C.F. Shaft Fabrication...

EL Picos

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Do golf shafts/clubs have taper too ?

I'm seeing way too many problems with cf pool shafts.
Some have pit holes. Some easily mark or tear when getting worked on.
Seen some with lots of scratches by the tip.
I wax the ferrule area when trimming tips on them b/c they scratch easily with the blade.
Their balance can be funny. The added weight has to be near the middle.
If it's by the joint area only, the balance is just horrible.


If you fill them with the right foam density, the weight will be all long uniform.
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Gold Member
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If you fill them with the right foam density, the weight will be all long uniform.

You don't want to.
The front end has to be light for deflection purposes .
That's why Revo's added weight is about a foot from the joint.
I used a magnet to locate it.
 

EL Picos

AzB Silver Member
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You don't want to.
The front end has to be light for deflection purposes .
That's why Revo's added weight is about a foot from the joint.
I used a magnet to locate it.

A lot of method can do the job, CF shafts are only at their begining.
 

EL Picos

AzB Silver Member
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Do you think that a shaft with a long 13.5mm approx. pro taper and drop down in the last 4 inches to 12 to 12.5mm tips would be nice, the lightweight of CF allows this possibilities.
 

erriep

AzB Silver Member
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A lot of method can do the job, CF shafts are only at their begining.
yep, even composite & CF high end shafts are produced for >20 years in Italy , at this time the italians were producing glass/epoxy, CF epoxy & Aramid based shafts for the 5 pins players / 5 pins game ... Italian composite 5 pins cues did (and still do) have advanced balance systems.
 
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JoeyInCali

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Do you think that a shaft with a long 13.5mm approx. pro taper and drop down in the last 4 inches to 12 to 12.5mm tips would be nice, the lightweight of CF allows this possibilities.

No. It would be unplayable to almost all people.
12.5mm tip to 13.5mm in the middle would be good imo.
That would be a real "pro-taper" imo.
 

EL Picos

AzB Silver Member
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No. It would be unplayable to almost all people.
12.5mm tip to 13.5mm in the middle would be good imo.
That would be a real "pro-taper" imo.

Why do you think that, for aiming line or...
I seen very nice players in snooker with configuration like that, I prefer a lot a thicker pro taper than a slim one, the snooker players cues are around 13,5 to 14mm in their strocking zone, why not!
 

EL Picos

AzB Silver Member
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yep, even composite & CF high end shafts are produced for >20 years in Italy , at this time the italians were producing glass/epoxy, CF epoxy & Aramid based shafts for the 5 pins players / 5 pins game ... Italian composite 5 pins cues did (and still do) have advanced balance systems.

Evolution goes fast today, Becue are Italians and it seem nice products.
 

JoeyInCali

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Why do you think that, for aiming line or...
I seen very nice players in snooker with configuration like that, I prefer a lot a thicker pro taper than a slim one, the snooker players cues are around 13,5 to 14mm in their strocking zone, why not!

You should try marketing them.
Good luck.
You're not going to find many pool players who's going to play with that taper.
 

EL Picos

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You should try marketing them.
Good luck.
You're not going to find many pool players who's going to play with that taper.

Nobody can be sure of that!
Why butts are always straight taper? Mine and some of my friends have the same diameter for 12 inch long, mine have 30mm and I prefer it than straight taper...
 

JoeyInCali

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Nobody can be sure of that!
Why butts are always straight taper? Mine and some of my friends have the same diameter for 12 inch long, mine have 30mm and I prefer it than straight taper...

Don't let me stop you.
I say you should have them made and marketed .

The usual butt has approximately 10.5 mm taper from joint to the bottom.
Some have two to three angles. Some have curve tapers.
Straight forearms are not common. Or straight handles . The average handle is around 1.03" at the top and about 1.200" at the bottom.

I have no clue where your friends get theirs made.
30mm taper is insane in pool today.
An .840" joint size would have a 2" diameter bottom.
NOBODY would buy it .
 

EL Picos

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Don't let me stop you.
I say you should have them made and marketed .

The usual butt has approximately 10.5 mm taper from joint to the bottom.
Some have two to three angles. Some have curve tapers.
Straight forearms are not common. Or straight handles . The average handle is around 1.03" at the top and about 1.200" at the bottom.

I have no clue where your friends get theirs made.
30mm taper is insane in pool today.
An .840" joint size would have a 2" diameter bottom.
NOBODY would buy it .

What is your preferred TV emission? I suppose The Flintstones :)
 

Hits 'em Hard

AzB Silver Member
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Yesterday you did not know if Revo was roll wrapped and today you speak like a little Enstein, your speech worth no more than nothing.

Because I couldn't figure out if you were trolling or not. I didn't feel the need to explain what that webpage already has there again. I was speaking from the standpoint of of which layers go which direction, how much angle each layer is started at. Thickness/width of the tow. And a multitude of other data points that matter. I don't know their exact process, and I don't care to. But to satisfy you, they're multi direction layers of a carbon tow, not weave, with a final filament coat. That good enough for you?

Manuf. process is the same. A golf shaft has to withstand WAAAY more stress than a pool shaft ever will. The flexing and twisting forces that a golf shaft has to put up with are tremendous. A pool shaft is basically getting tapped along the long axis. Doesn't require anywhere near the hi-modulus fibers that a golf shaft does. I talked to an engineer at Aldila about this and he said there is absolutely no reason a pool shaft should cost what they do other than just straight up greed.

You're not too far off, but you've forgotten that carbon fiber is much strong along is length axis. The fact that golf shafts are hollow increases their strength across their length. A tube that cannot deform slightly is weaker than one that can. A golf shaft may withstand the torsional load of the club head, and bending force of the shaft flex. But they cannot withstand an impact to the end fibers without splitting. Also add in the fact that golf shafts should never contact something as hard as a table either. You end up with a product of a completely different nature.

Do golf shafts/clubs have taper too ?

I'm seeing way too many problems with cf pool shafts.
Some have pit holes. Some easily mark or tear when getting worked on.
Seen some with lots of scratches by the tip.
I wax the ferrule area when trimming tips on them b/c they scratch easily with the blade.
Their balance can be funny. The added weight has to be near the middle.
If it's by the joint area only, the balance is just horrible.

Yes they have tapers. Direct relation to the intended kick point(launch angle and spin) of the shaft. A slim neck(near the club head) and a fat middle is a considered a low kick shaft. They're designed to produce a low launch and low spinning ball. Intended for people with better swings.

Golf shaft manufacturing has definitely went through the same stage of problems that these new cues shafts are experiencing. They've gone from the standard weave rolled around a mandrel, to multi-layered directional winding's of a tow. We will eventually get to a point where we wont need to add anything to increase weight. Right now there is no reason the shafts need to have a continuous uniform wall thickness from tip to joint.

Cue makers will understand the importance of the beginning steps to ensure a quality product eventually. Right now its all about the greed. Just like desi trying to make a carbon weave based shaft to get on the bandwagon.


Nobody can be sure of that!
Why butts are always straight taper? Mine and some of my friends have the same diameter for 12 inch long, mine have 30mm and I prefer it than straight taper...

It seems you have far more to learn about the way things really work before you're ready to jump into this endeavor of yours. Everything we think we know for tapers now, goes out the window when dealing with carbon shafts now. Wall thickness and such affect flex. A 14mm tip with a wall thickness of 1mm will flex way more than a 12mm tip with a 1mm wall.
 

Hits 'em Hard

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is totally impossible.

Please enlighten me as to why you think that may be the case. Remember we’re talking of a tapered tube, a cone if you wish. Not straight sided tube, a pipe. You seem to not grasp many concepts when dealing with composites.
 

EL Picos

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Please enlighten me as to why you think that may be the case. Remember we’re talking of a tapered tube, a cone if you wish. Not straight sided tube, a pipe. You seem to not grasp many concepts when dealing with composites.

From what I read, you seem a CF Pro, therefore you explain me why a tapered tube of 1mm of wall 3 feet long will be more flexible in the larger part than the smaller part of the tube.
 

j2pac

Marital Slow Learner.
Gold Member
Silver Member
From what I read, you seem a CF Pro, therefore you explain me why a tapered tube of 1mm of wall 3 feet long will be more flexible in the larger part than the smaller part of the tube.

Because the smaller part is stiffer...By design.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Because the smaller part is stiffer...By design.
The big end is stiffer based on the circumferance. Not the tip end. Apply the same amount of torque to each end. The small end will both flex and twist more.
 
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j2pac

Marital Slow Learner.
Gold Member
Silver Member
The big end is stiffer based on the circumferance. Not the tip end. Apply the same amount of torque to each end. The small end will both flex and twist more.

Not necessarily.
 
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