Bye, Bye, Ms. American Pool Pie!

[ceebee]

For the last several decades, pool in America as a sport has not gained any momentum. The reasons are plentiful and have been discussed right here on this forum on many occasions, with a variety of insights from around the world. Of course, this is exactly why AzBilliards is the premier pool-related website on the Internet, bar none!

Tours have come and gone here in the States. Some of them had such great potential, the Camel tour and the MPBA as two examples, and I hasten to say it, but today the IPT, which gave so many aspiring pros and existing pros a renewed sense of enthusiasm and hope, appears to be a sinking ship.

Check out the recent article on AzBilliards Main Page: http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.cfm?storynum=4127

Pool is growing in popularity today, and it is in the Philippines, in particular. The fever and excitement is continuing to rise in the Philippines, and rightfully so. I'm happy to see it happen, to see so many great pool events on the horizon, but I do sense that the pool climate here in the States as it pertains to professional pool is changing.

Any thoughts?

JAM

I see that Corey Duel & Gabe Owen are teaming up to begin an exhibition Tour, maybe they should be joined & follwed by a couple dozen other Professional Pool Players. Once the dates are established, another pair could show up 2 weeks after they leave, then 2 more could show up 2 weeks after that, & so on.

In a short while, maybe the "TOUR" would become 2 stops a week (two different locations, i.e. Dallas, Ft Worth). That would be 104 exhibitions a year. There are way more than 104 big cities & towns. This type of event could certainly assist a player in making a living. If the media would kick in & help publicize the events & report the fun had by all, the fun would be exacerbated by that alone.

If the admission fee is $20 (or more) & 100 fans show up, the door money is $2000, which equates to $1000 for each player. People spend a lot of money each week for movies & other entertainment. Transportation money food & lodging would be another issue.

If the two players would play a short "Match Game", then play a short "Scotch Doubles Match" with 2 selected amatuers, then perform some trick shots, people might like that. The players could sell DVD's, Shirts, Caps & other Pool stuff. The players get the door money & their sales, the proprietor gets the concessions.

If some interest can be garnered by some great Pool Rooms across the USA, the players can become known by many many fans, in a short period of time. The Pool Rooms would enjoy the extra income & the action generated by the Pros having been there.

Each Show could have an educational presentation, so the Pros could talk about "the Game", regional Pool Schools, local League Play & local high level players.

These are just quick ideas.... I'm here to help anyway I can.

 

[cuenut]

I think that one of the reasons there is not serious prize money in the game and why there is not a great following of spectators is because the average Joe does not think that they are too far off of the skill level of the average pro they see on TV. I can't tell you how many times I have heard guys talking about running 7-8 racks in a row, and they don't even know how to make a closed bridge, and say they had a really bad night when they were shooting on a 9 foot table and didn't even know it. There is a big difference in opinion when you get to the person who plays about once a week and really knows what it takes to run a rack or play a really nice safety.

I think it is like tennis in some ways. Everyone know a little about the game and most people understand that the pros are good, but they really don't understand how good. Serena Williams serving at 120+mph!! I don't even know if I could see the ball much less return it with any authority.

The other element is that most parents see pool as a seedy hobbie and actually discourage their kids from playing. I think if there were a way to market and incrementally increase the number of youth tournament events with scholarship money awarded, and follow that with a media blitz on TV, you would really start to see the numbers change over. Many kids love to shoot, but are not encouraged. This would equate to them continuing their appreciation for the game as they get older and the overall numbers would come around.

Expecting players in major tournaments to behave themselves as professionals would also be a must. Ranting and raving should get you kicked out of a tournament, period. I think the reason most of the other countries that regard pool are the way they are is because their players are considered gentlemen, not hustlers. That is a big thing in my eyes.

 

[JAM]

American Pie

I highlighted what I thought were some of the BEST insights on this thread.

I was wondering if there would be a common theme. I value the opinions from the AzBilliards community which truly does represent the American pool culture.

Looking at the video link of the 2006 WPC awards presentation in the Philippines between Ronnie Alcano and Ralf Souquet, I just can't see that ever happening here in the States.

The below-referenced opinion highlighted in red just might have it right. I sure can't think of what will boost pool here in the U.S., but some of the posts do offer some good directions to go.

CrownCityCorey: “…Basically I think how well or poorly the sport appears to be doing depends on one's perspective and position within the pool ranks….”

Da Poet: “I think it's time for a new approach to professional pool in the US….I'm beginning to think that television coverage needs to be the second priority. The first priority should be holding events in front of crowds of live and enthusiastic spectators...the game needs to be taken to the audience rather than waiting for the audience to be taken to the game.

Roadie: “And no JAM, a sport is not defined by the existence of professional players…You want to lament the state of pool then start with the BCA…Then go with the WPA. If any oraganizations should have been working with media to make pool a popular sport then it should have been these two…When the WORLD POOL ASSOCIATION can't have a comprehensive website then there is little chance that pool will get much farther than it is, in America or worldwide.”

Gerry: ...TCOM started the last BIG BOOM in pool...We need to study why it boomed from the movie...."

SJM: “…Measuring the health of pool by considering pro pool alone doesn’t really make sense. In the eyes of most, pool is a game played in a bar on a small table…I’ve always seen BCA week as the single biggest opportunity for American pro players to bond with the American amateurs, but, in my opinion, and based on having attended the last eleven BCA weeks, the opportunity is squandered by far too many of the pros…I reckon that making pool really matter in America means, among other things, having the pros sell themselves to the countless amateurs and juniors who play the game, bonding with them when possible, presenting themselves well in the pool halls of America, and by conducting themselves with dignity.”

Island Drive: “…it's actually the beginning. 07 will have allot to offer, wait and see you'll feel it coming.”.

Hittman: “We, in America, must accept responsibility for the position we occupy…Until we can project to the public that pool is a legitimate character builder for our youth..Until we accept that practice, coaching and mentorship is the easy part of becoming a pool professional while living as an example is the difficult goal to which we aspire, we are left fooling ourselves....”.

JRHendy: “…It is magic when you play, not when you watch. ….”.

I_Need_D-8: “…Historically speaking, the top level pool players in America have been shooting themselves in the foot for years now. Time to get off the high horse, stop the whining, and put in some real work….”.

Gerry: “Why not introduce them to the game and let them decide on their own if they love it or not…”.

JimS: “…My attitude probably explains why kids aren't growing up wanting to be pool pros. There ain't no future in it. Now if we're talkin golf.......

1Pocket: “…IMO the action side of pool is a huge part of its popularity…Look at Poker -- what, did they first have to eliminate all of the cheating, sandbagging, dumping and 'business' from poker in order for it to be "clean" enough to become successful?”.

Cheesemouse: “A thought that always floats around in the back of my mind when I think of the pool problem is: "where is the industry?...There is not an agency of a like kind in the pool industry.....

Mr. Lucky: “…Pool is not marketed in America properly…and yes the APA / BCA / whoever else inability to work together for a common cause in promoting pool also to a point has hurt its profliferation here…”.

NIttiFan: “I believe billiard industry leaders, Diamond, Olhausen, Brunswick, etc.. should join up with the Billiard Education Foundation and structure a program to put tables and equipment in high schools across the nation…Get local talent to instruct the kids a few days a week and start filling the pews…”.

DawgAndy: “…there's just isn't any connecion between the ameture sector and the pro. No tour card (no tour) no qualifying for a pro tournament, nothing to strive for except a trip to Vegas at the end of the year…Plus without a pro tour the pros gobble up the top 3 places at many of these weekend deals.....

Whitewolf: “…if billiards could be put in the same format as horse racing, where gigantic bets can take place on the outcome of pool events….”.

Ceebee: “…Corey Duel & Gabe Owen are teaming up to begin an exhibition Tour, maybe they should be joined & follwed by a couple dozen other Professional Pool Players…In a short while, maybe the "TOUR" would become 2 stops a week...Each Show could have an educational presentation, so the Pros could talk about "the Game", regional Pool Schools, local League Play & local high level players..

Cuenut: “…Expecting players in major tournaments to behave themselves as professionals would also be a must....the other countries that regard pool are the way they are is because their players are considered gentlemen, not hustlers.”.

How to convey that magic is the key.

JAM

 

[chefjeff]

(snip)
How to convey that magic is the key.

JAM

Bingo! Marketing is ALWAYS the key to increasing value.

Hittman's fine post, to me, was more about the marketing end of pool than about the individual's goodness or whatever. When one integrates marketing as fully as possible into something, "magic" happens.

I'd suggest to those who really want to help pool, to take marketing classes to understand the processes of getting the public to open their wallets and buy some entertainment in the form of pool.

Hard work, honesty, integrity all have a place in the success of anything. With such diversity of thought and action throughout the pool world, this game is going to thrive, imho.

Jeff Livingston

 

[Drew]

I believe billiard industry leaders, Diamond, Olhausen, Brunswick, etc.. should join up with the Billiard Education Foundation and structure a program to put tables and equipment in high schools across the nation and tweak the interest of kids in school. This will perpetuate the sport and will foster some of the traits you've proffered in this post.

Get local talent to instruct the kids a few days a week and start filling the pews, so to speak.

Carnegie did it with libraries!?

JMO, Mike

I've been seriously thinking about this for awhile now. Our schools have premier swimming pools, photo labs, gyms, labs, rec. equipment. Why not just throw a pool table in the commons? Guaranteed it will get a lot of use. I don't know how it is in other places but around here, if you want to play pool at age 13, forget it. Save your allowance and buy a table. Turn pool into a high school sport and watch the kids flock to the pool halls. Baseball, basketball, football, these sports die out after your high school years. You're reduced to a spectator after school. But pool is something that you will continue to play for your entire life. Kids don't play for money. Kids don't hustle, cheat, or dump. They play for pride. They play because they love the game. The hustling, cheating, and dumping comes when these kids grow up and realize it's the only way to pay for a decent meal.

Reading through this thread I can't help but shed a tear. There are so many people on here who genuinely want to support the game we love so much. But I'm surprised nobody has mentioned our little pool community on azb to take some responsibility. We're 7200 members strong. I don't know about you but I've seen less people do more damage. I mean, everybody has expressed their opinions so vividly, why not brainstorm some ideas and start putting them to use? From what I've seen so far on this forum, this is a great collection of highly intelligent and capable people. I've heard several ideas already that would definitely help in creating a serious professional tour. Particularly something cheesemouse said "Hell, even the pig producers of American have an association that promotes the other white meat. Nearly every hog grower in the country pays a buck per hundred weight when they sell the pigs. The money goes to promote pork. The theory is that everyone will benefit in the long run." What a brilliant idea. Anyone with any interest whatsoever in the sport will not think twice about a donation. APA, BCA, TAP, VNEA, whatever other "drinking" team members there are pay at least $7+table time a week to play 5 or 6 games on a bar box??? Nobody will ***** if they raise the price to 8. Now you have an extra dollar from every member every week. That's a lot of start up cash. Can 7000+ members of azb show up on the BCA's front door and make this happen? HELL YEAH!!! This doesn't even tap into the resources we have to contribute to the pro ranks. Every product company in the world will become a member of a central governing body and contribute just a little to help maintain a pro-tour. The pro-tour will, in return, promote to our kids. All of sudden pool builds a strong base and it skyrockets from there.

This isn't just another random thought or opinion. I'm not just talking because I like to. This is a challenge. I have already dedicated my life to billiards. I dare any of you to join me. Some of you may think that it will never happen. Some may think "One person can't make a difference." Well I'm sorry, I don't buy that.

BTW: I've been thinking about putting pool tables in schools for years now. The thought was in my mind before I had ever held a cue. I loved the idea so much that I've already started a fund to donate a table to my old high school. The possibilities are limitless.

 

[RottenRodney]

I'm selling my house and moving to Manila, because I can't stand to live in a country that does not have the best pool players in the world. BTW how old are you?

 

[unknownpro]

Reading through this thread I can't help but shed a tear. There are so many people on here who genuinely want to support the game we love so much. But I'm surprised nobody has mentioned our little pool community on azb to take some responsibility. We're 7200 members strong. I don't know about you but I've seen less people do more damage. I mean, everybody has expressed their opinions so vividly, why not brainstorm some ideas and start putting them to use? From what I've seen so far on this forum, this is a great collection of highly intelligent and capable people. I've heard several ideas already that would definitely help in creating a serious professional tour. Particularly something cheesemouse said "Hell, even the pig producers of American have an association that promotes the other white meat. Nearly every hog grower in the country pays a buck per hundred weight when they sell the pigs. The money goes to promote pork. The theory is that everyone will benefit in the long run." What a brilliant idea. Anyone with any interest whatsoever in the sport will not think twice about a donation. APA, BCA, TAP, VNEA, whatever other "drinking" team members there are pay at least $7+table time a week to play 5 or 6 games on a bar box??? Nobody will ***** if they raise the price to 8. Now you have an extra dollar from every member every week. That's a lot of start up cash. Can 7000+ members of azb show up on the BCA's front door and make this happen? HELL YEAH!!! This doesn't even tap into the resources we have to contribute to the pro ranks. Every product company in the world will become a member of a central governing body and contribute just a little to help maintain a pro-tour. The pro-tour will, in return, promote to our kids. All of sudden pool builds a strong base and it skyrockets from there.

Following the example of the National Pork Board will require an extensive congressional lobbying effort because the Pork board is actually not an industry organization but a bureacratic one created by unconstitutional congressional legislation and enforced at gunpoint.

IMO the first obstacle to BCA support of a pro tour is the competition of the members inside the BCA itself. Players cannot expect the BCA to support their players organization and then select an official table, official cloth, official balls, etc, which leaves out all the other paying members of the BCA who are supporting them.

So I would suggest that forming a pro organization that is limited in the types of deals it can make to ensure broad overall support from the entire industry is necessary. This organization should also be limited in the way it deals with the player members, as it should not be in the business of policing players, and should be open to everyone - the more the better. Let the tournament directors run the tournaments and decide who to throw out.

I agree that AZB is the place for this to happen. But to ensure success, I think we should focus as much on what shouldn't happen as what should. We have plenty of examples of what shouldn't happen.

unknownpro


This is some of the federal code concerning the Pork Board:

(a) Collection and remission to Board; persons required to pay
(1) The order shall provide that, not later than 30 days after the effective date of the order under section 4805 (c) of this title an assessment shall be paid, in the manner prescribed in the order. Upon the appointment of the Board, the assessments held in escrow shall be distributed to the Board. Except as provided in paragraph (3), assessments shall be payable by—
(A) each producer for each porcine animal described in subparagraph (A) or (C) of section 4802 (8) of this title produced in the United States that is sold or slaughtered for sale;
(B) each producer for each porcine animal described in subsection [1] 4802(8)(B) of this title that is sold; and
(C) each importer for each porcine animal, pork, or pork product that is imported into the United States.
(2) Such assessment shall be collected and remitted to the Board once it is appointed pursuant to section 4808 of this title, but, until that time, to the Secretary, who shall promptly proceed to distribute the funds received by him in accordance with the provisions of subsection (c) of this section, except that the Secretary shall retain the funds to be received by the Board until such time as the Board is appointed pursuant to section 4808 of this title, by—
(A) in the case of subparagraph (A) of paragraph (1), the purchaser of the porcine animal referred to in such subparagraph;
(B) in the case of subparagraph (B) of paragraph (1), the producer of the porcine animal referred to in such subparagraph; and
(C) in the case of subparagraph (C) of paragraph (1), the importer referred to in such subparagraph.
(3) A person is not required to pay an assessment for a porcine animal, pork, or pork product under paragraph (1) if such person proves to the Board that an assessment was paid previously under such paragraph by a person for such porcine animal (of the same category described in subparagraph (A), (B), or (C) of section 4802 (8) of this title), pork, or pork product.
(b) Rate of assessment; increase; waiver of collection of assessment
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), the rate of assessment prescribed by the initial order shall be the lesser of—
(A) 0.25 percent of the market value of the porcine animal, pork, or pork product sold or imported; or
(B) an amount established by the Secretary based on a recommendation of the Delegate Body.
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (3), the rate of assessment in the initial order may be increased by not more than 0.1 percent per year on recommendation of the Delegate Body.
(3) The rate of assessment may not exceed 0.50 percent of such market value unless—
(A) after the initial referendum required under section 4811 (a) of this title, the Delegate Body recommends an increase in such rate above 0.50 percent; and
(B) such increase is approved in a referendum conducted under section 4811 (b) of this title.
(4)
(A) Pork or pork products imported into the United States shall be assessed based on the equivalent value of the live porcine animal from which such pork or pork products were produced, as determined by the Secretary.
(B) The Secretary may waive the collection of assessments on a type of such imported pork or pork products if the Secretary determines that such collection is not practicable.
(c) Distribution and use
Funds collected by the Board from assessments collected under this section shall be distributed and used in the following manner:
(1)
(A) Each State association, shall receive an amount of funds equal to the product obtained by multiplying—
(i) the aggregate amount of assessments attributable to porcine animals produced in such State by persons described in subsection (a)(1)(A) and (B) of this section minus that State’s share of refunds determined pursuant to paragraph (4) by such persons pursuant to section 4813 of this title; and
(ii) a percentage applicable to such State association determined by the Delegate Body, but in no event less than sixteen and one-half percent, or
(B) in the case of a State association that was conducting a pork promotion program in the period from July 1, 1984, to June 30, 1985, if greater than (A) an amount of funds equal to the amount of funds that would have been collected in such State pursuant to the pork promotion program in existence in such State from July 1, 1984, to June 30, 1985, had the porcine animals, subject to assessment and to which no refund was received in such State in each year following December 23, 1985, been produced from July 1, 1984, to June 30, 1985, and been subject to the rates of assessments then in effect and the rate of return then in effect from each State to the Council described in paragraph (2)(A), and other national entities involved in pork promotion, research and consumer information.
(C) A State association shall use such funds and any proceeds from the investment of such funds for financing—
(i) promotion, research, and consumer information plans and projects, and
(ii) administrative expenses incurred in connection with such plans and projects.
(2)
(A) The National Pork Producers Council, a nonprofit corporation of the type described in section 501 (c)(3) of title 26 and incorporated in the State of Iowa, shall receive an amount of funds equal to—
(i) 371/2 percent of the aggregate amount of assessments collected under this section throughout the United States from the date assessment commences pursuant to subsection (a)(1) of this section until the first day of the month following the month in which the Board is appointed pursuant to section 4808 of this title.[2]
(ii) 35 percent thereafter until the referendum is conducted pursuant to section 4811 of this title,
(iii) 25 percent until twelve months after the referendum is conducted, and
(iv) no funds thereafter except in so far as it obtains such funds from the Board pursuant to sections [3] 4808 or 4809 of this title, each of which amounts determined under (i), (ii), and (iii) shall be less the Council’s share of refunds determined pursuant to paragraph (4).
(B) The Council shall use such funds and proceeds from the investment of such funds for financing—
(i) promotion, research, and consumer information plans and projects, and
(ii) administrative expenses of the Council.
(3)
(A) The Board shall receive the amount of funds that remain after the distribution required under paragraphs (1) and (2).
(B) The Board shall use such funds and any proceeds from the investment of such funds pursuant to subsection (g) of this section for—
(i) financing promotion, research, and consumer information plans and projects in accordance with this chapter; [4]
(ii) such expenses for the administration, maintenance, and functioning of the Board as may be authorized by the Secretary;
(iii) accumulation of a reasonable reserve to permit an effective promotion, research, and consumer information program to continue in years when the amount of assessments may be reduced; and
(iv) administrative costs incurred by the Secretary to carry out this chapter,[4] including any expenses incurred for the conduct of a referendum under this chapter.[4]
(4)
(A) Each State’s share of refunds shall be determined by multiplying the aggregate amount of refunds received by producers in such State by the percentage applicable to such State pursuant to paragraph (1)(A)(ii).
(B) The National Pork Producers Council’s share of refunds shall be determined by multiplying its applicable percent of the aggregate amount of assessments by the product of—
(i) subtracting from the aggregate amount of refunds received by all producers the aggregate amount of State share or refunds in every State determined pursuant to subparagraph (A), and
(ii) adding to that sum the aggregate amount of refunds received by importers.
(d) Prohibited promotions
No promotion funded with assessments collected under this chapter may make—
(1) a false or misleading claim on behalf of pork or a pork product; or
(2) a false or misleading statement with respect to an attribute or use of a competing product.
(e) Influencing legislation prohibited
No funds collected through assessments authorized by this section may, in any manner, be used for the purpose of influencing legislation, as defined in section 4911 (d) and (e)(2) of title 26.
(f) Maintenance of books and records; audits
The Board shall—
(1) maintain such books and records, and prepare and submit to the Secretary such reports from time to time, as may be required by the Secretary for appropriate accounting of the receipt and disbursement of funds entrusted to the Board or a State association, as the case may be; and
(2) cause a complete audit report to be submitted to the Secretary at the end of each fiscal year.
(g) Investment by Board of funds collected
The Board, with the approval of the Secretary, may invest funds collected through assessments authorized under this section, pending disbursement for a plan or project, only in—
(1) an obligation of the United States, or of a State or political subdivision thereof;
(2) an interest-bearing account or certificate of deposit of a bank that is a member of the Federal Reserve System; or
(3) an obligation fully guaranteed as to principal and interest by the United States.

 

[gwvavases]

JAM,

There are lots of good ideas posted on AZB about how to promote pool in America. I admire you and Keith very much, and I was a happy recipient of one of Keith's autographed photos, which he mailed to me a few years ago when I lived in California after I sent him a PM on AZB asking for one. I really appreciated that. (I now live back in the DC area, where I have lived off and on for the past 27 years.)

Here's an idea to promote pool that I haven't heard proposed before (sorry that it's so long):

Someone mentioned that there are about 7,000 AZB members, and maybe that's a big enough force to do something worthwhile to promote the sport. The idea I've been thinking of is to take the model that has been used so much over the last several years and apply it to pool.

We all know that the biggest obstacle to getting people interested in pool is that it just doesn't have TV entertainment value. The average citizen just doesn't understand and appreciate the amount of talent and hard work that it takes to be a great player. To them, TV pool is boring because everything looks so easy. For enough interest (meaning: money) to be generated to fund a pro tour, pool MUST have entertainment value to the general public.

Since the very first episode of "Survivor" appeared several years ago, people have been interested in that "reality show" format (i.e. getting voted off the island). It has been replicated in shows like American Idol, Big Brother, The Contender, Top Chef, and others that I just can't think of at the moment. The key to the success of all of these shows is the focus given to the individual participants, getting the audience to identify and like them (or DISlike them!). Some of their lives have been colorful and interesting to Joe (and Josephine) Public, some not so interesting, and others have just been real a-holes that people want to see annihilated. They key, I think, was to show that they were real people. I think each of the major networks has taken this paradigm and run with it at one time or another. Since this is a sport in which more Americans participate (at least once per year) than any other sport (something like 30 million a year, I think I read someplace), I think people DO have an interest in it. They just don't "get it", like we die-hard fans do.

Anyway...the idea is this: Have a well-recognized player (Keith comes to mind), or a team of well-recognized players, approach the networks, including ESPN (with whom I think it has the biggest chance of success), GSN, Versus, etc., with the proposal of gathering enough people (18 seems like a good number) to live in a house, hotel, or wherever for a couple of months. Throw in color thrown in about their lives and their interest in pool, including lots of stories about the old-time greats (Greenlief, Hoppe, Mosconi, Minnesota Fats (ok, he was a hustler, but the most well-known player in American history), and have them have weekly matches, with the loser eliminated each week. Today's pros (Strickland, Fisher, Corr, Duel, MCCREADY, Reyes, and others) could make guest appearances offering instruction or moral support to the participants. The ultimate goal is to introduce these pros to the American public and increase the overall interest in the game to make it marketable enough to the network to draw industry (and related) sponsors who would ultimately fund a pro tour with respectable prize pools. There are SO MANY interesting and colorful people enjoying the sport from all walks of life -- who also participate on AZB -- they would create an interesting bunch with whom many occasional pool players could identify. The paradigm is already there. Why not use it?

AZB members provide the pool of potential talent. NO professionals to be included among the participants. Just Average Joes (and Josephines) who have some talent at the game competing for a prize of, say, $100,000 or more. Where does the prize pool come from? In part from AZB participants who are truly interested in promoting pool in America, plus the big industry players (Diamond, Brunswick, Meucci, Viking, etc.). I actually think that Trudeau had something like this in mind (i.e. he wanted to acquire enough footage of the world's best pool players to create a type of reality show to sell to a network) with the IPT. I say that based on the trailer he produced when he was trying to sell it. Good idea. But the biggest problem with it, in my opinion, was that he wanted to attract the best in the world, and to do that, he had to promise prize pools that were just too outrageous, and he couldn't pull it off because the interest by the American public just wasn't there yet.

If enough AZBers were willing to donate their own $$ to a venture like this, AND be willing to be among the "houseguests", "hustlers", "pool room bums", "athletes", or whatever they ended up being called, perhaps the industry would be willing to sweeten the pot enough to motivate a network to produce it. By that I mean that if some of the production costs (including the prize pool) were covered by donations from individuals and contributions from industry, a network might see the potential and be willing to spring for the remaining costs.

If enough AZBers raised their hands indicating a willingness to donate money and participate in the venture (the reality show), I think it has a chance of succeeding. We have the forum right here in place. I bet we could easily field of a couple of hundred people who would be willing to audition for the show. The key would be to have a spokesman with enough clout with the industry and the networks to get the idea seriously considered. You and Keith would make good a good team, and I bet you know enough people in high places to bring them in (Allen Hopkins, Mitch and Eva Laurence, Allison Fisher) to help the cause.

I truly believe that if a reality show of this type were aired, the public would love it. Have young guns and old-timers, lawyers and truck drivers, men and women...the whole mix.

I'd be very interested to see what the other AZBers think of this idea. How many would want to be involved?

George in Alexandria

 

[Drew]

I'm selling my house and moving to Manila, because I can't stand to live in a country that does not have the best pool players in the world. BTW how old are you?

I'll be 20 on the 22nd.

Following the example of the National Pork Board will require an extensive congressional lobbying effort because the Pork board is actually not an industry organization but a bureacratic one created by unconstitutional congressional legislation and enforced at gunpoint.

IMO the first obstacle to BCA support of a pro tour is the competition of the members inside the BCA itself. Players cannot expect the BCA to support their players organization and then select an official table, official cloth, official balls, etc, which leaves out all the other paying members of the BCA who are supporting them.

So I would suggest that forming a pro organization that is limited in the types of deals it can make to ensure broad overall support from the entire industry is necessary. This organization should also be limited in the way it deals with the player members, as it should not be in the business of policing players, and should be open to everyone - the more the better. Let the tournament directors run the tournaments and decide who to throw out.

I agree that AZB is the place for this to happen. But to ensure success, I think we should focus as much on what shouldn't happen as what should. We have plenty of examples of what shouldn't happen.

unknownpro


This is some of the federal code concerning the Pork Board:

I didn't read all the code, but it looks like it's a mandatory thing for anyone in the pork industry. A similar, required board for the pool industry isn't very feasible. But I don't think it would have to be required. Companies like Diamond and Brunswick would have no problem contributing some money to help promote pool. It's basically cheap advertising for them. I believe the most money will come from the players. With millions of pool players across the country. A couple bucks from half of them will go a long way. Hall owners, cue makers, and anyone else who makes money selling pool. One dollar twice a year from all the league players comes to a couple million dollars a year to be used exclusively on promotion. These guys already pay their annual league dues. I'm only asking for 2 bucks. And 1% of every company's net income to contribute to a nationwide pro tour. In return these companies get all the benefits of belonging to a single governing body of US pool. Advertising through such a strong committee is worth the cost. All this money plus product booth sales at the events and the players entry fees, not a bad purse. It'll be enough to attract the big names in the game.

Just brainstorming.

 

[Drew]

JAM,

There are lots of good ideas posted on AZB about how to promote pool in America. I admire you and Keith very much, and I was a happy recipient of one of the autographed photos, which he mailed to me a few years ago when I lived in California after I sent him a PM on these boards asking for one. I really appreciated that. (I now live back in the DC area, where I have lived off and on for the past 27 years.)

Here's an idea to promote pool that I haven't heard proposed before (sorry that it's so long):

Someone mentioned that there are about 7,000 AZB members, and maybe that's a big enough force to do something worthwhile to promote the sport. The idea I've been thinking of is to take the model that has been used so much over the last several years and apply it to pool.

We all know that the biggest obstacle to getting people interested in pool is that it just doesn't have TV entertainment value. The average citizen just doesn't understand and appreciate the amount of talent and hard work that it takes to be a great player. To them, TV pool is boring because everything looks so easy. For enough interest (meaning: money) to be generated to fund a pro tour, pool MUST have entertainment value to the general public.

Since the very first episode of "Survivor" appeared several years ago, people have been interested in that format (i.e. getting voted off the island). It has been replicated in shows like American Idol, Big Brother, The Contender, Top Chef, and others that I just can't think of at the moment. The key to the success of all of these shows is the focus given to the individual participants, getting the audience to identify and like them (or DISlike them!). Some of their lives have been colorful and interesting to Joe (and Josephine) Public, some not so interesting, and others have just been real a-holes that people want to see annihilated. They key, I think, was to show that they were real people. I think each of the major networks have taken this paradigm and run with it at one time or another. Since this is a sport in which more Americans participate (at least once per year) than any other sport (something like 30 million a year, I think I read someplace), I think people DO have an interest in it. They just don't "get it", like we die-hard fans do.

Anyway...the idea is this: Have a well-recognized player (Keith comes to mind), or a team of well-recognized players, approach the networks, including ESPN (with whom I think it has the biggest chance of success), GSN, Versus, etc., with the proposal of gathering enough people (18 seems like a good number) to live in a house, hotel, or wherever, with enough color thrown in about their lives and their interest in pool, including lots of stories about the old-time greats (Greenlief, Hoppe, Mosconi, Minnesota Fats (ok, he was a hustler, but the most well-known player in American history), and have them have weekly matches, with the loser eliminated each week. Today's pros (Strickland, Fisher, Corr, Duel, MCCREADY, Reyes, and others) could make guest appearances offering instruction or moral support to the participants; which, hopefully, would have the ultimate effect of introducing the American public to them and increasing the overall interest in the game to make it marketable enough to the network to draw industry (and related) sponsors who would ultimately fund a pro tour with respectable prize pools. There are SO MANY interesting and colorful people enjoying the sport from all walks of life -- who also participate on AZB -- they would create an interesting bunch with whom many occasional pool players could identify. The paradigm is already there. Why not use it?

AZB members provide the pool of potential talent. NO professionals to be included among the participants. Just Average Joes (and Josephines) who have some talent at the game competing for a prize of, say, $100,000 or more. Where does the prize pool come from? In part from AZB participants who are truly interested in promoting pool in America, plus the big industry players (Diamond, Brunswick, Meucci, Viking, etc.). I actually think that Trudeau had something like this in mind (i.e. he wanted to acquire enough footage of the world's best pool players to create a type of reality show to sell to a network) with the IPT. I say that based on the trailer he produced when he was trying to sell it. Good idea. But the biggest problem with it, in my opinion, was that he wanted to attract the best in the world, and to do that, he had to promise prize pools that were just too outrageous, and he couldn't pull it off because the interest by the American public just wasn't there yet.

If enough AZBers were willing to donate their own $$ to a venture like this, AND be willing to be among the "houseguests", "hustlers", "pool room bums", "athletes", or whatever they ended up being called, perhaps the industry would be willing to sweeten the pot enough to motivate a network to produce it. By that I mean that if some of the production costs (including the prize pool) were covered by donations from individuals and contributions from industry, a network might see the potential and be willing to spring for the remaining costs.

If enough AZBers raised their hands indicating a willingness to donate money and participate in the venture (the reality show), I think it has a chance of succeeding. We have the forum right here in place. I bet we could easily field of a couple of hundred people who would be willing to audition for the show. The key would be to have a spokesman with enough clout with the industry and the networks to get the idea seriously considered. You and Keith would make good a good team, and I bet you know enough people in high places to bring them in (Allen Hopkins, Mitch and Eva Laurence, Allison Fisher) to help the cause.

I truly believe that if a reality show of this type were aired, the public would love it. Have young guns and old-timers, lawyers and truck drivers, men and women...the whole mix.

I'd be very interested to see what the other AZBers think of this idea. How many would want to be involved?

George in Alexandria

Awesome idea!!! Definitely something within reach. A reality show would fill the pool rooms. Count me in.

 

[supergreenman]

Very well stated, Corey! I think you are right on!

In order for pool to be a sport in America, doesn't there have to be an existing lot of so-called "professional players"?

I'm going through a YouTube frenzy, so I might as well throw this one in. It illustrates how I am feeling today, Thursday, February 8, 2007: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-_G0eBWKLI&mode=related&search=

JAM

Thank you Jam for posting that link to the Johnny Cash video. I truly enjoyed it.

Like you I think that the game would be inriched by a viable pro tour here in North America. A prime example of this in other sports is the kid playing league hockey, football or baseball. Approach any kid in one of these sports and you will be able to find out who thier favorite pro is, why and what they've learned from them.

To know the potential of anything you have to be able to see it in it's best form.

While pool might be my favorite past time, I also spend time building a model railway. When you tell most people this, they picture a round track with a lonely train going round and round. They have no idea of what could be possible.

A first look at the attached picture a viewer might think it's an old photograph of a real scene.

Pool needs this kind of hook, I think one of the best things for pool on tv to come along in the last years is the measle ball. If properly explained by the sportscaster, it would shed some light into the complexity of the game as opposed to people just watching the pros shoot what looks like one easy shot after another.

 

[JAM]

Thank you Jam for posting that link to the Johnny Cash video. I truly enjoyed it....

Johnny Cash's message in that song is exactly how I feel about pool today.

On a positive note, I am impressed with the recent additions to the thread today. WOW. These are some GREAT ideas and suggestions, and you know what, they just might be doable if folks are willing to try. I know I sure am! Keep 'em coming. Thanks to all who responded! AzBilliards truly is the best pool community on the net!

JAM

 

[gopi-1]

I'm selling my house and moving to Manila, because I can't stand to live in a country that does not have the best pool players in the world. BTW how old are you?

Once you settled there, don't let them know that you
just sold your house, or you will be holding an empty nestegg!

 

[supergreenman]

take a page from another past time......

After kicking this thread around in my head over the weekend I thought that would find out what people with other pastimes that were in the decline were doing to raise awareness and bring people in to participate so I wrote this letter to the folks at Model Railroader, I guess they're the model train equivelent of Billiards Digest.

Have a read, follow the links. SGM

Hi James,
The World's Greatest Hobby campaign was kicked off just over 5 years ago asan attempt by the model railroad industry to raise awareness and hopefullybring new people to the hobby. The primary target groups were families withchildren and people retiring who had free time and disposable income. I haveno hard facts as to how the campaign went, and I think the end results arepretty mixed. Overall, the campaign has run its course with questionableimpact. For more information on how it worked, visit the www.greatesthobby.com . Website. That should give you some idea as to the scope of the program, abit about the ambassador facet used to promote the World's Greatest Hobby.Over the years we've offered a variety of information booklets, DVDs, andstories in our various publications. We also held monthly drawings for modelrailroad prizes in the first several years. Currently, interest in model trains is still very strong, and manufacturersare continuing to produce some of the finest models the industry has everseen. However, the model railroad hobby population is directly linked to thebaby boomer generation, and so as that ages, the hobby's population isslowly shrinking. While there will be a model railroad industry for mayyears to come yet, it is currently in a state of slow decline. Best wishes on attempting your own promotions with billiards. I've alwaysenjoyed the sport and own a pool table myself.

Sincerely,
David Popp
Senior editor
Model Railroader
magazinedpopp@mrmag.com --

From: <jamesr_1968@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:13:14 -0600
To: <news@mrmag.com

Conversation: MR News - News about the Hobby
Subject: MR News - News about the Hobby

James Routledge took the time to send us this:

Subject:MR News - News about the Hobby

Email: jamesr_1968@hotmail.com
Description/Question: Hi, I have been buying your magazine for over 9 years now. I remember about a year or so ago you (and the industry) were running a campaign to raise awarness about modelrailroading.

Have you done any studies to see if there has been an impact?

The reason I ask is I am also very active in billiards. Like Model Railroading, there is a percieved slowdown in the sport. Part of it is an image problem, especially in North America. Pool is very big in asia and doesn't suffer the stigma (or percieved stigma) that it does here.

Since the campaign, I would like to know what strategies you feel have worked in promoting the hobby, what didn't, and lessons you have learned. Perhaps some of these strategies can be successfully applied to the billiards model.

Lastly, I would like to know how you feel the state of model railroading is compared to a few years ago before the campaign.

Trains rule, video games make you drool

James

 

[crosseyedjoe]

JAM,

There are lots of good ideas posted on AZB about how to promote pool in America. I admire you and Keith very much, and I was a happy recipient of one of Keith's autographed photos, which he mailed to me a few years ago when I lived in California after I sent him a PM on AZB asking for one. I really appreciated that. (I now live back in the DC area, where I have lived off and on for the past 27 years.)

Here's an idea to promote pool that I haven't heard proposed before (sorry that it's so long):

Someone mentioned that there are about 7,000 AZB members, and maybe that's a big enough force to do something worthwhile to promote the sport. The idea I've been thinking of is to take the model that has been used so much over the last several years and apply it to pool.

We all know that the biggest obstacle to getting people interested in pool is that it just doesn't have TV entertainment value. The average citizen just doesn't understand and appreciate the amount of talent and hard work that it takes to be a great player. To them, TV pool is boring because everything looks so easy. For enough interest (meaning: money) to be generated to fund a pro tour, pool MUST have entertainment value to the general public.

Since the very first episode of "Survivor" appeared several years ago, people have been interested in that "reality show" format (i.e. getting voted off the island). It has been replicated in shows like American Idol, Big Brother, The Contender, Top Chef, and others that I just can't think of at the moment. The key to the success of all of these shows is the focus given to the individual participants, getting the audience to identify and like them (or DISlike them!). Some of their lives have been colorful and interesting to Joe (and Josephine) Public, some not so interesting, and others have just been real a-holes that people want to see annihilated. They key, I think, was to show that they were real people. I think each of the major networks has taken this paradigm and run with it at one time or another. Since this is a sport in which more Americans participate (at least once per year) than any other sport (something like 30 million a year, I think I read someplace), I think people DO have an interest in it. They just don't "get it", like we die-hard fans do.

Anyway...the idea is this: Have a well-recognized player (Keith comes to mind), or a team of well-recognized players, approach the networks, including ESPN (with whom I think it has the biggest chance of success), GSN, Versus, etc., with the proposal of gathering enough people (18 seems like a good number) to live in a house, hotel, or wherever for a couple of months. Throw in color thrown in about their lives and their interest in pool, including lots of stories about the old-time greats (Greenlief, Hoppe, Mosconi, Minnesota Fats (ok, he was a hustler, but the most well-known player in American history), and have them have weekly matches, with the loser eliminated each week. Today's pros (Strickland, Fisher, Corr, Duel, MCCREADY, Reyes, and others) could make guest appearances offering instruction or moral support to the participants. The ultimate goal is to introduce these pros to the American public and increase the overall interest in the game to make it marketable enough to the network to draw industry (and related) sponsors who would ultimately fund a pro tour with respectable prize pools. There are SO MANY interesting and colorful people enjoying the sport from all walks of life -- who also participate on AZB -- they would create an interesting bunch with whom many occasional pool players could identify. The paradigm is already there. Why not use it?

AZB members provide the pool of potential talent. NO professionals to be included among the participants. Just Average Joes (and Josephines) who have some talent at the game competing for a prize of, say, $100,000 or more. Where does the prize pool come from? In part from AZB participants who are truly interested in promoting pool in America, plus the big industry players (Diamond, Brunswick, Meucci, Viking, etc.). I actually think that Trudeau had something like this in mind (i.e. he wanted to acquire enough footage of the world's best pool players to create a type of reality show to sell to a network) with the IPT. I say that based on the trailer he produced when he was trying to sell it. Good idea. But the biggest problem with it, in my opinion, was that he wanted to attract the best in the world, and to do that, he had to promise prize pools that were just too outrageous, and he couldn't pull it off because the interest by the American public just wasn't there yet.

If enough AZBers were willing to donate their own $$ to a venture like this, AND be willing to be among the "houseguests", "hustlers", "pool room bums", "athletes", or whatever they ended up being called, perhaps the industry would be willing to sweeten the pot enough to motivate a network to produce it. By that I mean that if some of the production costs (including the prize pool) were covered by donations from individuals and contributions from industry, a network might see the potential and be willing to spring for the remaining costs.

If enough AZBers raised their hands indicating a willingness to donate money and participate in the venture (the reality show), I think it has a chance of succeeding. We have the forum right here in place. I bet we could easily field of a couple of hundred people who would be willing to audition for the show. The key would be to have a spokesman with enough clout with the industry and the networks to get the idea seriously considered. You and Keith would make good a good team, and I bet you know enough people in high places to bring them in (Allen Hopkins, Mitch and Eva Laurence, Allison Fisher) to help the cause.

I truly believe that if a reality show of this type were aired, the public would love it. Have young guns and old-timers, lawyers and truck drivers, men and women...the whole mix.

I'd be very interested to see what the other AZBers think of this idea. How many would want to be involved?

George in Alexandria

Why not create a pilot episode of following the trials and tribulations of a serious road player. You can title it something like "The Quest for Glory" or "Finding Buddy Hall," basically documenting one player's journey from obscurity to his/her first big professional tournament.

When I say serious road player, someone who is willing to sacrifice much of his life just to get better. Not someone who will enter a professional tournament just because he can pay the entrance fee.

I like this format because there is really no " Bible" for "how to be a road player." This could be it. You will follow the player's every move. This could include high drama. Imagine losing all your money and you are far away from home. Throw in some possibility of fist-a-cups.

Now for self promotion, we can all be the goto person of our "protagonist." You know, someone he can call when things turn bad. We can be on TV. Yes, I want my 15-min of fame.

Then we all pitch it in to Bravo Channel.

 

[Drew]

Why not create a pilot episode of following the trials and tribulations of a serious road player. You can title it something like "The Quest for Glory" or "Finding Buddy Hall," basically documenting one player's journey from obscurity to his/her first big professional tournament.

Then we all pitch it in to Bravo Channel.

I started documenting my "quest for glory" a few months ago. It's pretty much just a few hours of footage taken on a 10 yr old camcorder. I'll be getting a better camera before I hit the road. I figure a couple months on the road will produce hours and hours of usable stuff. I also have my financial records of not just pool, but all the forms of gambling I frequently participate in. After spending money on my cue, books, and other "investments" I'm up about $130 this month so far. Overall, I'm still down about a grand. But I was down about 2 grand in December, so at least I'm getting better, or smarter. I have tons of raw data on myself. One of these days I need to organize it. I thought that going on the road would make a great real life documentary of some sort. With the right footage and editing, any one of those tv networks will invest in the idea.

 

[crosseyedjoe]

I started documenting my "quest for glory" a few months ago. It's pretty much just a few hours of footage taken on a 10 yr old camcorder. I'll be getting a better camera before I hit the road. I figure a couple months on the road will produce hours and hours of usable stuff. I also have my financial records of not just pool, but all the forms of gambling I frequently participate in. After spending money on my cue, books, and other "investments" I'm up about $130 this month so far. Overall, I'm still down about a grand. But I was down about 2 grand in December, so at least I'm getting better, or smarter. I have tons of raw data on myself. One of these days I need to organize it. I thought that going on the road would make a great real life documentary of some sort. With the right footage and editing, any one of those tv networks will invest in the idea.

I suggest you get a different person filming you. This will at least avoid some level of "self editing" or "self censorship."

 

[Drew]

I suggest you get a different person filming you. This will at least avoid some level of "self editing" or "self censorship."

Want a job? I can afford to throw you a couple bucks a day. Unfortunately not many of my friends like to sit back and watch me play for countless hours, or rather, days at a time. As of now, I point the camera at the table and go from there. I agree that I can't be the one to edit the footage. I'll find some minions to do that for me. Depending on how good it all is, maybe the discovery channel or mtv would help me out in the production process.

 

[crosseyedjoe]

I'm selling my house and moving to Manila, because I can't stand to live in a country that does not have the best pool players in the world. BTW how old are you?

Not Manila, Tagaytay is the place to be about 2hrs from Manila closer to Angeles City if you wanna hunt down Efren Reyes.

 

[crosseyedjoe]

Want a job? I can afford to throw you a couple bucks a day. Unfortunately not many of my friends like to sit back and watch me play for countless hours, or rather, days at a time. As of now, I point the camera at the table and go from there. I agree that I can't be the one to edit the footage. I'll find some minions to do that for me. Depending on how good it all is, maybe the discovery channel or mtv would help me out in the production process.

You're missing a good part of your story, your tamtrums, whining, surprise and elation, what you end up buying for lunch or where you sleep when you're low on dough.