Break Stats -- US Open 8-Ball Championship, July 2015

[Cameron Smith]

They did it in English Billiards several times to force the players away from long boring repetitive scoring methods.

Even with the Chinese 8-ball game they are break & running at 50%+ at the top level, with 3.5 inch rounded pockets, where it's nearly impossible to pot a shot along a rail with any speed.

If those were the tables in pubs and clubs, no one would play the game, and enthusiasts aren't going to be impressed watching top pros dribble half their shots and miss shots on tight tables that they can make on their club table.

As silly as trick shot productions have been, at least enthusiasts watch them, and I think they'd watch a game that demands more advanced shot-making, rather than the stun, stun, dribble, hide fare that has been on offer for the last 50 years.

Colin

Im not sure the situation is comparable to english billiards. They had to slow those players down to avoid consistent 30 min to 2 hour runs (or longer!). Here we are trying to avoid run outs for some reason. I don't think we need to try make players miss every 4-6 balls since it Makes situations more common where player 1 attempts the run out, misses and player 2 mops up an easy open table. Either that or it introduces a lot more safety play. I think 8 ball and 10 ball work best as run out games.

Slowing players down tends to work best with games that assign points for successful shots. For example, switching from straight rail to balk line or three cushion.

If we want more back and forth in our games while playing the balls in order, rotation is our best bet (on a 9 foot or 10 foot table).

 

[Colin Colenso]

Im not sure the situation is comparable to english billiards. They had to slow those players down to avoid consistent 30 min to 2 hour runs (or longer!). Here we are trying to avoid run outs for some reason. I don't think we need to try make players miss every 4-6 balls since it Makes situations more common where player 1 attempts the run out, misses and player 2 mops up an easy open table. Either that or it introduces a lot more safety play. I think 8 ball and 10 ball work best as run out games.

Slowing players down tends to work best with games that assign points for successful shots. For example, switching from straight rail to balk line or three cushion.

If we want more back and forth in our games while playing the balls in order, rotation is our best bet (on a 9 foot or 10 foot table).

Good points Cameron!

It's not back and forth that I'd like to see, but a game where potting and positional play determines the results more so than breaking, safety and kicking.

And beyond this, I want a game that creates opportunities and incentives for top players to play great shots, which are lower percentage shots, the kind they usually refuse in current rotation games.

We see a few more of these shots in 8 ball, because players know they are way against the odds if they don't finish their run out. In rotation games, players will rarely take on a 50/50 shot, unless it has a good chance of providing safety as well... e.g. Long bank with snooker cover likely.

Cheers,
Colin

 

[Skippy27]

So statistically speaking here.... it is no easier to dominate on a 7' table than it is on a 9' table as so many here claim it is.

If I missed something in those statistics please point me to it.

 

[Skippy27]

With 9-Ball and 10-Ball, depending on the rules, the use of 2-way shots can make counting safeties rather subjective/difficult.

A 2 way shot is an attempt to make a ball and yet leave the CB where you have another shot if you do but stick your opponent if you don't. Being you attempted to make the ball how would that be considered a safety according to any rules?

If it is, then just about every shot I take is a 2 way shot because if I miss I hope, pray and curse at the cue ball hoping I hit it in such a way that it sticks my opponent.

 

[AtLarge]

A 2 way shot is an attempt to make a ball and yet leave the CB where you have another shot if you do but stick your opponent if you don't. Being you attempted to make the ball how would that be considered a safety according to any rules?

If it is, then just about every shot I take is a 2 way shot because if I miss I hope, pray and curse at the cue ball hoping I hit it in such a way that it sticks my opponent.

With some 2-way shots, the safety is decidedly uppermost in the player's mind. In call-shot (but without the call-safe rule) 10-Ball, for example, players routinely call some pocket for the object ball even when making the ball is quite unlikely and the higher hope is to get safe. In the same situation, with call-shot/call-safe rules, the call would likely have been a safety. I cannot read the players' minds. I was merely saying that counting misses and safes can involve a bit of subjectivity.

 

[Skippy27]

With some 2-way shots, the safety is decidedly uppermost in the player's mind. In call-shot (but without the call-safe rule) 10-Ball, for example, players routinely call some pocket for the object ball even when making the ball is quite unlikely and the higher hope is to get safe. In the same situation, with call-shot/call-safe rules, the call would likely have been a safety. I cannot read the players' minds. I was merely saying that counting misses and safes can involve a bit of subjectivity.

I see where you are coming from. My mind set would be if the safe was easier than the actual shot and they made the safe but not the shot, I would probably call it a safe.