break and run % 9 ball vs 8 ball ( closed break )

Skippy27 said:
You should have reviewed the link he posted a little closer.
8-Ball
7' - 44%
7' - 52%
9' - 49%
9' - 50%
9' - 54%

All of the 9 ball he had listed were 9' and varied from 16% to 37%.

Statistically speaking of course, it looks to me that 9' had the highest run out percentage by a 3% average.
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Ok - US Open 8 ball was on a 7'.

So, here's the math:

Mean runout percentage for bar box = (52+44) /2= 48% average runout rate.
Mean runout percentage for 9' = (50+54)/2 = 52% average runout rate.
Net difference - 4%.

Taking the high/low results, we have anywhere from a 2-10% difference in BnRs from a 7 foot to a 9 foot table.

I'd say there is a statistical difference. I threw out the Chinese 8 ball because it's a different table, entirely.

The difference between the #1 golfer in the world, and #100 is just over 2 shots per round. Less than a 3% difference. Statistically very different.
 
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I play on 9 foot gold crowns with BCA rules so all shots are called in 8 ball. I find my break and run ratio is 2:1 in favor of 8 ball.
 
Took me much longer to break and run in 9-ball than 8-ball.
I had been BnRing in 8-ball for over a year or more before finally doing my first 9-ball BnR.
Then after I did my first BnR in 9 it took about 6 or 8 months before I finally got another one. Then it little by little became a regular event.
I still think 8 is much easier than 9.
However I suppose one's playing style is a factor too.
 
bigB said:
5's break and run?? :grin:
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ssshhhhh....people on here will think i an one of those dasterdly apa sandbaggers they are always complaing about.:D

seriously though... i have been a 6 in both 8 and 9 and probably borderline now. i could probably go up again anytime based on one nights play.
 
BnR has to be higher in 8-ball. No matter what table.
You will almost always get a good shot on the first ball in 8-ball.
In 9-ball ? Not so.
 
In all 5 of the 8-Ball events in Dr. Dave's summary table (see post #4), the table was open after the break. The stats, therefore, are not for what the OP called "closed break 8 ball."

I don't recall doing stats for any 8-Ball event using "take-what-you-make" rules.
 
9andout said:
Wow. I'm starting to see justification for the ANTI APA crowd. Those rules suck!
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Just out of curiosity, why would those rules suck? Why would you NOT become that category if that is the only category you made?

Is it because it makes the game harder and results in less BnR's?
Is it because a player doesn't stand over the table evaluating the remaining 14 balls trying to figure out run out patterns for everything - 8 different ways?

All the Elitest here always tout how you should play on "this equipment under these rules" otherwise it isn't real pool and is too easy. Yet when there is a rule that says you made "this category" of balls and thus are that category it is "lame".
 
Skippy27 said:
Just out of curiosity, why would those rules suck? Why would you NOT become that category if that is the only category you made?

Is it because it makes the game harder and results in less BnR's?
Is it because a player doesn't stand over the table evaluating the remaining 14 balls trying to figure out run out patterns for everything - 8 different ways?

All the Elitest here always tout how you should play on "this equipment under these rules" otherwise it isn't real pool and is too easy. Yet when there is a rule that says you made "this category" of balls and thus are that category it is "lame".
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Because you didn't call the pocket or the ball. If player A breaks dry does player B have to call his/her shot even though the table is still open or can they smack into the pile and hope something goes in? Also, what happens if one of each is made or 2 stripes and a solid? Actually curious, I don't know APA rules.

I'll add that I don't run out often but on a 9 foot table my 8 ball bnr is higher than on a 7 footer. It doesn't seem that I have nearly as many clusters to break out. It switches for 9 ball. My bnr is higher on the 7' than a 9'.
 
Skippy27 said:
Just out of curiosity, why would those rules suck? Why would you NOT become that category if that is the only category you made?

Is it because it makes the game harder and results in less BnR's?
Is it because a player doesn't stand over the table evaluating the remaining 14 balls trying to figure out run out patterns for everything - 8 different ways?

All the Elitest here always tout how you should play on "this equipment under these rules" otherwise it isn't real pool and is too easy. Yet when there is a rule that says you made "this category" of balls and thus are that category it is "lame".
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It's not "elitist" at all. I play APA even with their crappy rules. The rest of the world plays one way and then there is APA. Personally, as an APA player I don't think myself or anyone in my league are too stupid to learn world standardized 8 ball rules.

In little league, HS, college and the pro's,it's 3 strikes you're out. Heck, in most sports, the rules do not change because of the "recreation" league aspect of it.

If you made a ball on the break, you should be rewarded NOT penalized. Because I made a stripe and the solids are wide open, my opponent gains an instant advantage for doing nothing but sitting there looking stupid ;)

It makes no sense that folks can't play APA without slop, even the ones that slop it in are a little embarrassed by it. I can't play safety AND make my ball at the same time. WTF? Get rid of these rules and who would complaint cause slop don't count ? I can't think of one person, seriously.
 
ChicagoRJ said:
If you made a ball on the break, you should be rewarded NOT penalized. Because I made a stripe and the solids are wide open, my opponent gains an instant advantage for doing nothing but sitting there looking stupid ;)

It makes no sense that folks can't play APA without slop, even the ones that slop it in are a little embarrassed by it. I can't play safety AND make my ball at the same time. WTF? Get rid of these rules and who would complaint cause slop don't count ? I can't think of one person, seriously.
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I would agree about slop. However, lets take your penalized break and a safe play a little further.....

You choose to say you are penalized, I choose to say you are challenged. You say you want to make a ball and play safe, I say learn to accept the challenge of playing better safes.

So you consider it to be you being penalized for making one category of balls so instead of having the challenge of making another of that category you get to play any ball you want. I call it a challenge when you don't get to pick, which all higher level players should be happy to take on. However, lets go with your "penalty" theory and say you got hooked because you don't have cue ball break control (which you should as a good player). So we will extend this to regular play and you shoot one of your legal balls in and get hooked. Why should you be penalized for making a ball right? Wouldn't the fair thing be to allow you to move it so you have a open shot at another ball or get to change categories? I mean we wouldn't want you to be "penalized" for making a ball.

As far as the Safe goes, accept the challenge by picking another safe play. If it is your last ball then accept the challenge to play for the win or make it and then play a safe with either the 8 ball or one of your opponents balls.

Dockter said:
Also, what happens if one of each is made or 2 stripes and a solid? Actually curious, I don't know APA rules.
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It is still an open table until you make one category without making another. So yes, you can shoot a strip and a solid in on the next shoot and the next one and the next one and it will still be open until you are either down to the 8 ball or until you sink only one category.
 
Skippy27 said:
I would agree about slop. However, lets take your penalized break and a safe play a little further.....

You choose to say you are penalized, I choose to say you are challenged. You say you want to make a ball and play safe, I say learn to accept the challenge of playing better safes.

So you consider it to be you being penalized for making one category of balls so instead of having the challenge of making another of that category you get to play any ball you want. I call it a challenge when you don't get to pick, which all higher level players should be happy to take on. However, lets go with your "penalty" theory and say you got hooked because you don't have cue ball break control (which you should as a good player). So we will extend this to regular play and you shoot one of your legal balls in and get hooked. Why should you be penalized for making a ball right? Wouldn't the fair thing be to allow you to move it so you have a open shot at another ball or get to change categories? I mean we wouldn't want you to be "penalized" for making a ball.

As far as the Safe goes, accept the challenge by picking another safe play. If it is your last ball then accept the challenge to play for the win or make it and then play a safe with either the 8 ball or one of your opponents balls.



It is still an open table until you make one category without making another. So yes, you can shoot a strip and a solid in on the next shoot and the next one and the next one and it will still be open until you are either down to the 8 ball or until you sink only one category.
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You clearly picked a suitable username.
 
ChicagoRJ said:
In little league, HS, college and the pro's,it's 3 strikes you're out. Heck, in most sports, the rules do not change because of the "recreation" league aspect of it.
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Totally!!! As evidenced by all the aluminum bats in the major league dugouts.

Hell, your heralded sport doesn't even play the same rules between AL and NL.
 
ElCorazonFrio said:
Totally!!! As evidenced by all the aluminum bats in the major league dugouts.

Hell, your heralded sport doesn't even play the same rules between AL and NL.
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An aluminum bat is for "softball", not baseball.

The only rule difference between the NL and AL is the designated hitter. The pitcher still has 3 strikes before he's out, as well.

Anything else you want to twist to try and sound smart?
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
An aluminum bat is for "softball", not baseball.

The only rule difference between the NL and AL is the designated hitter. The pitcher still has 3 strikes before he's out, as well.

Anything else you want to twist to try and sound smart?
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Right...the recreational form of baseball that MOST people play is softball. Know how I know this? I know about a hundred people who play softball and zero people who play baseball.

I wouldn't know if that is the only rule that is different between the two leagues, but I do know that it is different.

Yeah, three strikes and you are out. Closed break or open break, all you have to do is make all of one group and the 8 and you win. Same thing, exactly.

Anything else you want to retwist to try to sound as dumb as you are?
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
An aluminum bat is for "softball", not baseball.

The only rule difference between the NL and AL is the designated hitter. The pitcher still has 3 strikes before he's out, as well.

Anything else you want to twist to try and sound smart?
Click to expand...

BTW, you are absolutely wrong. Highschool baseball allows aluminum bats...at least according to my twelve seconds of research.

Who is sounding smart now?
 
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