Brunswick Victor pool table

[WHSII]

That's because they're not made from slate, they're actually made out of Brunstone, the dark veins are from stacker boards between the slates to allow air flow while they dry out after milling them. If you take a real close look at them you won't see any circular machine grinding marks on the surface like you do on slate. They're also not pin & dowel in the seams. This model table is one of the cheapest models Brunswick offered at the time for those that just couldn't afford to buy a well built Brunswick table.when the boards are used to keep the prices apart are used, the drying/shrinkage is less effective under the boards, which leaves those areas slightly higher the rest of the surface. Block sanding is the only way to take down that area and blend it with the rest of the surface.

Well Glen,

That makes scene, but researching earlier posts, you stated that after the war, they started using Brunstone.

I found a link to the patents, and found that Brunswick patented it in early 1980's.

Found another off site thread that stated:


"Brunswick tried to market a synthetic bed on their tables two times I know of, calling it Brunstone and Bluestone. Common on early Gold Crown commercial tables of the 1960s and still around in the 1970s, these were the best non-slate beds ever made (although a little brittle). They subsequently discontinued use and production and now use only slate I believe."

This table, being at the bottom of the line, as you say "cheep" was described to have 1 1/8" slate.

I know what sandstone looks like, I cannot see any grain or sparkle, the corners that i repaired were layered like slate would chip or oyster.

There might have been a topping applied, but it is layered in the picture above, like slate.

1909 /1910, did the thought of Brunstone exist?

WH

 

[tjohnson]

Well Glen,

That makes scene, but researching earlier posts, you stated that after the war, they started using Brunstone.

I found a link to the patents, and found that Brunswick patented it in early 1980's.

Found another off site thread that stated:


"Brunswick tried to market a synthetic bed on their tables two times I know of, calling it Brunstone and Bluestone. Common on early Gold Crown commercial tables of the 1960s and still around in the 1970s, these were the best non-slate beds ever made (although a little brittle). They subsequently discontinued use and production and now use only slate I believe."

This table, being at the bottom of the line, as you say "cheep" was described to have 1 1/8" slate.

I know what sandstone looks like, I cannot see any grain or sparkle, the corners that i repaired were layered like slate would chip or oyster.


There might have been a topping applied, but it is layered in the picture above, like slate.

1909 /1910, did the thought of Brunstone exist?

WH

I second your assessment that your rock slabs are slate and not sandstone. Your picture (which doesn't seem to load now...) showed the layering (known as "foliation" or "slaty cleavage") that is characteristic of slate.


RKC, very interesting observation that the stacking of slates and uneven drying causes those ridges in the slabs. In your experience, do you see this phenomenon in both slate and sandstone slabs?

 

[realkingcobra]

I second your assessment that your rock slabs are slate and not sandstone. Your picture (which doesn't seem to load now...) showed the layering (known as "foliation" or "slaty cleavage") that is characteristic of slate.


RKC, very interesting observation that the stacking of slates and uneven drying causes those ridges in the slabs. In your experience, do you see this phenomenon in both slate and sandstone slabs?

Only in Brunstone, as it don't go through the same grinding process slate does, which is why the absence of grinding mark/curved lines in the playing surface. And for those that don't think Brunstone don't shell' split, I have some Brunstone in my shop that says otherwise.

 

[realkingcobra]

Well Glen,

That makes scene, but researching earlier posts, you stated that after the war, they started using Brunstone.

I found a link to the patents, and found that Brunswick patented it in early 1980's.

Found another off site thread that stated:


"Brunswick tried to market a synthetic bed on their tables two times I know of, calling it Brunstone and Bluestone. Common on early Gold Crown commercial tables of the 1960s and still around in the 1970s, these were the best non-slate beds ever made (although a little brittle). They subsequently discontinued use and production and now use only slate I believe."

This table, being at the bottom of the line, as you say "cheep" was described to have 1 1/8" slate.

I know what sandstone looks like, I cannot see any grain or sparkle, the corners that i repaired were layered like slate would chip or oyster.

There might have been a topping applied, but it is layered in the picture above, like slate.

1909 /1910, did the thought of Brunstone exist?

WH

Don't believe the dates of patent for Brunstone....it was in use on the Anniversary and Centennial tables long before the GC1s were produced.

 

[realkingcobra]

I finally got the slate moved from West Virginia to Kentucky, got it set in place to acclimate.

I noticed three milling marks in each piece of slate. You can feel a raised section at the edge of each.

Is this something to be concerned about? If so, how would you address it?

Thanks,
WH

When you wiped down the surface with a wet rag, did you see any grinding marks? The Brunstone surface looks kind of like a sharpening stone used to sharpen knives. If you take a scraper Chad lightly drag it over the surface, if it's been ground flat, the grinding line/marks will show up, even faintly.

 

[realkingcobra]

When you wiped down the surface with a wet rag, did you see any grinding marks? The Brunstone surface looks kind of like a sharpening stone used to sharpen knives. If you take a scraper Chad lightly drag it over the surface, if it's been ground flat, the grinding line/marks will show up, even faintly.

From Brunswick


Victor
Technical Information: The following information is from page 13 of the 1912 Carom and Pocket Tables catalog of the Brunswick-Balke-Collender Company.

The table was manufactured under at least 18 patents, awarded from 1892 to 1905.

The Victor table is made in hardwood, finished in Antwerp color so as to bring out the grain of the wood to the best possible effect. It is substantially constructed, furnished with slate 1" in thickness and equipped with Electric Quick Acting Cushions. Furnished either as billiard or pocket billiard.

The table has not the same superfine grade of wood, finish and polish made use of in our standard billiard and pocket tables, but it is well constructed and will serve the purpose for which it is intended. It is especially adapted for small cigar stores, barber shops, etc., where the quality of a better grade of table might not be appreciated. The outfit furnished is what is termed The Victor and includes one dozen cues, one set composition pocket or billiard balls, cue rack and all of the other incidentals belonging to a billiard or pocket table."

 

[tjohnson]

Only in Brunstone, as it don't go through the same grinding process slate does, which is why the absence of grinding mark/curved lines in the playing surface. And for those that don't think Brunstone don't shell' split, I have some Brunstone in my shop that says otherwise.

Interesting. I wonder how many different quarries Brunswick used for their sandstones and slates over the years? I have definitely seen foliated/layered sandstone in the wild (technically metamorphosed sandstone) and from your observation it sounds like Brunswick used some of this as well.

 

[WHSII]

When you wiped down the surface with a wet rag, did you see any grinding marks? The Brunstone surface looks kind of like a sharpening stone used to sharpen knives. If you take a scraper Chad lightly drag it over the surface, if it's been ground flat, the grinding line/marks will show up, even faintly.

Hello RKC,

I wiped down the playing surface and did not see any grinding marks as you described. I have seen them in pictures, so I do know what you are talking about.

I did a quick blocking over one of the lines in the playing surface, it leveled out fine, but the stripe is darker than the rest of the area.

I would not say that the surface looks like the texture of a sharpening stone, it is very smooth and tight.

In the picture that shows the corner damage, you can see the 1/2 round nut that the rail bolt goes into. It is in a 1" hole, with looks like lead holding it in place. The lead had center punch marks in it on the top side, like they were trying to tighten the nut. That is why I suggested that they might have poured the surface.

I guess they could have tightened it up after the damage.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts.

WH

 

[WHSII]

Well Gents, I have not quit working on the pool table...

I have set the slate set, leveled it, repaired damaged areas, blocked sanded the imperfections, and now feel good about the playing surface. The sticky on leveling the table was very helpful.

I mounted the rails and found that the old sub rail wood was not true. I made a jig and machined the face that the rubber will attach to, the height of the sub rail is 1 3/4", it worked out to 22 degrees.

Now, anyplace I put the K-66 rubber sample, the nose of the rubber is 1 27/64" off of the slate. The nose of the rubber is 2" from the edge of the slate, giving me the proper width rail to rail. The table when i tore it down, had K-66 on it, so I milled everything to fit the K-66. Much less milling than to go with K-55.

I had to cut down the bottom bevel to match the angle of the K-66 rubber and it's thickness. I also cut a 1/16th grove, 1/2" deep, to accept the cloth so it would not change the height of the rail.

Getting closer, any thought are appreciated.

WH

 

[WHSII]

Getting closer!

 

[WHSII]

I completed the "Brunswick Victor pool table" today. I shot a game of 8 ball against myself, I waded over all the tools and support items, not fun, but the table played great. Faster with the Simmons cloth that it ever was, time will tell, but I am very pleased with the outcome. (By the way, I won!)

Now to finish the room...

I would like to thank all the people here that have given me advice and criticism over the past year. (53 weeks from the time I brought the table from West Virginia to Kentucky, to completion.)

I would especially like to thank Real King Cobra aka Glen Hancock, Glen can be blunt at times, but his knowledge is top shelf. The videos he did for Simmons are amazing. The thread on "Leveling the Slate" on this board is priceless...

I can build anything out of wood, the bed, legs, and rail restoration was just a fun project. Cutting the sub-rails to fit the newer rail rubber, and closing down the pockets to newer specs was a lot of research, then using my abilities to make them to spec. The covering of the table, though, was beyond my knowledge and skills.

I was really concerned about covering the table, I considered having a local party cover it for me. After reading on this board, of the inconsistencies of the mechanics quality around the nation, I bought Glenn's videos for covering the table, I realize that it was designed for "Mechanics" to improve their skills, but they break down each step for anyone to accomplish the process.

My first rail took me over five hours, I watched the section of the video two dozen times. I pulled a bunch of staples, but it finally came out proper. The last rail took me 30 minutes. a couple of pulled staples, but it looked great. I am still amazed that he spent 15 minutes of the video explaining how to cover the rail. If he had not had to show what he was doing, 10 minutes would have been wasting time.

Stretching the bed cloth was a breeze, it took me six hours or so, going back and re watching the video, but hey, I was only working for myself.

The video was covering a Gold Crown Brunswick table, it stated when indexing the cloth, "an antique table or one with smaller side pockets will be different as far as side pocket slack". I did a bit of research but could not find any reference to stretch index spacing at the side pockets, for an antique table, I called Glen, got his voice mail. I did not leave a message, but within five minutes, he called back. He is a joy to talk to, he told me what I needed to know.

If Glen would come and look at my table, I am sure he would find a flaw or two, but hey, he does this for a living...

Thanks again for all the people that have help me with this project.

Now to finish the room!

WH

Photos from start to finish.

https://photos.google.com/u/0/

 

[realkingcobra]

Whew, glad that project is done....time to go fishing...LOL