Break tips won’t stay on.

[lockwood]

I have been having issues with the newer break tips I put on coming off.
I make sure to scuff both tip a ferrule and have been using Loctite 301. After Installing them I try to pull them off to make sure they stay on.
Also my own personal break cues never have this problem.
What to do?
Jonathan Smith

 

[Zerksies]

I'd change glue. I'm not familiar with 301. I am using gorilla glue gel and haven't had an issue. I've probably put on about a dozen tips in the last six months

How long are you letting the tip dry? I put mine under a fan for about 5 minutes, then i start shaping.

 

[skiergd011013]

I had the same issue with my outsville phenolic hammerhead tip. I called them, and the guy told me to lick the bottom of the tip with a flame before putting it on. Might be worth a try.

 

[boogieman]

I'm not a cue maker, but I do a lot of tip installs and shaft cleanup and such.

Gorilla Glue Gel, get a fresh bottle.

Not sure how old your glue is but it does expire.

If you're re-attaching the tip after it popped you can also use 3 toothpicks taped around the ferrule as a guide to get the tip to line up again. I'd put masking tape one layer thick on the ferrule to keep glue off, then the toothpicks taped over that. When putting a tip that's already popped it can be difficult to line everything up and you don't have the luxury of trimming material.

EDIT: also make sure the tip is actually flat, can do so with high grit sandpaper put absolutely flat on a flat surface. Face it until it's all the same matte finish, sometimes there can be high and low spots that mess up the bond. Same with ferrule, make sure it's flat.

 

[lockwood]

I'm not a cue maker, but I do a lot of tip installs and shaft cleanup and such.

Gorilla Glue Gel, get a fresh bottle.

Not sure how old your glue is but it does expire.

If you're re-attaching the tip after it popped you can also use 3 toothpicks taped around the ferrule as a guide to get the tip to line up again. I'd put masking tape one layer thick on the ferrule to keep glue off, then the toothpicks taped over that. When putting a tip that's already popped it can be difficult to line everything up and you don't have the luxury of trimming material.

EDIT: also make sure the tip is actually flat, can do so with high grit sandpaper put absolutely flat on a flat surface. Face it until it's all the same matte finish, sometimes there can be high and low spots that mess up the bond. Same with ferrule, make sure it's flat.

Thank you I do the same to reattach.

 

[Sheldon]

Prep is huge. Must be flat, lightly scuffed, and CLEAN. Some tips and some ferrules do not take glue as well as others. A very light application of accelerator can help, also do not put too much pressure on the tip when you apply it.

 

[TrxR]

Will cleaning the tip base with alcohol or something first cause a problem? I'm think leather tips it might not be a qood idea as the leather would soak it up.

 

[robbycar]

I use epoxy for break tips.

 

[SSDiver2112]

Prep is huge. Must be flat, lightly scuffed, and CLEAN. Some tips and some ferrules do not take glue as well as others. A very light application of accelerator can help, also do not put too much pressure on the tip when you apply it.

I am curious what others have to say about the amount of pressure applied.

How would you describe the amount of pressure you apply?

I have seen many posts that say the opposite and, that firm pressure is needed to get the tip seated properly avoid bubbles.

 

[aphelps1]

I am curious what others have to say about the amount of pressure applied.

How would you describe the amount of pressure you apply?

I have seen many posts that say the opposite and, that firm pressure is needed to get the tip seated properly avoid bubbles.

Too much pressure will cause excessive glue squeeze out and make for a dry joint. Press your finger into the muscle of your forearm to indent it about a 1/4 inch, that is pressure I use on a tip to ferrule. Obviously this is unique to the individual, but will get you close. Your fingertip is also a really good indicator of pressure, so once you recognize that pressure with it, you can also just use your fingertip to apply the tip for about 45 seconds to a minute, then bring up your tailstock.

Alan

 

[kgoods]

I use epoxy for break tips.

Same, some will be fine with CA but others not so much. Easier to just use epoxy from the get go and not have to worry about them.

I put my personal Mako Clear on with Locktite ultra gel and it's going strong after 2 years, put a white diamond on a buddy's stick a couple months ago with fresh ultra gel and it popped off in a couple weeks. Put another on with epoxy and been going strong ever since.

 

[Dave38]

First thing, when you face the ferrule, and sand the tip, dry fit the tip and see if there is ANY rocking of the tip, if your lathe is slightly off, you can get a high point on the center of the ferrule and the tip will fly off after a few breaks no matter what glue, or scoring of the ferrule....etc. They MUST be flat to each other with no wiggle or rocking. Also, If the ferrule material is soft, like juma, isoplast, or the high heat resistant stuff from china....first, they are too soft and deform under the pressure of the break, and therefore the tip to ferrule bond gets broken when using a White Diamond or similarly hard tip. Second...some material may not be good to bond using the normal glues. 3M CA40 works well for those, but not cheap....$30-$40 for 1 ounce. For breakers, I use a phenolic ferrule... with no give, so no breaking the glue bond.

 

[lockwood]

Thank you for all the input.
I assume that the epoxy is the two part?
Jon

 

[3kushn]

I'm not a cue builder and haven't studied 301.
What I know about CA Glues is they're formulated to excel with different stresses.
Pull strength, Compression, Shear, PULL, and so on. All of these glues have pluses and minuses.
Moral is maybe your glue is great for everything but Pull Strength and you're breaking the bond with your test.

Rather than a pull test, do a shear test. Try to slide the tip off. Push sideways across the ferrule.
Your Pull test may be breaking the bond, if 301 is weak in that category.

A cue tip never experiences a force trying to PULL it off the ferrule.

Just a thought.

 

[kgoods]

Thank you for all the input.
I assume that the epoxy is the two part?
Jon

Yes, Gorilla 5 minute. However, it's the only place on a cue that I'd use 5 minute epoxy and I still let it go overnight before trimming.

Dave has the best advice above... flatness is KEY. And if you have the opportunity to replace the ferrule, phenolic is the way to go.

Also, the point he makes about the various ferrule materials is spot on. I did a cheap chinese cue that wouldn't keep a tip on no matter how perfect the install went nor how fresh the CA was, epoxy cured that problem as well. It was the ferrule material for sure.

 

[Dave38]

So, last night was handed this shaft and asked to replace the tip that fell off that had just been put on a couple of weeks ago by a local poolhall/billiard supply place. To me...this is the perfect example of why tips fall off.... tried to take the best pictures I could...you may need to zoom in, I don't know what they use to resurface the ferrule....BUT.. it was the most concave facing I have seen in the 25+ yrs I have been doing this.....Always check your lathe setup, and always sand the tip on a know flat surface, then check the tip on the ferrule to make sure NO rocking motion.....also put a flat edge across the ferrule now and then to make sure you don't have a concave like this.
Dave