Break butt material selection

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DallasHopps

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I see dymondwood break and break/jump cues and assume they're popular because of some characteristics of resin impregnated wood. It made me wonder: if the weight wasn't a detrimental factor, would there be any downside to using a solid phenolic rod as a break butt?

Does the phenolic flex at that diameter/length? Would it be an irritant to the grip hand if left wrapless?
 
I have not seen phonolic in 29" lengths, so you would have to splice or join several rods. Phenolic is really heavy, why would you want such a heavy cue?
Use a purpleheart core or a laminated maple core and your good to go.
Most important is a good stiff taper on the shaft, if you are using maple. With purpleheart you can use a longer taper, due to the density of the wood.
I have made a few with 3/8-16 tennon, G10 ferrule and Taom tip.
They break really good.
 
You can get phenolic rod in lengths long enough to make a butt, I have several sticks 4ft long, but it would be way too heavy. The heaviest a cue can weigh and be legal to play with is 25 oz.
 
stevel said:
You can get phenolic rod in lengths long enough to make a butt, I have several sticks 4ft long, but it would be way too heavy. The heaviest a cue can weigh and be legal to play with is 25 oz.
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You nailed it with the legal reference. For a solid double black butt (.840/1.250) with the threaded bumper, no holes, no collar or butt cap, SS 3/8 joint pin, 3.75 oz shaft, my program says the cue would be 24.79 ounces.
 
Thanks for the replies. It sounds like the weight is the biggest detriment in using phenolic rod.

I use a jump break right now that I added a second weight bolt to; the original had enough room to screw in and add the extra. It weighs in the neighborhood of 24-25 oz now, and I like it. The mass lets me concentrate on delivery and accuracy, and even if it's a placebo effect it works for me.

I'd honestly like to try, for shits and giggles, a heavier break cue in the 30-33 oz range, and depending on the grade of phenolic rod used I think it would get me there. I think a brown linen phenolic would look sharp with a black wrap and black butt cap and joint collar. Legality in sanctioned competition is not a concern for me. Is this too stupid a project for a respectable cue maker to consider?
 
I've always looked at a break cue to be light to generate more arm speed. The heavier weight is actually detrimental to the break.
As far as a jump cue, I've read or heard from various sources that the jump cue should weight less than the cue ball. Is this true?
Thanks
 
DallasHopps said:
Thanks for the replies. It sounds like the weight is the biggest detriment in using phenolic rod.

I use a jump break right now that I added a second weight bolt to; the original had enough room to screw in and add the extra. It weighs in the neighborhood of 24-25 oz now, and I like it. The mass lets me concentrate on delivery and accuracy, and even if it's a placebo effect it works for me.

I'd honestly like to try, for shits and giggles, a heavier break cue in the 30-33 oz range, and depending on the grade of phenolic rod used I think it would get me there. I think a brown linen phenolic would look sharp with a black wrap and black butt cap and joint collar. Legality in sanctioned competition is not a concern for me. Is this too stupid a project for a respectable cue maker to consider?
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Why do you think a certain grade of phenolic rod would get you to 31.5 ounces? Do you know what the density of various phenolic rods measure to?
 
Looking at suppliers, I've found different grades listed in 4 foot lengths with the weight of each grade/diameter given on the info page. I plugged that info into a weight calculator for a conical frustum (29 inches @ 1.25/.840) and it put me in the ballpark of 27-28 oz for the butt, not taking into account addition or subtraction of weight for bumper, collar, or pin. I was looking at the specs listed for XX grade rod at US Plastics; the given info gives me a density Of around 0.071 lb/cubic inch.

I know it could be a totally stupid proposition, I'm just a curious type. If it was reasonable to have made and try, I'd experiment.
 
DallasHopps said:
Looking at suppliers, I've found different grades listed in 4 foot lengths with the weight of each grade/diameter given on the info page. I plugged that info into a weight calculator for a conical frustum (29 inches @ 1.25/.840) and it put me in the ballpark of 27-28 oz for the butt, not taking into account addition or subtraction of weight for bumper, collar, or pin. I was looking at the specs listed for XX grade rod at US Plastics; the given info gives me a density Of around 0.071 lb/cubic inch.

I know it could be a totally stupid proposition, I'm just a curious type. If it was reasonable to have made and try, I'd experiment.
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Thanks. The phenolic rod used for cue making is around 85 pounds per cubic foot, which is what yielded the 25 ounces for a cue I gave.

Your .071 per cubic inch number would net a 32-33 ounce cue after the shaft was added. I found one number for phenolic resin in that range. That is seriously dense.

It is hard for me to imagine generating enough stick speed to break well with something that heavy.
 
Regarding the required speed- I don't know. Everyone's different, but in my case it seems like I have a maximum, consistent speed regardless of weight. I bought an identical jump/break cue to the one I use and took out all of the weight, putting it around 17 oz. I know that I break better with my heavier cue, I just want to tinker and see where the ceiling is for the returns yielded by the extra weight.

I appreciate the answers and opinions.
 
DallasHopps said:
... I just want to tinker and see where the ceiling is for the returns yielded by the extra weight....
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Absolutely. There should be a relative maxima somewhere in there if you charted the weight of the cue against the speed of the cueball. The weight of the cue where that relative maxima is at will vary for each individual. Hard to imagine it being that high for anyone though. Good luck.
 
I believe Hank Corsair made phenolic forearm/butt sleeve cues. Just throwing that piece of info out there.
 
galipeau said:
I believe Hank Corsair made phenolic forearm/butt sleeve cues. Just throwing that piece of info out there.
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He did, cored with maple .
I have one made by Zylr, cored with Madagascar rosewood.
Pretty heavy. Good for stroke slippers.
 
Why not just use a solid phenolic core at .650 or .750 for the 29" butt?

I've been toying with this lately.
 
These are good bits of info to look into, thanks all. I can't emphasize enough how much I appreciate any serious consideration of what is, probably, a stupid idea.
 
JoeyInCali said:
We ain't stopping you from making it .
Let us know how it hits.
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I don't build cues, so this is an honest question. I know different woods and construction techniques influence how a cue feels... it seems like you're hinting that it'll be an undesirable hit. What would make it so, the weight or the material?
 
DallasHopps said:
I don't build cues, so this is an honest question. I know different woods and construction techniques influence how a cue feels... it seems like you're hinting that it'll be an undesirable hit. What would make it so, the weight or the material?
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I was suggesting it to Idealogist.
 
ideologist said:
Why not just use a solid phenolic core at .650 or .750 for the 29" butt?

I've been toying with this lately.
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I have made one cored with phenolic in the butt...hits great, feels good but the butt flexes some. I am sure it is because in the handle area I made it segmented instead of one long solid piece, but it makes for a fun time keeping the ring area from raising with the flexing. I would suggest purple heart core inside of the phenolic. But that is just my opinion. I used kingwood for the forearm with birdseye maple segments, an ivory joint and 3/8 10 pin.
 
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