of it, its been 3 years!

Addtionally, I always speak of the OPEN and never anyone individually. The OPEN has been in my opinion, a family run business. So, i have not distinquished between the events, years or promoters. The Open needs to handle its business. These are my humble opinions

Kong

 

[JustPlay]

You Sir Make my point for me. THE ONLY PERSON HURTING THE LONGEST RUNNING TOURNAMENT IS THE OPEN. nothing I do or anyone else does is hurting it. it is hurting itself. How international is the OPEN when international players are scared to come for fear of not being paid? The sport really needs to clean house SIR. I had a weird analogy hit just now and I had to compare pool to boxing. Because they are both sports were the PROMOTERS are bigger then the players or they think they are. Like Don King says "ONLY IN AMERICA"! Now, thats sad!!......




KINGKONG,

You have pointed out the biggest problem with pool- promoters, tournaments and players keep shooting themselves in the foot. The "US Open" is no different, espcially since is the really the biggest single tournament in the US. It is just sad. Berhman was at one point trying to sell the "rights" and name of the US open for a large amount of money- no takers though. Can anyone ever think over the last 30 years when Mens professional pool was great? Neither can I. There were a few years here and there when it was good MPBA, the Camel Tour and when the rest of the world started comming to the US to play pool. Now it is all pretty much gone back to the rest of the world and has left the US..

 

[King Kong]

As for fans. The UPA had their Championship here in LA two years in a row.
I went both years. At times the place was nearly empty. What I noticed
was that even the local players and the APA/other league players did not
show. Theres alot of league players in the APA area. All of those play pool and should be fans.
Something needs to be done to lead the sport and keep it growing. Its almost
reached a stopping point right now if not for overseas pool. Even Reno does not get the attendance it used to. I would love to see the US Open as
a premier event but right now its just carrying the premier name.

I am curious. I know who you are and read alot of your posts and you have good views and opinions so... If someone gave you the job to build pool where would you start? What would be the plan? Would it be more traditional or a newer concept?

Hi FrankNCAli,

I gave this question some thought and here are some of my findings.

#1. Infra-structure needs work. I would use email and mass mailings better. The UPA, APA, BCA, Planet Pool, Hampton Ridge, Joss Tour, and etc. all have email list. But, no one has thought to combine them all and create the ability to send one email to millions of people. Collectively, these pool groups have that many members with email addresses. A data base to sort member data so you can send selective emails to selective groups. Currently, the BCA, APA, UPA and etc. are doing these functions alone. Multiple agencies doing the same thing is not BRIGHT. UNIFYING is the KEY!!!!!

#2. Once you fix the current infrastructure situation you need to use it. I would begin with a monthly news letter. ALL the organizations are doing these things solo. Unite and do it collectively it is more efficent.

#3. Guarantee Fans what they want. It is a crap shoot currently whether or not Efren, Bustamante or Earl are in attendance. Fans come for them and other marquee players and they are elder states men of the sport currently. I have yet to see an advertisement that Guaranteed their pressence. So, to assure this they need to be consulted on what they need to make that guarantee real and allow their name and image be exploted for marketing purposes? Health Insurance, Hotel Room for the event & etc. They would know better then me!

#4. Events at destinations people want to go to! Major cities allow a fan to make a vacation out of it and lets face facts people have to work and have families. Their vacation time is valuable and a spouse will go nuts if they are spending it in spokan, wisconsin. But, have it in bermuda and she/he would not give a $hit what you did for a few hours during the day and be happy it was there.

#5. Format change is much needed. I would like to take a page from the Phillipinos and switch to rotation. 15 balls and money on the 5, 9 & 15 in a ring game format with 4 players battling it out. A final with Earl, Efren, Keith, Bustamante on the final table would be some real excitement. I would call it "MONEY BALL" People would fly from all over to see something like that. TV would have to have it! I would follow the World series of poker format with feeder tables dwendling down the field until you get to the final table.

#6. The rack is too important in 9 ball and 10 ball. Place 5 more balls out their and I promise you will not see players racking the balls for 20 minutes like we do currently. I would KILL 9 BALL and 10 Ball. What a waste of time on something as trivial as the rack. A race to 9 is 17 games times 20 minutes is just torchure.

#7. I would create equipement standards. Cloths differ, Balls differ, Cushions differ, Pocket facing or cut & etc. Table Height! some places have the tables so low it is no wonder pool players have bad backs.

#8. If you look at the heads up matches of poker you would notice they "SUCK" the tournament table settings are far better because of the table talk. In pool it is discouraged and I would change that and allow it. THe Player places his marker on the table rail when he is about to shot and all talk stops. It is a warning 1st offense and directors call on second.

#9. I would look at the demographics of the APA and BCA to make sure major events are in major markets. No more Pittsburg or areas that can not support an event. Addditionally, the UPA tournament turnout problems are a result of "POOR INFRA-STRUCTURE". THe APA and BCA slip a flier in the bag along with the score sheet and reality is no one reads the numerous slips they place in them. So, the mass emailing list would fix the turn out problem because I believe LA is a strong market and the ADVERTISING campain failed because the APA and BCA were ineffective in getting the word out. The slip a flier in the folder I am telling you "NO ONE READS ALL THAT JUNK" They pull out what they need and move on. Email is much better and cheaper. SAVE the TREES.

10. In terms of sponsors. I would start inward with table manufactors. I would explot the BOOM in the Asian market. Money managers such as Bill Miller of Legg MAson fame is desperately looking for CHINA plays in the market. The crowding in Asia narrows sport participation and interest to sports that use less space then Baseball, football & conteporary sports. Those parcels of land are for agriculture only! not much land is alotted for sports if any at all except the super elite. JEANNETTE Lee is an international superstar. If she went to Asia she would be treated as a GODDESS. We are thinking of the US marketing efforts and not hipping executes of the over seas angle to the sport and getting air play over there may be bigger then getting it here for potential sponsors with international presense. Companies like Gillette, Proctor and Gamble, General Mills & etc. IMHO would jump at supporting the sport. Additionally, with the big international companies ESPN ASIA would push it more. THey have really good rating in ASIA from what I hear. Sell sponsor ship this way. I have an economics background and you Guys are just not hitting the right cords with the Advertising executives.

I am tired of typing. I could go on. But, maybe some other time. Thanks for the question and the kind words about my posts.