Butt balance points

dquarasr

dquarasr

Registered
Yesterday I purchased a used Adam AD-DX2 to complement the Adam I already owned (the model and vintage of which I don't know).

My original Adam, the one with the green linen wrap, weighs 20.0 oz. The new-to-me Adam, with the green fake decal inlays and light colored linen weighs 19.3 oz. In my hand the DX2 feels heavier even though it weighs less. Hmm.

My original Adam's butt weighs 15.9 oz. The DX2 weighs 15.2 oz. The shafts are the same at 4.1/4.1 oz.

Still a mystery, then, why the DX2 feels heavier in my hand. So I checked the balance points of the butts, represented by the toothpicks.

The balance point of the older Adam butt is nearly two inches lower on the cue compared to the DX2. The balance point of the older one is virtually exactly where I would hold the cue for a perfect 90-degree grip for my normal 8-inch bridge length. The balance point of the newer DX2 butt is forward of that grip point, so it has more weight in front of my hand than does the older cue. This may explain why it feels heavier in my hand. The balance points of the fully assembled cues are similarly disparate, about 2 inches farther back on the older cue.

What does this mean? I don't know. I don't seem to notice any difference in the hits between the cues (there is a nominal difference; the older has a Kamikaze Elite Medium, the DX2 has a new Elite Soft).

Does anyone know how the balance point of the butt or the entire cue influences its performance other than how it feels in the hand? Is there an advantage one over the other, other than the confidence and feel in the player's hand?


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Yes the balance point changes how the cue feels, although you measured it without the shaft, it's normally done with the shaft since the weight of the shaft is there as well when you are playing.

Rear weight makes the cue feel heavier in the swing.
 
The closer to your hand position the less torque your hand needs to hold the cue in a constant position.

Maybe you are not feeling the weight of the cue, but the weight forward of your hand. To check hold both cues (one at a time) horizontal but rest the tip on the rail of the table:: Which cue feels heavier now ? (that we have removed the TQ from the hand)
 
MitchAlsup said:
The closer to your hand position the less torque your hand needs to hold the cue in a constant position.

Maybe you are not feeling the weight of the cue, but the weight forward of your hand. To check hold both cues (one at a time) horizontal but rest the tip on the rail of the table:: Which cue feels heavier now ? (that we have removed the TQ from the hand)
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That's it. Walking around during pre-shot routine, the cue feels heavier due to the torque, as you mention. Down on the shot with the shaft in my bridge, the lighter cue does indeed feel ever-so-slightly lighter.

So, much ado about nothing. Thanks for pointing out the effect of the torque on the hand when the shaft is not in the bridge.

Wow, I feel kinda silly posting this now. Naivete.
 
just based on the picture and not any real knowledge i would have to say the steel joint would make a difference ?
 
soyale said:
My cue used to have a wood-wood joint with an import radial joint, and i had it converted to stainless steel so i could use a normal shaft. The cue became much more forward weighted after the change
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Of course you put more weight up front on the butt, it’s going to change the static balance point.
 
Fatboy said:
Of course you put more weight up front on the butt, it’s going to change the static balance point.
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yeah, thats why i pointed it out. the gentleman seems confused as to why the cue on the right has a balance point that is further up despite the butts weighing the same thing.
 
soyale said:
yeah, thats why i pointed it out. the gentleman seems confused as to why the cue on the right has a balance point that is further up despite the butts weighing the same thing.
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I wasn’t confused about why the balance points were different. I wanted to know whether the difference affects play, and if so, how.
 
I built a test rig to experiment with different options:

Update on forward balanced cue questions...

Not long ago I ask about makers that gravitate to forward balanced cues because I was thinking of buying a 58" cue that was balanced around 21" from the butt cap that weighed 19 oz with no weight bolt. Well, I had a ( JP version ) pechauer Merry Widow sitting around that had pechauers 5/16 × 14...
forums.azbilliards.com
 
dquarasr said:
I wasn’t confused about why the balance points were different. I wanted to know whether the difference affects play, and if so, how.
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It changes the feel of the cue any time a balance point is changed. What ever feels best is best. There’s no description of “how”

How does pizza taste? Good, but hard to explain.

Best answer your gonna get around here-that my guess.

Best Fatboy 😃😃
 
To go a bit further on what fatboy said, The balance is going to be, very subjective. for example I might feel something in one of your cues, you can't. If all the weight is down in the last 4 inches, where a weight bolt would be. Unless its balanced out in the forearm or joint. I know That cue will feel butt heavy. Take that weight out and it will play very different.

The ones.. With best balance I've used has been in the handle area. Which I found is 18 inches from the joint collar. For me,With a 4 oz plus, shaft. But then my cue was a very heavy. Well over 21.5ozs. But it felt like 19ozs. And that is the important thing.
It's not about the weight, but where the weight is placed. I only every felt this with two cues. And the 2nd time,That was achieved by the cuemaker, putting weight directly behind the joint pin. Some guys call it forward balance.
That one cue, was done by trail and error. And about 3 cues later!!!!!
If you know what Kind of weight your looking for, it can be done. And that will alter the way a cue plays.
 
One last thing I’ll add to this.

I like it when my cue feels heaviest right when it makes contact with the CB

I don’t like a cue that gets light when it makes contact or feels heavier after the CB is released from the tip.

This is just a feel thing. And that’s the feel I’m going for on any cue at any price point. Don’t matter the maker, materials. Just the moment of contact with the CB with the heaviest part of the stroke going right through the CB at contact.

Best
Fatboy
 
Spot on:) only reason I know all that, is experience. And I was swinging the cue better through the CB. Like fatboy said!!
 
Well I’m one that’s sensitive to a cue’s balance point, so I’ll take a feeble stab.

I like a rearward balanced cue, meaning on 58-59” cues, if balancing on two fingers, the neutral point is around 17” from the buttcap. I think (but am not sure) that most cue makers & players would consider 16-17” as “rearward” balanced, 18” ish as “neutral”, and 19-21” = forward balanced. Supposedly rearward balance promotes more power & natural stroke, fwd balanced promotes more stability, especially for rail shots. Lots of threads about this over the years…

My personal conclusion is its all subjective, and no “right” answer. I like house cues & full splices and have long arms, grip the cue far back, and I think this is why I like rearward balanced cues. But when I play with a nice forward balanced cue, I like it also. I guess I’m a mess… 😂✌️
 
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