Break Cue Features and Justification

RRfireblade

Grammer Are For Stupids
Silver Member
I’m not a golfer. Do they debate heavier vs. lighter clubs? What’s the prevailing wisdom over there and how well does it translate here?

My gut says there is a limited spectrum of reasonable options (17oz-23oz?) and the individuality of our bodies and arm musculature might differ on what’s ideal for us personally.

I don’t think it’s as straight forward as a velocity is better for everyone, go light. Or as straight forward as mass is better for everyone, go heavy.

I think it’s great to have a break cue with a weight bolt kit and experiment with what generates ideal amounts of momentum with control.

It’s nice to have variables to play with because it might be more about getting dialed in than it is about an objective best tool for the job.
Golf is different, cuz you get a stick for every shot. So the stick that you want to hit the farthest, the driver, generally they make as light as they could possibly make. But the difference again is they make the face five times the size of a golf ball so you can't miss. And you looking for minimum spin, which again can be designed into the geometry of the golf club. So it kind of doesn't really compare.
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Golf is different, cuz you get a stick for every shot. So the stick that you want to hit the farthest, the driver, generally they make as light as they could possibly make. But the difference again is they make the face five times the size of a golf ball so you can't miss. And you looking for minimum spin, which again can be designed into the geometry of the golf club. So it kind of doesn't really compare.

I would have to disagree with the minimum spin. Golfers are always trying to spin it regarding on the situation and terrain. Whether it's landing short and letting it follow up, going long and bringing it back (on the green), or trying to curve it around trees, etc.

I also chuckled at the "so you can't miss" comment...I haven't golfed in years and I'm pretty sure that wouldn't apply if I tried playing today! LOL.
 

RRfireblade

Grammer Are For Stupids
Silver Member
I would have to disagree with the minimum spin. Golfers are always trying to spin it regarding on the situation and terrain. Whether it's landing short and letting it follow up, going long and bringing it back (on the green), or trying to curve it around trees, etc.

I also chuckled at the "so you can't miss" comment...I haven't golfed in years and I'm pretty sure that wouldn't apply if I tried playing today! LOL.
Negative Ghost Rider. The goal on the Drive is the low spin, zero is not an option. But minimal spin this what you're looking for on the drive, maximum carry, maximum roll. If you need anyting less than that, then you don't hit driver in the first place.

And yes, I grew up playing golf with wooden clubs and blades were the only option. 50 years later, it's insane how big and helpful modern golf clubs are.
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Negative Ghost Rider. The goal on the Drive is the low spin, zero is not an option. But minimal spin this what you're looking for on the drive, maximum carry, maximum roll. If you need anyting less than that, then you don't hit driver in the first place.

And yes, I grew up playing golf with wooden clubs and blades were the only option. 50 years later, it's insane how big and helpful modern golf clubs are.

Agreed on the drive, that's why I didn't mention it. Technically, you still want a little bottom you just want to moderate if for distance. When trying to reach the green there is always some sort of spin, whether it's for lift or to stick the ball. Maybe not every time, but I would venture to say most of the time.

My boss is close to a scratch golfer, I'll have to ask him when I see him next.
 

RRfireblade

Grammer Are For Stupids
Silver Member
Agreed on the drive, that's why I didn't mention it. Technically, you still want a little bottom you just want to moderate if for distance. When trying to reach the green there is always some sort of spin, whether it's for lift or to stick the ball. Maybe not every time, but I would venture to say most of the time.

My boss is close to a scratch golfer, I'll have to ask him when I see him next.

There's always spin. But as I said that's why you have a club for every shot. If you're trying to stick the ball on the drive, then you don't use the driver. We're comparing the break in pool, to the closest equivalent in golf which is the drive. Obviously every other Club in the bags going to have much more spin. I've been a plus handicap since I was 16 years old. Played mini tours (+6) in the 80s and 90s. Been at it a pretty long time. :)
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Negative Ghost Rider. The goal on the Drive is the low spin, zero is not an option. But minimal spin this what you're looking for on the drive, maximum carry, maximum roll. If you need anyting less than that, then you don't hit driver in the first place.

And yes, I grew up playing golf with wooden clubs and blades were the only option. 50 years later, it's insane how big and helpful modern golf clubs are.
the original big bertha(designed by cue guru r. helmstetter btw) was 190cc and we all thought it was huge. current 3wd's are bigger. golf clubs for joe public are so good now its unreal.
 

9Ballr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a break cue but my favorite cue to break with is my play cue.
That being said I don't use it often because I want to keep the tip (Sniper) as is for as long as possible.
 

RRfireblade

Grammer Are For Stupids
Silver Member
the original big bertha(designed by cue guru r. helmstetter btw) was 190cc and we all thought it was huge. current 3wd's are bigger. golf clubs for joe public are so good now its unreal.

460cc.

They came up with that size as the limit because they didn't think it was possible to even make them that big and or anyone could swing it. It was a random shot in the dark at a number to put in the rule book and now it's the standard in the industry. Insane really.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
460cc.

They came up with that size as the limit because they didn't think it was possible to even make them that big and or anyone could swing it. It was a random shot in the dark at a number to put in the rule book and now it's the standard in the industry. Insane really.
That's the limit now. The og BB was all of a 190cc. Before the 460 limit some co's were already working on 500cc+ drivers. Pumpkin on a stick. ;)
 

RRfireblade

Grammer Are For Stupids
Silver Member
That's the limit now. The og BB was all of a 190cc. Before the 460 limit some co's were already working on 500cc+ drivers. Pumpkin on a stick. ;)
There are bigger than 460 for sure. Non-conforming Obviously, been around for a while too. 460 became the limit like way back in the early 2000s like three or four I think. I think I've seen up to 750cc? Not only head size but the shaft length as well. CF has made almost anything possible. But yeah there's always been nonconforming clubs from putters right up to the big stick. If you're not trying to keep a legal handicap or playing in any type of competition, then whatever makes it easier and more fun. Knock yourself out. :) maybe literally.
 

Kjackxon

Member
I'm in the market for a new break cue. I have been using an inexpensive cue for breaking. It's 21oz, has a hard leather tip, and is about 13mm in diameter, just a plain jane no frills cue. My player is about 19oz, has a Kamui Soft, and is about 11.8mm with a long pro taper. Up until now, I haven't really seen much of a need for anything more than what I'm using as a break cue, but lots of dry breaks lately and I want to upgrade. Some league players use those 25 ounce cues, and the weight helps when trying to break hard results in loss of control. I know of a couple that are much heavier than 25 ounces too. I have also tried a couple of very light break cues that some high level players let me try. I felt like I wasn't really controlling my hit with those, but they broke hard. Then there's the phenolic tips, and while I seemed to miscue a lot with them, I really haven't used them a whole lot, but lots of higher level players use them. I understand the purpose of the break cue for saving your player from those harder hit and greater impact stresses, so a thicker ferrule is a good idea, and a conical taper makes sense for managing impacts too, but what other features of a break cue should I be looking for, and why?
I’m replying to the initial post - Somehow we detoured into golf and away from the question. If I was looking for a new break cue; I’d first try with a bar cue just to get a feel for the weight. Most good breakers are in the 17 to 19 oz range. A few and only a few go beyond due to the lost of cue ball control. Next establish a sound technique and routine. All tables are not similar, and dry breaks will happen. Watch Dr Dave’s videos on 8 and 9 ball break strategies. Keep the bar cue until you can get a consistent spread with a good opening shot. Don’t watch others blast away - Find a good strategy, move when you find a dead zone, and remember the purpose of the break - POSITION. At that point one of two things will happen. 1) Upgrade your existing player cue shaft and or tip. Samsara has an excellent leather tip that is very reactive - You’ll worry less about mis-cues. As for the shaft - There’s plenty of break cues out there that with a tip upgrade your runouts will increase. Bottom Line - Change your perspective and your performance will follow.
 

Brookeland Bill

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here’s my break cue. A Dufferin ‘High Run’ I bought for less than $50 and wrapped myself with brown paracord.
 

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Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I didn't read past the op, but I can say that if you're not used to a conical taper, rule those out right off the bat.
 

cjl0s

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
This session in league (8 ball) I have been seeming to get a lot of velocity out of my break but not a lot of things dropping. My opponent often gets a wide open table and I get a seat. I have been using a 15 oz. Schmelke with a triangle tip. The cue has a brass joint, is conical and is very weight forward. I am starting experimenting going back to a 21-22 oz Cuetec. Focusing on 2nd ball break and taking some speed off (more control) and seem to be having more success. It seems the heavier cue penetrates the side of the stack better instead of flying off the table. I don't know what to think but I am going to try this out for a few weeks. Maybe just something different. The Schmelke seems to work really well for bar 9 ball but with 8 ball not so much... Maybe 15 years ago I was stronger and as I age my velocity has decreased or my form is different. I understand the physics of a lighter cue but there are lots of factors that go into a successful break.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This session in league (8 ball) I have been seeming to get a lot of velocity out of my break but not a lot of things dropping. My opponent often gets a wide open table and I get a seat. I have been using a 15 oz. Schmelke with a triangle tip. The cue has a brass joint, is conical and is very weight forward. I am starting experimenting going back to a 21-22 oz Cuetec. Focusing on 2nd ball break and taking some speed off (more control) and seem to be having more success. It seems the heavier cue penetrates the side of the stack better instead of flying off the table. I don't know what to think but I am going to try this out for a few weeks. Maybe just something different. The Schmelke seems to work really well for bar 9 ball but with 8 ball not so much... Maybe 15 years ago I was stronger and as I age my velocity has decreased or my form is different. I understand the physics of a lighter cue but there are lots of factors that go into a successful break.

It's very likely not the cue but the table and how the rack is being put together that is causing your dry breaks. If the balls are tight, and not angled, table rails are normal and level, balls will go in more. As long as you are hitting the rack well. The second ball break is OK for some situations, like when the guy does not know how to rack (loose rack basically) or if you want more of a mess in the middle to play some slower games to out-move the opponent.

I tend to get a lot of "well I thought it was tight" comments when the rack is dead after a break. My thinking is "is it more likely that someone with 30 years of paying experience is the issue, or the APA 3 racking that is the issue" LOL If I'm lucky the guy re-racks for me again and usually does a better job the second time, even though that's not really a rule, they just feel bad. I should probably get into the habit of checking racks more often but it just feels wrong LOL I actually had a guy come up to me to shake my hand when we played on a practice table at some league night because I was giving him good racks. First time I remember that happening, he broke, then came over to tell me what a good job I did racking, which kinda shows us the low expectations good players have of a rack one gets.
 
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skiergd011013

Well-known member
I use a $60 amazon special. 17 or 18 oz, with an outsville hammerhead tip. Hits like a rock. I never bothered with having anything nice for the break.
 
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