Bridge Length

[skipbales]

A couple of instructors (one of them in the top tier of the world ranking list) have told me to shorten my bridge length. They are recommending no more than 8" and often much less. I didn't question this as I know they were trying to improve my accuracy so I have tried it for several months. The goal was to get me to hit a more precise spot on the cue ball. They said the pros can do this with a long bridge but I would benefit from a shorter bridge.

Watching some final table world championship matches I noticed almost no one was using that short a bridge. Many top players and instructors use quite a long bridge. The pros seem to vary quite a bit depending on the type of shot. I notice they will extend quite a bit if they can incorporate a rail. For short soft shots they may well use a short bridge but even then, some don't.

So I tried shooting with a longer bridge just to see what would happen. I was surprised to find I cut several missed shots off some practice drills and felt much more in control of my stroke. The things I noticed in particular are: 1. I could see better. By getting further down and further from the cue ball and object ball I could see them both at the same time more often and line them up better (I am 67 years old and not as flexible as I used to be). 2. My stroke was smoother and longer. I could draw more consistently. 3. My speed control was better. Just because I COULD take a long stroke didn't mean I had to. I could simply draw back a shorter distance for softer shots. When I needed more pace I could build the speed more gradually and judge the overall speed better.

The only real information I have seen on bridge length was Dr. Dave's discussion of its affect on the amount of correction when using BHE.

Is there a best bridge length and is it the same for all players? Your comments are welcome.

 

[randyg]

Bridge lengths vary according to players, shots and situations.
A standard bridge length is the one that is the most productive for you. That could be anywhere from 6-14 inches., depending on your body style.

Remember: Bridge lengths are measured from the back of the cue ball to the vee in your bridge hand.

randyg

 

[Colin Colenso]

It made more sense to bridge from 8 to 10 inches with the traditional high squirt cues, as longer bridges would increase the squirt errors if a player accidentally hit to the left or right.

Many of the current players are using lower deflection / squirt cues so bridges of 12 to 16 inches work quite well, even if the stroke goes a bit off line.

I agree that a longer bridge helps with a smoother power stroke and speed control, but it comes with a loss of accuracy of hit on the CB, so this is a bit of a personal choice issue.

Another benefit of a longer bridge is that increases the tuning resolution of the aim. If a player strokes straight and keeps a still bridge V, then the bridge V actually determines the aim line. A 1mm error on an 8 inch bridge would need to be a 2mm error at a 16 inch bridge. The same is true of the negative effects of unintended bridge movements with a longer bridge.

For those who know their cue's pivot point, I'd recommend they bridge an inch or two behind this for most shots, shortening up to the pivot point on power shots. This could produce awkwardly long bridges on the lowest deflection cues. My cue's PP is 12 inches with 11.8mm tip, standard ferrule, so I often bridge around 13 inches.

Colin

 

[skipbales]

Thank you for the reply and I didn't know exactly how it was measured so that is a good tip.

 

[skipbales]

Thanks for the input, very valuable to me. I am probably most comfortable with 11-13 inches and shorter for soft or precision shots. Mostly I need the longer stroke for long shots and almost all draw shots. I not only draw better but can more accurately determine the AMOUNT of draw with the longer bridge. I need the longer bridge to get down low on long shots and be able to see both the cue ball and object ball at the same time. With the short bridge on a long shot I am forced to move my head up and down.

I also noticed, from watching the pros, they really extended back off the table as far as they could on shots where the cue ball was against the rail. I really like this. I always used the front section of the rail. By moving to the back section and bridging further back off the rail I am hitting the "off the rail shots" cleaner.

 

[randyg]

Thanks for the input, very valuable to me. I am probably most comfortable with 11-13 inches and shorter for soft or precision shots. Mostly I need the longer stroke for long shots and almost all draw shots. I not only draw better but can more accurately determine the AMOUNT of draw with the longer bridge. I need the longer bridge to get down low on long shots and be able to see both the cue ball and object ball at the same time. With the short bridge on a long shot I am forced to move my head up and down.

I also noticed, from watching the pros, they really extended back off the table as far as they could on shots where the cue ball was against the rail. I really like this. I always used the front section of the rail. By moving to the back section and bridging further back off the rail I am hitting the "off the rail shots" cleaner.

Question:

If you have a 13 inch bridge, do you pull your cue all the way back on every shot?

Thanks
randyg

 

[bbb]

It made more sense to bridge from 8 to 10 inches with the traditional high squirt cues, as longer bridges would increase the squirt errors if a player accidentally hit to the left or right.

Many of the current players are using lower deflection / squirt cues so bridges of 12 to 16 inches work quite well, even if the stroke goes a bit off line.

I agree that a longer bridge helps with a smoother power stroke and speed control, but it comes with a loss of accuracy of hit on the CB, so this is a bit of a personal choice issue.

Another benefit of a longer bridge is that increases the tuning resolution of the aim. If a player strokes straight and keeps a still bridge V, then the bridge V actually determines the aim line. A 1mm error on an 8 inch bridge would need to be a 2mm error at a 16 inch bridge. The same is true of the negative effects of unintended bridge movements with a longer bridge.

For those who know their cue's pivot point, I'd recommend they bridge an inch or two behind this for most shots, shortening up to the pivot point on power shots. This could produce awkwardly long bridges on the lowest deflection cues. My cue's PP is 12 inches with 11.8mm tip, standard ferrule, so I often bridge around 13 inches.

Colin

im sorry im so stupid but i have no idea what you are trying to say here.
:embarrassed2::embarrassed2:

 

[skipbales]

Question:

If you have a 13 inch bridge, do you pull your cue all the way back on every shot?

Thanks
randyg

good point. No, not at all, in fact rarely. Mostly I bridge long to be able to get down behind the ball better. Short shot short stroke, longer shot, longer stroke. Draw shots and force follow a little longer to develop the necessary pace without forcing it.

 

[skipbales]

im sorry im so stupid but i have no idea what you are trying to say here.
:embarrassed2::embarrassed2:

One use of the pivot point is to know at what point BHE cancels squirt correctly for a long shot with side spin. Dr. Dave says the range here is 8-11". Like all "rules" in pool, there are a lot of variables. Low deflection shafts vary from normal by several inches. There may be other uses for pivot point but this is the one I am most familiar with. He is also discussing the effect of being off a little in your stroke with a short bridge vs. a long one. The error is multiplied exponentially as you get further from the cue ball.

 

[skipbales]

im sorry im so stupid but i have no idea what you are trying to say here.
:embarrassed2::embarrassed2:

I believe my pivot point is roughly 11" so 12-13 on normal full length shots would be where I would fall.

 

[Colin Colenso]

im sorry im so stupid but i have no idea what you are trying to say here.
:embarrassed2::embarrassed2:

It means, that if you double the distance of your bridge, a 2mm sideways movement of the bridge V creates the same change in angle of aim as you would get for a 1mm sideways movement at half the bridge distance. So it's a bit like having one of those fine tune dials on a radio as the same sideways movement creates half the aim angle change. With say a 4 inch bridge, slight sideways movement of the bridge changes the aim angle very noticeably.

Hope that makes sense.

That said, the longer bridge tends to make it harder to hit the CB in the center which can reduce aspects of accuracy with aim, such as squirt and induced throw. If the bridge length happens to be an inch or two back of the pivot point, on many shots at medium speeds, these potential cueing errors which effect squirt and induced throw are largely cancelled out.

For example. You're aligning CB 2 foot away from the OB which is 2 foot from the pocket in a straight line. You accidentally hit the CB 3mm left off centre. With your bridge a 2 inches behind your pivot point, the CB has net squirt of about 1mm to the right of the center of the OB. However, the CB has 15% of max spin on it, which throws the OB about a degree to the right, straightening up the shot from the line of centers which was heading a degree to the left of the pocket. This cancelling method tends to work for both sides hit errors on straightish shots but only on OE stroking errors on finer cut shots.

Note that swerve can also act as a compensatory (error reduction) factor too on longer and slower shots mainly.

Search youtube for Back Hand English if you're not familiar with a cue's Pivot Point. I'll attach a couple of PJ's diagrams that may help also.

Colin

 

[bbb]

colin
thanks for taking the time to explain that.......:thumbup:
i will read and re read it a few times so it sinks in

 

[martind2112]

I'm 5'6". I find that having a long bridge induces me into swinging the pendulum too far back, which introduces wobble in my stroke. So I keep it around 8". I can go as short as 2" for a nip shot or super soft shot, for example, playing a safety in 1P or 14.1.

As far as squirt/swerve compensation, using a Cuetec R360 shaft, I only use FHE, as the natural pivot length I estimate at around 22"!

 

[skipbales]

I'm 5'6". I find that having a long bridge induces me into swinging the pendulum too far back, which introduces wobble in my stroke. So I keep it around 8". I can go as short as 2" for a nip shot or super soft shot, for example, playing a safety in 1P or 14.1.

As far as squirt/swerve compensation, using a Cuetec R360 shaft, I only use FHE, as the natural pivot length I estimate at around 22"!

I am 6' and oddly the longer stroke smooths me out a little. I wobble more with the shorter bridge if I have to shoot a long shot or a power draw. A short nipper the short bridge even down to 1 or 2 inches is fine.

 

[DeadStick]

As far as squirt/swerve compensation, using a Cuetec R360 shaft, I only use FHE, as the natural pivot length I estimate at around 22"!

I haven't played with an R360, but I doubt if they're lower deflection than my Z2 shafts, which measure out to only a 12.5-13" pivot point for me when using a firm straight-in shot from about 2 diamonds away from the OB (so no swerve).

Have you actually tested like this to get to the 22" number, or are you guessing?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

... using a Cuetec R360 shaft, I only use FHE, as the natural pivot length I estimate at around 22"!

I'd be surprised to find that's true. My custom engineered 10mm hollow point cue squirts less than any commercially made cue I've tried, and it's pivot length is only about 20".

But I haven't tried the R360, so maybe I'll be happily surprised.

What width is the tip?

pj
chgo

 

[Colin Colenso]

I haven't played with an R360, but I doubt if they're lower deflection than my Z2 shafts, which measure out to only a 12.5-13" pivot point for me when using a firm straight-in shot from about 2 diamonds away from the OB (so no swerve).

Have you actually tested like this to get to the 22" number, or are you guessing?

I agree re: the R360. 12.75mm ferrule I think, though light weight. Also a youtube squirt test on it shows it squirts a fair bit more thant the predator z and heaps more than the z2. I'd guess it's actual pivot point is around 11 inches.

Have to question your z2 test a little Deadstick. I haven't tested one much, but in the few hits I had I was fishing around the 16-17 inch area.

I do the test over 4 diamonds and hit very hard. Preferably on a slick cloth.

Part of why you're getting 12" may be the closeness of the CB and OB you're using. Another issue can be the tendency for a player's bridge to shift a little in the direction of the pivot. This indicates shorter pivot point lengths.

Be interested to see what you come up with if you try from 4 diamonds apart and really lock the bridge in.

To confirm PJ's findings, I had a 9mm brass ferrule tip, that I use for snooker and UK pool. It's pivot point with the US balls is 20-22 inches... I'm not 100% sure, because I'm hesitant to hit my test shot hard enough at high offset, to minimize the influence of swerve.

My 11.8 mm pool cue, standard materials has a PP at 12". It used to be 12.8mm and the PP was around 9 inches.

Colin

 

[martind2112]

I haven't played with an R360, but I doubt if they're lower deflection than my Z2 shafts, which measure out to only a 12.5-13" pivot point for me when using a firm straight-in shot from about 2 diamonds away from the OB (so no swerve).

Have you actually tested like this to get to the 22" number, or are you guessing?

I haven't tested diligently, since I figured it was obvious that any comfortable bridge length (for me) was too short for BHE. From the head spot I shot firmly to the foot rail. The long string is marked on my table, so I can see if I'm off.

I couldn't believe the result myself, but I was reassured by that fact that Dr Dave found similar results with a Predator Z shaft, mind you:

"I used the experiment described above to measure the pivot lengths for several of my cues.
Here are the results: Players XIX (12.75 mm shaft): 12.7 inches; Predator Z (11.85 mm shaft):
20.2 inches; Stinger break/jump cue (13.5 mm shaft): 9.2 inches."

22" inches might be a couple of inches off.

BHE and FHE, believe it or not, is somewhat of a new concept (and a revelation) to me. I hadn't come across this in the several books I read. Thanks Dr Dave for making this info available. I used to more or less do a parallel shift, and compensating by experience for squerve.

 

[martind2112]

What width is the tip?
pj
chgo

It's smaller than 13mm. That, I can feel. I haven't measured it. From google I get 12.5 or 12.75 - I can't say for sure.

The tip is stock Tiger Everest.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Keep in mind that the pivot point is measured from the bridge V to the edge of the CB. There is 3 to 4 inches from the bridge V to the finger tips, so when players talk about 2 and 4 inch bridges, they are probably at 5 or 6 inches. Anything under 6 inches is extremely cramped.