Breaking Harder, Therefore From Farther Away

Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fargo 1000 on VP4
Silver Member
Does your CB hop up more if you break harder? Here's how I fixed that:

I've been using the BreakSpeed iPhone app since it came out, measuring most of my breaks in practice (and even in friendly matches) and making the adjustments that seem to make a difference (mostly being more careful to hit the CB exactly square).

My average controlled break speed (hitting the head ball square) has gone from 18mph to 20mph, and I'm making more balls as a result, but I also created a new problem: as my break speed increased the CB began popping up on contact with the head ball, and the faster my break speed the higher it popped. This wastes CB momentum that could be moving OBs closer to pockets, negating some of the positive effect of the speed increase (not to mention sending the CB on unpredictable trajectories), so I couldn't just let it happen.

Fortunately I'm familiar with the reason for this and knew that changing my break distance would have an effect. I reasoned that breaking harder must be causing the CB to take longer hops on its way to the rack, so I should lengthen the distance between the CB and the rack to compensate.

So as my break speed has grown I've gradually moved the CB back (toward the head rail) from my usual break spot and, whaddyaknow, it has worked great. In total I've moved the CB back about 4 inches now for an increase of about 2mph and the popping up has remained under control.

We've talked about this solution to popping up before - I thought a real-world experience with some actual measurements might be interesting and maybe useful.

pj
chgo

P.S. My usual breaking spot was 1 ball width off the side rail, on the head string. I'm now breaking from 1 ball width off the side rail, 4 inches behind the head string. I imagine I'll have to keep adjusting this distance as my controlled break speed keeps increasing.
 
MitchAlsup said:
No mater what you believe, the break is more about precision than about power.
Click to expand...

I'd say precision is essential because it maximizes power and cue ball control (that's why I was careful to say "controlled break speed"), but precision with greater speed is the best of both worlds.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Does your CB hop up more if you break harder? Here's how I fixed that:

I've been using the BreakSpeed iPhone app since it came out, measuring most of my breaks in practice (and even in friendly matches) and making the adjustments that seem to make a difference (mostly being more careful to hit the CB exactly square).

My average controlled break speed (hitting the head ball square) has gone from 18mph to 20mph, and I'm making more balls as a result, but I also created a new problem: as my break speed increased the CB began popping up on contact with the head ball, and the faster my break speed the higher it popped. This wastes CB momentum that could be moving OBs closer to pockets, negating some of the positive effect of the speed increase (not to mention sending the CB on unpredictable trajectories), so I couldn't just let it happen.

Fortunately I'm familiar with the reason for this and knew that changing my break distance would have an effect. I reasoned that breaking harder must be causing the CB to take longer hops on its way to the rack, so I should lengthen the distance between the CB and the rack to compensate.

So as my break speed has grown I've gradually moved the CB back (toward the head rail) from my usual break spot and, whaddyaknow, it has worked great. In total I've moved the CB back about 4 inches now for an increase of about 2mph and the popping up has remained under control.

We've talked about this solution to popping up before - I thought a real-world experience with some actual measurements might be interesting and maybe useful.

pj
chgo

P.S. My usual breaking spot was 1 ball width off the side rail, on the head string. I'm now breaking from 1 ball width off the side rail, 4 inches behind the head string. I imagine I'll have to keep adjusting this distance as my controlled break speed keeps increasing.
Click to expand...

It's a wonder how moving the cue ball backward just a few inches can make the one ball contact so much more solid. Frank the Barber taught me that adjustment.

When the cue ball is hopping excessively on contact with the rack, I think what happens is we subconciously hold back for fear of flying the cue ball off the table. Once that fear is diminished, we can let it loose a little.

Chris

Ps. Do you think the I phone app is accurate and consistent? Seems like it is to me.
 
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Interesting info Pat, thanks for sharing.. I bought the break app when it came out too and am embarrassed to say that I have yet to try it.. Looks like tonight I may give it a try..
 
TATE said:
It's a wonder how moving the cue ball backward just a few inches can make the one ball contact so much more solid. Frank the Barber taught me that adjustment.
Click to expand...

If you're starting from farther back than the head string, it can also work to move the CB closer to the rack (because the CB takes more than one hop on its way to the rack, and you can move the 2nd-to-last hop up rather than the last hop back).

Do you think the I phone app is accurate and consistent? Seems like it is to me.
Click to expand...

I think it's extremely consistent - to the point that I can predict my break speed pretty closely by how squarely it feels like I hit the CB (the variance is probably about +/- 1/2 mph, but it was more before I realized how important the precision of that hit is). There's also a predictable arc to my break speeds throughout a match or practice session, starting a little low, then rising to my maximum, then dropping off a little as I get more tired.

I think it's also extremely accurate, because the measurements being used are very finely calibrated (distance to a fraction of an inch; time to a hundredth of a second) and the math to convert that to mph is simple. I think this (and the fact that it's direction-independent) makes it much more accurate than radar guns.

It's a great little app - I just wish they'd hurry up with the fix for the iPhone 4's microphone so I can quit using the earphones (it works fine with the iPhone 3's microphone).

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
If you're starting from farther back than the head string, it can also work to move the CB closer to the rack (because the CB takes more than one hop on its way to the rack, and you can move the 2nd-to-last hop up rather than the last hop back).



I think it's extremely consistent - to the point that I can predict my break speed pretty closely by how squarely it feels like I hit the CB (the variance is probably about +/- 1/2 mph, but it was more before I realized how important the precision of that hit is). There's also a predictable arc to my break speeds throughout a match or practice session, starting a little low, then rising to my maximum, then dropping off a little as I get more tired.

I think it's also extremely accurate, because the measurements being used are very finely calibrated (distance to a fraction of an inch; time to a hundredth of a second) and the math to convert that to mph is simple. I think this (and the fact that it's direction-independent) makes it much more accurate than radar guns.

It's a great little app - I just wish they'd hurry up with the fix for the iPhone 4's microphone so I can quit using the earphones (it works fine with the iPhone 3's microphone).

pj
chgo
Click to expand...



Good point.

Another issue is the path of the cue. The forceful break effort can change the arc of the cue. My buddy helped me with a tip. He said to concentrate on keeping the swinging pendulum motion in my arm movement - like a golf swing or an underhand pitch. As I tried to break harder and harder, I was losing the arc of my stroke - and it became more of a stabbing motion, and the cue was being jerked off line.

This tip helped me relax the arm and shoulder better and focus on timing. It increased both the speed and accuracy of my break.

Chris
 
Good post!

TATE said:
...

When the cue ball is hopping excessively on contact with the rack, I think what happens is we subconciously hold back for fear of flying the cue ball off the table. Once that fear is diminished, we can let it loose a little.

...
Click to expand...

Very good point here. I believe I do this.

I'm going to experiment with moving the rock back a little at a time during my next table time session. Thanks!

-Abe - i4pool
 
Patrick Johnson said:
.

So as my break speed has grown I've gradually moved the CB back (toward the head rail) from my usual break spot and, whaddyaknow, it has worked great. In total I've moved the CB back about 4 inches now for an increase of about 2mph and the popping up has remained under control.

We've talked about this solution to popping up before - I thought a real-world experience with some actual measurements might be interesting and maybe useful.
Click to expand...

Nice report, Pat. This is what RandyG and company call "the bounce factor" in Pool School.

Fred
 
For someone who can't run out, I spend too much time working on my break. Possibly the rest of my game will catch up one day... :(


I've spent a good amount of time working on speeds and cueball control. I also find 20mph to be a great break speed for 9ball. I pocket more balls at 20mph, more consistently than I do breaking above or below 20mph. It's a good speed to control the cueball as well, while still hitting pretty hard.
 
In the last 3 years we've added a "break cloth" for tournament matches. The cloth is Simonis just cut into 3 inch squares.

Two very noticable results;
The breaker takes more time to make sure the ball is in position and on the cloth.
The 'christmas tree' pattern is only barely visible after 11 months of play.

One player stated that the use of the cloth slows the cue ball down.
One player likes the way the cue ball doesn't "HOP" when it hits the One ball.

Players have (overall) commented on how much their break has improved. This may be coincidental. You khow how pool players are.. :rolleyes:
 
Patrick Johnson said:
If you're starting from farther back than the head string, it can also work to move the CB closer to the rack (because the CB takes more than one hop on its way to the rack, and you can move the 2nd-to-last hop up rather than the last hop back).



I think it's extremely consistent - to the point that I can predict my break speed pretty closely by how squarely it feels like I hit the CB (the variance is probably about +/- 1/2 mph, but it was more before I realized how important the precision of that hit is). There's also a predictable arc to my break speeds throughout a match or practice session, starting a little low, then rising to my maximum, then dropping off a little as I get more tired.

I think it's also extremely accurate, because the measurements being used are very finely calibrated (distance to a fraction of an inch; time to a hundredth of a second) and the math to convert that to mph is simple. I think this (and the fact that it's direction-independent) makes it much more accurate than radar guns.

It's a great little app - I just wish they'd hurry up with the fix for the iPhone 4's microphone so I can quit using the earphones (it works fine with the iPhone 3's microphone).

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

P.S. I also think the app is consistent because I've done simultaneous measurements with other players who have the app (comparing two iPhone 3s, an iPhone 4 with an iPhone 3, and an iPhone 4 with a Droid phone) and they've always measured very close to each other.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
P.S. I also think the app is consistent because I've done simultaneous measurements with other players who have the app (comparing two iPhone 3s, an iPhone 4 with an iPhone 3, and an iPhone 4 with a Droid phone) and they've always measured very close to each other.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

I had just asked because someone said the app they got gave some false readings. The two I've seen seemed to be very consistent once properly set up but this confirms it.

It's was a good idea. It's really an economical way to measure the break speed. At one time I was thinking of buying a sports radar detector - the type that can be set up unmanned - but now I can just borrow my buddy's i- phone.

I think at the US Open 10 ball TAR had one set up. It was interesting to see that 20 - 21-22 mph was pretty much the usual number in 10 ball. I figured the pro break speeds would be higher than that, especially in 10 ball where a big power break seems to rule.

My pathetic break clocks in at a paltry 19 mph. I hate my break!

Chris
 
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TATE said:
...someone said the app they got gave some false readings.
Click to expand...
I get a false reading occasionally, probably from ambient noise confusing the measurement. But it's not very often and easily recognized (very low or very high speeds), so no real problem.

The only actual problem I've had was when I switched from the iPhone 3 to the iPhone 4 (because they changed the built-in microphone), and that was easily fixed by using the earbuds, which have a microphone like the iPhone 3 did. I just noticed at the pool hall tonight that the latest app update I downloaded last night (Version 1.5.0) seems to have corrected the problem with the iPhone 4's microphone (yahoo!, I hope).

pj
chgo
 
Fred still has it. Yes, the Bounce Factor and learning how to adjust to it....SPF=randyg
 
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