Break Cue Features and Justification

tim913 said:
The winner!!

Follow the science. A harder tip will not absorb as much Kinetic Energy(KE) as a softer tip allowing more energy to be transferred to the CB.
OK so you pick up a foot pound of kinetic energy, Yaayyy, so what!

Going from a 21 oz cue to a 25 oz cue at 26 mph will add around 9 foot pounds of KE. Whooopeee!

KE energy is Mass x Speed. Let's say your arm weighs 10 pounds, and for a lot of players they use the same stroke for their break as they do their normal shots. So they are using their forearm only, going as fast as they can. They may look like they are using their shoulder and upper arm but usually all that comes into play after the CB has already left the gate, on their follow through!

Look at SVB's break, as critiqued by Dr Dave, on youtube. SVB engages his shoulder/upper arm before contact with CB. Most players are swinging a mass of 101 ounces(weight of 21 oz cue plus 5 lb lower arm) at 26 mph. for around 193 foot pounds of energy. They then go to a 25 ounce cue and add approx 9 foot pounds of energy. Add the upper arm and double the mass at 26 mph with a 21 oz cue and you've gone from 193 foot pounds to 346 foot pounds of energy. Easy to say but difficult to achieve. That's why SVB looks like he's hardly swinging at all, no need!

Would you rather be hit by a semi at 26 mph or a VW Beetle at same speed? Mass matters!! Get the upper arm/shoulder involved! Pro boxers don't swing from their arms, shoulders, or hips. They swing from their feet which involves the whole body
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I appreciate the feedback, but reject the effect that weight increases speed. I have a 18oz playing cue that far exceeds the speed of my 24oz breaker - that is “if I wanted to destroy the $$$ playing cue.” You won’t see many big hitters (MLB/PGA) swinging heavy sticks and not experience back and shoulder pain. My goal and decision to remove weight is:
1) Focus on technique
2) Pocket at least one ball
3) Rule the middle of the table
I’m not cloning SVB or Jeff Deluna. I want to keep my opponent in the chair watching me run out balls. Watch out I’m going down in weight!
 
Kjackxon said:
I appreciate the feedback, but reject the effect that weight increases speed. I have a 18oz playing cue that far exceeds the speed of my 24oz breaker - that is “if I wanted to destroy the $$$ playing cue.” You won’t see many big hitters (MLB/PGA) swinging heavy sticks and not experience back and shoulder pain. My goal and decision to remove weight is:
1) Focus on technique
2) Pocket at least one ball
3) Rule the middle of the table
I’m not cloning SVB or Jeff Deluna. I want to keep my opponent in the chair watching me run out balls. Watch out I’m going down in weight!
Click to expand...
Never said weight increases speed, just said that more mass at the same speed increases kinetic energy.
 
Kjackxon said:
I appreciate the feedback, but reject the effect that weight increases speed. I have a 18oz playing cue that far exceeds the speed of my 24oz breaker - that is “if I wanted to destroy the $$$ playing cue.” You won’t see many big hitters (MLB/PGA) swinging heavy sticks and not experience back and shoulder pain. My goal and decision to remove weight is:
1) Focus on technique
2) Pocket at least one ball
3) Rule the middle of the table
I’m not cloning SVB or Jeff Deluna. I want to keep my opponent in the chair watching me run out balls. Watch out I’m going down in weight!
Click to expand...

A heavier cue moving the same velocity at impact will definitely increase cueball velocity. The question becomes what weight of cue allows the user to deliver the highest cue speed while maintaining control.
 
I’m not a golfer. Do they debate heavier vs. lighter clubs? What’s the prevailing wisdom over there and how well does it translate here?

My gut says there is a limited spectrum of reasonable options (17oz-23oz?) and the individuality of our bodies and arm musculature might differ on what’s ideal for us personally.

I don’t think it’s as straight forward as a velocity is better for everyone, go light. Or as straight forward as mass is better for everyone, go heavy.

I think it’s great to have a break cue with a weight bolt kit and experiment with what generates ideal amounts of momentum with control.

It’s nice to have variables to play with because it might be more about getting dialed in than it is about an objective best tool for the job.
 
And I should add that pretty much every shot in pool is a jump shot to at least some minor degree. So we can’t forget those minor increments of cueball elevation start coming into play on the break because the ball might still be airborne at impact.

To use a vague term that means something different to everyone yet each person finds it meaningful, adjusting the weight on the cue can potentially affect your “timing”.
 
I was thinking about this earlier today and because I'm a numbers guy, here's what I came up with...

Let's say you're playing 9B and you're a sporty player and can run out at will (ok, better than sporty :)), you've got 9 balls on the table so you have to shoot in a max of 8 balls (made one on the break), include the break and you've now stroked 9 times per game with one of those being MUCH harder than any other shot you've taken (regardless of how soft you break, nobody shoots like that on a normal basis, if so, they get the 8 ;)).

That would mean that roughly 11% (1/9) of your shots will compress your tip more than a regular shot.

Make 2 balls and 13% of your shots are compressing the tip.
3 balls - 14%
4 balls - 17%


9 on the snap, combo an early 9, etc. and it could be a pretty substantial amount of times.

Now, just how much that affects the tip is beyond my care ;)
 
Rickhem said:
I'm in the market for a new break cue. I have been using an inexpensive cue for breaking. It's 21oz, has a hard leather tip, and is about 13mm in diameter, just a plain jane no frills cue. My player is about 19oz, has a Kamui Soft, and is about 11.8mm with a long pro taper. Up until now, I haven't really seen much of a need for anything more than what I'm using as a break cue, but lots of dry breaks lately and I want to upgrade. Some league players use those 25 ounce cues, and the weight helps when trying to break hard results in loss of control. I know of a couple that are much heavier than 25 ounces too. I have also tried a couple of very light break cues that some high level players let me try. I felt like I wasn't really controlling my hit with those, but they broke hard. Then there's the phenolic tips, and while I seemed to miscue a lot with them, I really haven't used them a whole lot, but lots of higher level players use them. I understand the purpose of the break cue for saving your player from those harder hit and greater impact stresses, so a thicker ferrule is a good idea, and a conical taper makes sense for managing impacts too, but what other features of a break cue should I be looking for, and why?
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Break cues really come down to feel and preference. I like 21 oz for me personally but some go much lighter or heavier. Try as many as you can or go thru a site like pool dawg that has a return policy. Phenolic tips do a great job at transferring energy and the tip on mine may outlast me, lol. They do scuff up the cue ball some so that is one downside. The miscue issue is very common at first with phenolic I struggled for a bit with that. After a couple of weeks it wasn't an issue and I don't even chalk my break tip anymore. Miscue is very rare for me. I was just using a cheap lucky before and what bothered me the most was all the vibration I would get on the break shot with it. My Viking crush has a beefy shaft and I don't get that vibration when I break. I also noticed I could dial the power down (better precision) and still get a nice spread. It's very rare for me to not make the wing ball but getting shape on the 1 if it doesn't go in the side pocket is another story. I am not faulting the cue for this. That's on me.
 
I used a Pechauer break cue, 19oz same as my main Pechauer cue. Way better cue to break with. Larger tip and beefy shaft with far less deflection.
 
IDK...The break is by far the most important shot in 9ball and 8 ball. I mean besides sinking the game winning ball ofc. It sets you up for success or failure, and once you get to a certain skill level, the whole game may be determined by that one shot alone. Good spread, shot on the one, you should be out.. So why wouldn't you have a specialized cue for that most important shot? Well, the number one reason is the fact that it is so different to your playing cue that it may throw you off and you may not hit the break as precisely as you intend. When I played with pred. z2, this became especially annoying to me. I broke great with my playing cue, but I couldn't because I'd damage it. So if I were to continue using that cue, I'd probably have to have a breakcue especially made to mimic the characteristics and balance but more solid in the front end. Back when people played with 314s, the predator BK was similar enough that people tended to get good results for that reason alone. I think that may be why so many people loved it, in spite of it being trash in the quality department. Try to find a butt for one in good shape (that has actually been played)....They are rare as hens teeth even though Predator sold truckloads of the things.

Now that I use a more solid playing cue mostly, I do tend to break with my playing cue a lot of the time. I even jump with it. I wouldn't do that with a soft layered tip, but I use pressed LePros and Triangles, so it's not a problem for me. It does remove the worry of being thrown off, but does introduce the problem of tip wear...There is no free lunch.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
IDK...The break is by far the most important shot in 9ball and 8 ball. I mean besides sinking the game winning ball ofc. It sets you up for success or failure, and once you get to a certain skill level, the whole game may be determined by that one shot alone. Good spread, shot on the one, you should be out.. So why wouldn't you have a specialized cue for that most important shot? Well, the number one reason is the fact that it is so different to your playing cue that it may throw you off and you may not hit the break as precisely as you intend. When I played with pred. z2, this became especially annoying to me. I broke great with my playing cue, but I couldn't because I'd damage it. So if I were to continue using that cue, I'd probably have to have a breakcue especially made to mimic the characteristics and balance but more solid in the front end. Back when people played with 314s, the predator BK was similar enough that people tended to get good results for that reason alone. I think that may be why so many people loved it, in spite of it being trash in the quality department. Try to find a butt for one in good shape (that has actually been played)....They are rare as hens teeth even though Predator sold truckloads of the things.

Now that I use a more solid playing cue mostly, I do tend to break with my playing cue a lot of the time. I even jump with it. I wouldn't do that with a soft layered tip, but I use pressed LePros and Triangles, so it's not a problem for me. It does remove the worry of being thrown off, but does introduce the problem of tip wear...There is no free lunch.
Click to expand...

You make a good point about "once you get to a certain skill level" but I have to counter with - once your opponents reach a certain skill level does it matter.

I didn't care about the break, or safeties for that matter, until I started losing games because of them.
 
Thanks for all of the feedback. Outcomes matter, and increased weight does not translate into increased accuracy. I’m delighted with getting the weight down to 19oz.
 
Thanks for all of the feedback. Outcomes matter, and increased weight does not translate into increased accuracy. I’m delighted with getting the weight down to 19oz
 
I tried a 23 oz beast to break with and I got no control and unless I backed way off the speed the CB came off the table often. I'm now using my old old bunjee break/jump and built a light weight shaft with an odega tip. It's right around 18 oz and breaks/jumps like a champ. One of the top local guys is trying his best to buy it LoL
 
The Mezz break cue is short with a 29” shaft and 25” butt.
It’s a good breaker.

C98790CA-2DAB-4304-877A-57BF50D14091.jpeg
 
a cheaper rabbit hole to get into, compared to buying "special" break cues, would be buying a spare break shaft and convert an old player. Or cheap cue with similar weight distribution than your player. jjcue.com has them on sales for $35 with several different joints. For the price of some breakers, you can buy two, put a break leather on one and still buy another $100-cue to do your own testing, including different types of wrap. I ended up with one of those, leather tip and identical weight and balance point to my player.
 
MattPoland said:
I’m not a golfer. Do they debate heavier vs. lighter clubs? What’s the prevailing wisdom over there and how well does it translate here?

My gut says there is a limited spectrum of reasonable options (17oz-23oz?) and the individuality of our bodies and arm musculature might differ on what’s ideal for us personally.

I don’t think it’s as straight forward as a velocity is better for everyone, go light. Or as straight forward as mass is better for everyone, go heavy.

I think it’s great to have a break cue with a weight bolt kit and experiment with what generates ideal amounts of momentum with control.

It’s nice to have variables to play with because it might be more about getting dialed in than it is about an objective best tool for the job.
Click to expand...
Pool players debate a lot of “non facts” as science. Or offer up a lot of conjecture and BS as scientific explanations for their opinions. Best to leave science to science guys like Dr Dave and Bob Jewett.
 
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