Brass shaft insert for 3/8"x10 modified pin

muskyed

muskyed

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Does anyone know where I could get a 3/8"x10 modified brass insert for a wood shaft shaft I have. The cue maker doesn't offer it. What I would like to accomplish is to alter the weight balance of a cue that I have. The cue started out with a 18 3/8" balance point, but by the time I added some weight to get it to where I wanted, I was down to a balance point of 18".
I would like to do something to get this cue to balance out closer to the 18 1/2-19" range as that is where my other cues are, and I like that range best. I realize you can get used to anything, and if this were my only cue, I would just play with it the way it is, but I have 3 that I enjoy playing with, so would like to get this one somewhat closer. I have plenty of weight back at the weight bolt to be able to cut back, to end up back at the overall weight I like. I do have a cue lathe to attempt to do this, but will probably just take it to Jacoby to do as I wouldn't have to ship it. Jacoby doesn't have an insert but will do it if I can come up with one.
If there isn't such a thing, could I just use a standard 3/8x10 brass insert by drilling out the center to match the inner diameter of the modified pin?
 
3/8-10 is a wood screw. 3/8-10M is just a variation with better contact between the pin and threads. I've never seen a metal insert on a 3/8-10 shaft. Personaly I use paper micarta, especially on keilwood shafts, those threads can be a bit brittle.
What material is the joint pin in your cue?
 
muskyed said:
Does anyone know where I could get a 3/8"x10 modified brass insert for a wood shaft shaft I have. The cue maker doesn't offer it. What I would like to accomplish is to alter the weight balance of a cue that I have. The cue started out with a 18 3/8" balance point, but by the time I added some weight to get it to where I wanted, I was down to a balance point of 18".
I would like to do something to get this cue to balance out closer to the 18 1/2-19" range as that is where my other cues are, and I like that range best. I realize you can get used to anything, and if this were my only cue, I would just play with it the way it is, but I have 3 that I enjoy playing with, so would like to get this one somewhat closer. I have plenty of weight back at the weight bolt to be able to cut back, to end up back at the overall weight I like. I do have a cue lathe to attempt to do this, but will probably just take it to Jacoby to do as I wouldn't have to ship it. Jacoby doesn't have an insert but will do it if I can come up with one.
If there isn't such a thing, could I just use a standard 3/8x10 brass insert by drilling out the center to match the inner diameter of the modified pin?
Click to expand...
McDermott uses some brass inserts in some of thier 3/8x10 jointed cues. So it's not unheard of. But McDermott doesn't sell Cue parts so you would have to have someone make you the insert.
How much weight do you think you'll need to bring the balance to where you want it?
 
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muskyed said:
Does anyone know where I could get a 3/8"x10 modified brass insert for a wood shaft shaft I have. The cue maker doesn't offer it. What I would like to accomplish is to alter the weight balance of a cue that I have. The cue started out with a 18 3/8" balance point, but by the time I added some weight to get it to where I wanted, I was down to a balance point of 18".
I would like to do something to get this cue to balance out closer to the 18 1/2-19" range as that is where my other cues are, and I like that range best. I realize you can get used to anything, and if this were my only cue, I would just play with it the way it is, but I have 3 that I enjoy playing with, so would like to get this one somewhat closer. I have plenty of weight back at the weight bolt to be able to cut back, to end up back at the overall weight I like. I do have a cue lathe to attempt to do this, but will probably just take it to Jacoby to do as I wouldn't have to ship it. Jacoby doesn't have an insert but will do it if I can come up with one.
If there isn't such a thing, could I just use a standard 3/8x10 brass insert by drilling out the center to match the inner diameter of the modified pin?
Click to expand...
You may be able to move balance up with 3/8 x 16 socket set screws inserted from the buttcap forward. May have to drill and tap a deeper hole. You need at least 2 screws locked together to prevent rattles. 5/16×18 socket set screws in from the joint on the shaft will work also. Drill and tap and lock two socket set screws together. You should be able to adjust weight and balance point to your liking. Good luck, Roger Pettit.
 
Thanks for the replies. Yes I had already talked to McDermott about making a gcore 30" shaft for some McDermott cues I have also, and when I brought up the subject that my 3 McDermott cues are very rear balanced also, they mentioned they could put a brass insert in the shaft to alter the ballance.
I then mentioned that I had this other custom cue with a 3/8x10 modified pin and asked if they could drill out the center of the insert to fit that cue also as the shaft for that cue fit fine on my Mcdermotts. They wouldn't do that.
I also talked to Jacoby about having them make me an Ultra shaft like the ones I use on my Schons to fit the 3/8x10 modified and they didn't have a problem with that but wanted me to bring my butt in to make sure it would fit. They also didn't offer a brass insert option, but said if I could come up with one, they could probably install it.
So where I'm at is trying to find a brass insert or two to modify the shaft on my custom cue, and that would allow me to use that on my Mcdermotts also.
I still have the email from McDermott when I asked them about building a shaft, maybe I'll see if they will sell me a insert.
As to getting weight more forward in the custom cue butt, I'll take the weight bolt out and see how deep the hole is, but I really don't want to drill it out further.
As to how much weight, I'm not really sure, I think the McDermott insert added .2 to .3 oz, so that would allow me to get that much out of the butt.
If I'm unable to get an insert, I probably will just remove the weight I added to the butt and that will bring the ballance back to about 18 1/2", or I may just have McDermott build me a gcore shaft with the brass insert, as their shafts that I have without the insert, weigh about the same as my custom shaft now.
The cue is a DZ that I really like, but don't shoot much due to the ballance being different than the Schons that I mostly play with. The pin is stainless I think, and shaft thread wood.
I may get ahold of DZ also to see if by chance he has one laying around somewhere. I think he used to offer it, but doesn't now.
 
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muskyed said:
Thanks for the replies. Yes I had already talked to McDermott about making a gcore 30" shaft for some McDermott cues I have also, and when I brought up the subject that my 3 McDermott cues are very rear balanced also, they mentioned they could put a brass insert in the shaft to alter the ballance.
I then mentioned that I had this other custom cue with a 3/8x10 modified pin and asked if they could drill out the center of the insert to fit that cue also as the shaft for that cue fit fine on my Mcdermotts. They wouldn't do that.
I also talked to Jacoby about having them make me an Ultra shaft like the ones I use on my Schons to fit the 3/8x10 modified and they didn't have a problem with that but wanted me to bring my butt in to make sure it would fit. They also didn't offer a brass insert option, but said if I could come up with one, they could probably install it.
So where I'm at is trying to find a brass insert or two to modify the shaft on my custom cue, and that would allow me to use that on my Mcdermotts also.
I still have the email from McDermott when I asked them about building a shaft, maybe I'll see if they will sell me a insert.
As to getting weight more forward in the custom cue butt, I'll take the weight bolt out and see how deep the hole is, but I really don't want to drill it out further.
As to how much weight, I'm not really sure, I think the McDermott insert added .2 to .3 oz, so that would allow me to get that much out of the butt.
Click to expand...
.2 to .3 oz isn't much so here's an alternative to the brass insert. Drill the shaft deeper for a standard 5/16x14, then use an undersized 5/16x14 screw, cut a straight slot across the face of the screw for a straight screwdriver.
Add slow drying epoxy first and slowly install the screw. You do not have to fill the entire hole with epoxy. Eneogh so when you install the screw, it will be submerged in epoxy.
Use an epoxy syringe to put the epoxy in. If done carefully, you might not effect the existing threads of your 3/8x10. The course undersized threads will fill with epoxy without pressure blowing the walls on the shaft. This will add .6 without feeling to joint heavy.
DON'T USE A FINE THREAD LIKE 5/16x18!
Hope this helps.
Example
 

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Great idea, I love it and can do that myself. I do have a full woodshop with lathes, and also a Mid America cue lathe that I have used for tip replacements and a couple of ferrules. I think I'll turn a dowel the size of my shaft first, with a 3/8" tapped hole in it to practice first on. I may need to get a longer drill bit but do have a good assortment of brad point long drill bits in regular and metric to try first.
Not sure why I didn't come up with that idea as I'm usually very good at coming up with a solution to a problem at hand.
I really appreciate everyone's help and will probably go out to the shop this morning to play with this. I'll have to be quick though as my wife's coming home from her quilting class by noon and has told me she wants our refrigerator door ice dispenser fixed before we leave tomorrow for a week or so of fishing at our summer house.
 
muskyed said:
Great idea, I love it and can do that myself. I do have a full woodshop with lathes, and also a Mid America cue lathe that I have used for tip replacements and a couple of ferrules. I think I'll turn a dowel the size of my shaft first, with a 3/8" tapped hole in it to practice first on. I may need to get a longer drill bit but do have a good assortment of brad point long drill bits in regular and metric to try first.
Not sure why I didn't come up with that idea as I'm usually very good at coming up with a solution to a problem at hand.
I really appreciate everyone's help and will probably go out to the shop this morning to play with this. I'll have to be quick though as my wife's coming home from her quilting class by noon and has told me she wants our refrigerator door ice dispenser fixed before we leave tomorrow for a week or so of fishing at our summer house.
Click to expand...
Usually the biggest problem is having a 6 inch long 5/16x14 tap. My Radial tap might be my only tap I bought in this Industry. I had Widell make all my taps and dies years ago. Not cheap but I'm happy. A long 1/4" drill bit is easy to find.
 
Thanks, I may look into that insert, I think I could easily do that myself, or I was thinking of having Jacoby make me an Ultra shaft in 3/8"x10 so I would keep the similar hit as the Ultra's I use on my Schon's. Jacoby did mention that they would put the insert in if I could come up with one. Looks like my problems are solved without having to send the shaft out to be done.
I will have to look into that tap issue, maybe I will take a bolt and try to make it a self tapper for this. Thankfully I can do this on some scrap wood first.
 
Well looks as though I'll have to take it out to be done. This sucks. Was going so easy, first made a maple test dowel at .845, then drilled a 17/64 hole I think it was. Then found I had some 1/4" and 5/16 threaded rod in the shop so I figured I would dremmel a couple angled slots to make my own tap. Should have checked first to see if it fit down the shaft. Nope, just a touch tight. So I flopped my test dowel, drilled a 13/64 hole and cut a couple angled slots in the 1/4" rod.
Worked like a charm.
Then reality hit. While I have a cue lathe for my tips and such, the bore is just too small to do stuff like this. This is not the first time I have ran into this problem.
Decisions, decisions, what to do. Pay someone to do it, or buy a new lathe. Think I'll put this project on hold as I would hate to pay someone else, then a month later decide on getting a new lathe.
The Mid America I have is really a great accurate lathe, just a bit limited for larger work.
Just checked on a new lathe, 13 weeks out worst case, maybe slightly sooner. Why didn't I do this the last time I was thinking about it. I may have a lathe for sale but wouldn't ship it till I got a new one. It's really a fantastic lathe for what it is designed for.
 
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I could, but want to fix the shaft I have, and not just have it sit in a case unused as it's a great shaft. Also I don't want a heavier standard shaft and will probably be buying another Jacoby Ultra shaft to match the ones I use now on my Schons. This way I could use the same shaft on my McDermotts also.
It would be so easy to add some weight if my cue lathe had a large bore. This issue has come up before on other projects and I will probably buy a large bore version of what I have just to have it.
I probably also am going to order some 3/8x10 brass inserts also.
Would be a nice if shaft makers offered an option to where you could insert set screws to help alter the weight and ballance for what feels good to you.
If it's your only cue, you can just get used to how it plays, but if you have many different cues, of different makes and pins, it would be nice to get them somewhat similar.
I realize cue design and ballance are what they are for the most extent, but if you have one cue you really like that has a 19" balance point, and another cue with a 18" ballance point, that you really like also, but don't play much as you prefer the ballance point of the 19" cue, it would be nice if by adding or subtracting set screws in the shaft with a corresponding change of the weight bolt, you could get that other cue somewhat closer to the ballance you liked.
 
muskyed said:
I could, but want to fix the shaft I have, and not just have it sit in a case unused as it's a great shaft. Also I don't want a heavier standard shaft and will probably be buying another Jacoby Ultra shaft to match the ones I use now on my Schons. This way I could use the same shaft on my McDermotts also.
It would be so easy to add some weight if my cue lathe had a large bore. This issue has come up before on other projects and I will probably buy a large bore version of what I have just to have it.
I probably also am going to order some 3/8x10 brass inserts also.
Would be a nice if shaft makers offered an option to where you could insert set screws to help alter the weight and ballance for what feels good to you.
If it's your only cue, you can just get used to how it plays, but if you have many different cues, of different makes and pins, it would be nice to get them somewhat similar.
I realize cue design and ballance are what they are for the most extent, but if you have one cue you really like that has a 19" balance point, and another cue with a 18" ballance point, that you really like also, but don't play much as you prefer the ballance point of the 19" cue, it would be nice if by adding or subtracting set screws in the shaft with a corresponding change of the weight bolt, you could get that other cue somewhat closer to the ballance you liked.
Click to expand...
Mezz SWS shafts have this feature.
 
Don't really know about the percent vs length of cue, but I do know that a1 1/4" piece of 1/4" bolt is about .25 of an oz or so, and adding that weight to the shaft and subtracting the same from the rear weight bolt I would estimate to move the balance point apx 1/2 " or more and that would be fine to me. Also would be well over a 1% move in ballance point.
I actually have 3 Mcdermotts that i would like to try this on also that are very rear balanced, and I almost never play with them because of this.
It's my cues, its what i would like to accomplish, and I admit I like to tinker and after helpful suggestions from most all here except you, it seems quite easily accomplished.
 
muskyed, Howdy;
Over 50 years ago I had to do aircraft weight and balance. All the same when it
comes down to it, really. Forgot all that stuff so, I found a link for you to follow
to figure it out;
raptor-scientific.com

Center of Gravity Explained | Space Electronics

Our know-how center gives you the information you need to find center of gravity and understand the factors which affect it. Learn more today.
raptor-scientific.com raptor-scientific.com
It can help lead you to how you can change the CG as well.
Let us know how it goes, please.

hank
 
muskyed said:
Does anyone know where I could get a 3/8"x10 modified brass insert for a wood shaft shaft I have. The cue maker doesn't offer it. What I would like to accomplish is to alter the weight balance of a cue that I have. The cue started out with a 18 3/8" balance point, but by the time I added some weight to get it to where I wanted, I was down to a balance point of 18".
I would like to do something to get this cue to balance out closer to the 18 1/2-19" range as that is where my other cues are, and I like that range best. I realize you can get used to anything, and if this were my only cue, I would just play with it the way it is, but I have 3 that I enjoy playing with, so would like to get this one somewhat closer. I have plenty of weight back at the weight bolt to be able to cut back, to end up back at the overall weight I like. I do have a cue lathe to attempt to do this, but will probably just take it to Jacoby to do as I wouldn't have to ship it. Jacoby doesn't have an insert but will do it if I can come up with one.
If there isn't such a thing, could I just use a standard 3/8x10 brass insert by drilling out the center to match the inner diameter of the modified pin?
Click to expand...
McDermott often uses huge weight bolts. have you taken it out to what you have in your cue? you may just need to adjust it for a nice balance. Also, make sure if you take out a weight that it is the only one. I have had cues with three bolts screwed in one on top of the other.
 
Yes, I have the weight of the cues where I want. They fall between 19.3 for the lightest to 19.6 for the heaviest. The McDermotts are all in the 19.3 range, and I actually would like to add a tenth or two, but that would make it worse yet as to balance as they are already the most rearward balanced of the bunch. And yes, they do come with a fairly large weight bolt that I already have cut some back but stopped taking more off at apx 19.3 oz because that is the lightest, I am comfortable with. My weight preference for a cue is 19.4-19.5 oz. My Schons were the easiest to get the weight and balance I preferred. My DZ was about 19.2 when I got it with a balance of about 18 3/8, but after adding about .2 oz to the butt, the balance was 18", similar to the McDermotts, and a bit too far from my Schon that I liked.
Do I play ok with a more forward balance, sure I do, but just like it better closer to the 19" range. Actually, anything over 18 1/2' balance point I can live with, but do not want to stray from the 19.4-19.5 oz total weight range. With options suggested for the shafts, it seems that I can easily get close to the results that I prefer.
After Michaels suggestion, I went out to my shop and did a quick test and found that it would be quite easy to alter the shafts that I have with the 3/8-10 pin sizing with a 1/4" threaded rod insert in the 1"-1 1/2" range. The only issue for me was that my lathe wasn't the large bore version, so for now my project is on hold. I like doing things myself when possible, and fortunately I am not in a hurry to do this as my main player is where I like it for now. I probably am going to order a new lathe, so will wait on this till I decide on that. If not, I will probably just take the shafts to Jacoby and have them either install inserts, or just drill a hole for me. It's not worth it to me to ship the shafts out and back to have the work I would like done.
I have to say that the DZ that I picked up is just a fantastic cue, with a hit that is hard to describe. If it were my only cue, I would have left it where it came at about 19.2 oz and just played with it, but it's not my only cue, and just needs a slight tweak to what I prefer.
Thanks for all your suggestions and help, but for now I going to put it to rest till I decide on new lathe or take a drive to Jacoby. Probably will be a new lathe as I've wanted one for a while, but there is quite a long wait at this time.
 
If your cuelathe is taig based you can order the large headstock from Midamerica for under 300. Or l am sure the large adjustable steady rest is even cheaper.
 
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