California Cue-Makers - No More Ivory......

[Shawn Armstrong]

Your response is whats pathetic. YOU "categorize" the use of ivory as one of shameful negativity. So at least now we know where to get our answers to EVERYTHING... When someone responds like you did to a post like mine maybe it will show that you may NOT be the one who has all the answers....

If you equate chopping down trees for the use of creating building materials, or raising animals for the purpose of feeding people....with supporting an industry known for killing live elephants for their tusks just so you can have an ivory ferrule or inlay.....your moral compass needs a tune up. Badly.

You're probably one of the guys that "liked" the dentist that shot the lion and posted it on Facebook. After all, we ARE consumers, right?

 

[jasonlaus]

Stainless Joint, Ivory Ferrule. Nothing is better!!! Hit, feel, sound.

 

[Wheels33]

Do you live in an igloo or cave? Those are the only two dwellings I can think of that don't use any living thing to build...How do you get your heat and air conditioning? All heat and air is derived the use of wood, gas, or oil which IS are the bones and blood of Mother Earth...Do you own a car or even take public transportation? So you do use some of mothers blood...How about a leather belt of jacket? Gotta slaughter those cows to have that luxury... How about clothing... Gotta embarrass those sheep but trimming them naked. Soooo demeaning.....Do you eat? That's right eat.. ANYTHING.. All food comes from what was once a living thing....I can go on and on... Ya see EVERYBODY "takes" from this earth. YOU are no exception. If elephants, in fact ALL animals, understood the lifestyle humans enjoy they would want a piece of it as well....We "consume" to live. And live well we do. Some more than others. Some consume in a more lavish way with fur coats, nice leather clothing, and yes Ivory for artwork and cue parts. Just because you focus on condemning such a tiny aspect of human existence doesn't mean you can EXCLUDE yourself and self rituous holier than thou attitude while you willingly participate in the SAME indescetions you are accusing others of... So ya see you're actually describing yourself and don't give two s#%^* about the world around you either then.. "Pot calling......"

It must be so peaceful living in such blind ignorance.

 

[Wheels33]

Now that the ban on the sale of ivory of any kind in California is about to take effect in less than 8 months, what do you foresee as the resultant impact?

Will any cue-makers be tempted to relocate outside of California because of the ban or will they just use substitute material for their fancy cue designs?
And does not being able to use ivory jeopardize any future cue sales?

Forget for the moment whether the law is good or bad or fair or prejudicial......it is what it is so conformity and compliance is non-negotiable........everyone
has to obey the regulation if you reside in California.

If you own a cue that was made with ivory and the same CA cue-maker cannot make that same cue design again, or anything even similar, using ivory, does
the cue made with ivory appreciate since it cannot be made again, i.e., any future rarity & scarcity?

Prewitt, Tonkin, Carmeli, McWorter, Chudy, Cohen, Morris, Porper, etc.........those cues won't contain any ivory any longer after July 1. 2016......if you own
such a cue, does the ban help the value.......it can't hurt the value since you can still sell your ivory pool cue outside of California.....Las Vegas is only 8 hrs. drive.

What do you think will happen with California cue-makers? The ban also means that any cue-maker residing outside California, must still abide by the ivory ban
when the customer resides in California. So how doe you see this developing? I placed an order for two custom cues to be built as soon as the ban was passed.
Those will likely be my last ivory joint cues unless I buy a cue from the resale market before next summer.and a Hercek cue would be nice to own.

Back to the ban. less than 8 months until no more ivory sales in CA even if you cue was made in 1970......it sucks but like I earlier wrote, it is what it is.

Matt B.


"Governor Jerry Brown signed AB 96 that finally closes a loophole in the state’s ban on importing and buying elephant ivory.
California is the third state to ban all sales of ivory after New York and New Jersey. The state is one of the largest U.S. markets for the product.
California has already had an ivory ban on the books since 1977. Until now, shopkeepers were allowed to sell ivory that was imported before 1977.
The new goes into effective July 1, 2016, with fines up to $50,000 and a year in jail for illegal sales.

IMO, I think that ivory cues will go the way of mink fur coats.

At the current rate of poaching, it's estimated that elephants will be extinct by 2020. Combine that with the fact that a lot of the money from poaching goes to fund war and terrorism and you can understand why there is a growing anger towards the sale and use of ivory no matter what year it's from.

I think that even if the cue makers move to another State to make their ivory cues, it's only a matter of time before the ivory market dries up.

Old ladies still hold onto their minks, but don't feel comfortable wearing them in public. The old ladies still love having them and still see a value in them.....but on the open market the coats are almost worthless.

 

[Bavafongoul]

OMG....what aberrant minds there are.......I am simply asking for opinions........what if I wanted to sell my EP cue so I could fund a purchase of a Hercek pool cue.........I'd do that for the right cue........I think I know what my Prewitt is worth now but will it be worth more if Ed can't make any more cues using ivory? I dunno.....I think it should be that's just my hunch.

However, if the ban would make my cue more valuable, then I'd be more inclined to think about selling it after the ban........I have family residing outside CA and I can get them to handle the sale for me.......I'll simply gift my Prewitt cue to my brother and then a little later he can "coincidentally" gift me a money order. However, I may never find the Hercek cue I am looking for so my EP will likely remain with me. I'm merely trying to ascertain what others view as the business consequences for California cue-makers and the cues they've made that used ivory.

And you're right.... this very well could be my 3rd thread, maybe even my 4th one. Soooo......don't read them......but each had a different slant. The CA ivory ban is serious shit since by practice, as well as historically speaking, what statutorily gets enacted in California invariably sooner or later is emulated other states. Go play ostrich or campaign for whatever issue you want but I am just looking for some earnest opinions about this thread's subject rather than the dribble some are posting. Why shouldn't I since it is my thread, Go start your own if you are so inclined to bash me or this topic but in the meantime, please allow this thread to continue without your intercession and continued efforts to derail its intended topic...."Nuf Ced!".......Thanks.

Matt B.

 

[JoeyInCali]

IMO, I think that ivory cues will go the way of mink fur coats.

At the current rate of poaching, it's estimated that elephants will be extinct by 2020. Combine that with the fact that a lot of the money from poaching goes to fund war and terrorism and you can understand why there is a growing anger towards the sale and use of ivory no matter what year it's from.

I think that even if the cue makers move to another State to make their ivory cues, it's only a matter of time before the ivory market dries up.

Old ladies still hold onto their minks, but don't feel comfortable wearing them in public. The old ladies still love having them and still see a value in them.....but on the open market the coats are almost worthless.

The elephants will be extinct in 4+ years ????
IMPORTATION OF IVORY TO THE US is already illegal. So is the exportation .
Interstate commerce of ivory here now has nothing to do with poaching .

 

[skins]

The elephants will be extinct in 4+ years ????
IMPORTATION OF IVORY TO THE US is already illegal. So is the exportation .
Interstate commerce of ivory here now has nothing to do with poaching .

It's useless Joey... There are many ill informed, ignorant, misguided still out there.. They're the type that believed an ice age was coming in the early 70's and now permanent global warming, or is it climate change is imminent. as well as believed Obama when he said we could keep our own doctor... These nonsensical "laws" with language that does NOTHING for the cause has more to do with paying off the lobbyists for political purposes and feeding the little programmed mice that don't have a mind of their own more propaganda to further their own cause. THAT will HAVE little to NO effect on the problem they "claim" is the reason for implementing such DRASTIC measure. To tell ANYONE in any US state that they can't purchase nor sell anything that they obtained LEGALLY is coming from the same camp that says we need to give PEOPLE who broke our laws and came to this country ILLEGALLY, amnesty... THESE are the kind of backwards thinkers and their pied piper propaganda that we're dealing with. Even here on AZ...

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

It's useless Joey... There are many ill informed, ignorant, misguided still out there.. They're the type that believed an ice age was coming in the early 70's and now permanent global warming, or is it climate change is imminent. as well as believed Obama when he said we could keep our own doctor... These nonsensical "laws" with language that does NOTHING for the cause has more to do with paying off the lobbyists for political purposes and feeding the little programmed mice that don't have a mind of their own more propaganda to further their own cause. THAT will HAVE little to NO effect on the problem they "claim" is the reason for implementing such DRASTIC measure. To tell ANYONE in any US state that they can't purchase nor sell anything that they obtained LEGALLY is coming from the same camp that says we need to give PEOPLE who broke our laws and came to this country ILLEGALLY, amnesty... THESE are the kind of backwards thinkers and their pied piper propaganda that we're dealing with. Even here on AZ...

https://www.worldwildlife.org/species/directory?direction=desc&sort=extinction_status

Notice: more than a few species of elephants on the list.

Perhaps you believe that all that ivory you're using is preban ivory. If so, you're one of the misguided and ignorant that you speak down at.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/08/140818-elephants-africa-poaching-cites-census/

Maybe Obama controls the WWF and National Geographic.

 

[cueaddicts]

What moronic responses these threads always generate, lol. There is zero need for poached ivory in cues made here in the US. There is already more than a sufficient amount of legal, pre-ban ivory already here.

 

[classiccues]

No clue.. any of you. There are people that think ivory gives them everlasting hard on's, that ivory posses magical powers and after 1000's of years these people are not going to change their superstitions. Now do to the economy and their good fortunes they have amassed a wealth that would allow them, and they will, buy ivory if it was $25000.00 dollars an ounce. In a place where the government is so corrupt, the fight is useless. So do you know what that means?

In laymens terms, the ivory bans, will ultimately be the death warrants of that species. It will have nothing to do with cues. It will be the governments lack of going after poachers and equipping the proper people with the right weaponry to actually make a dent.

Also the whole terrorist funding nonsense, put in play by the tree huggers because it is an easy fear to manipulate. The same fear trigger they claim conservatives use when there is a radical Islamic episode. There is not enough money is tusks to fund terror. The supposed terrorist funders do not need ivory sales, they have petroleum sales, which by far and its not even close, where terror money comes from. So how many of you are going to stop driving?


BTW NJ's ban is still up in the air as I understand it. There was a court case a few weeks ago... But it is on the docket, and not only in NJ. There are about 12 STATES thinking about the same nonsense.

IMO, I think that ivory cues will go the way of mink fur coats.

At the current rate of poaching, it's estimated that elephants will be extinct by 2020. Combine that with the fact that a lot of the money from poaching goes to fund war and terrorism and you can understand why there is a growing anger towards the sale and use of ivory no matter what year it's from.

I think that even if the cue makers move to another State to make their ivory cues, it's only a matter of time before the ivory market dries up.

Old ladies still hold onto their minks, but don't feel comfortable wearing them in public. The old ladies still love having them and still see a value in them.....but on the open market the coats are almost worthless.

 

[Maxx]

If you equate chopping down trees for the use of creating building materials, or raising animals for the purpose of feeding people....with supporting an industry known for killing live elephants for their tusks just so you can have an ivory ferrule or inlay.....your moral compass needs a tune up. Badly.

You're probably one of the guys that "liked" the dentist that shot the lion and posted it on Facebook. After all, we ARE consumers, right?

Ever hear of the phrase "habitat loss"?

 

[skins]

What moronic responses these threads always generate, lol. There is zero need for poached ivory in cues made here in the US. There is already more than a sufficient amount of legal, pre-ban ivory already here.

YES, absolutely you are correct... It's a shame these morons want to make owning and selling the LEGAL stuff a crime.. Such a crock

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

No clue.. any of you. There are people that think ivory gives them everlasting hard on's, that ivory posses magical powers and after 1000's of years these people are not going to change their superstitions. Now do to the economy and their good fortunes they have amassed a wealth that would allow them, and they will, buy ivory if it was $25000.00 dollars an ounce. In a place where the government is so corrupt, the fight is useless. So do you know what that means?

In laymens terms, the ivory bans, will ultimately be the death warrants of that species. It will have nothing to do with cues. It will be the governments lack of going after poachers and equipping the proper people with the right weaponry to actually make a dent.

Also the whole terrorist funding nonsense, put in play by the tree huggers because it is an easy fear to manipulate. The same fear trigger they claim conservatives use when there is a radical Islamic episode. There is not enough money is tusks to fund terror. The supposed terrorist funders do not need ivory sales, they have petroleum sales, which by far and its not even close, where terror money comes from. So how many of you are going to stop driving?


BTW NJ's ban is still up in the air as I understand it. There was a court case a few weeks ago... But it is on the docket, and not only in NJ. There are about 12 STATES thinking about the same nonsense.

Based on the above, we should also stop the war on drugs. Shit...make EVERYTHING legal. Let the world correct itself.

 

[skins]

No clue.. any of you. There are people that think ivory gives them everlasting hard on's, that ivory posses magical powers and after 1000's of years these people are not going to change their superstitions. Now do to the economy and their good fortunes they have amassed a wealth that would allow them, and they will, buy ivory if it was $25000.00 dollars an ounce. In a place where the government is so corrupt, the fight is useless. So do you know what that means?

In laymens terms, the ivory bans, will ultimately be the death warrants of that species. It will have nothing to do with cues. It will be the governments lack of going after poachers and equipping the proper people with the right weaponry to actually make a dent.

Also the whole terrorist funding nonsense, put in play by the tree huggers because it is an easy fear to manipulate. The same fear trigger they claim conservatives use when there is a radical Islamic episode. There is not enough money is tusks to fund terror. The supposed terrorist funders do not need ivory sales, they have petroleum sales, which by far and its not even close, where terror money comes from. So how many of you are going to stop driving?


BTW NJ's ban is still up in the air as I understand it. There was a court case a few weeks ago... But it is on the docket, and not only in NJ. There are about 12 STATES thinking about the same nonsense.

Better watch out, truth and common sense sounds like an out of tune guitar to these one note following rodents... Then again most of them prabably wouldn't know the difference anyway...Man that was harsh. But it fits. :wink:

Good post Joe..

 

[classiccues]

Based on the above, we should also stop the war on drugs. Shit...make EVERYTHING legal. Let the world correct itself.

So are you going to stop driving? OR are you going to go the route of "Well my oil comes from other sources".. you know like pre-ban ivory.

JV

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

So are you going to stop driving? OR are you going to go the route of "Well my oil comes from other sources".. you know like pre-ban ivory.

JV

Here's what I don't get about your argument. Gas is a necessary commodity. I have a motorcycle that I ride, instead of my car, whenever possible. I ride my bicycle, or walk, to work when the weather permits. But, when I drive, it's out of NECESSITY. And, the dinosaurs that died to make the oil were gone long before I joined this earth. Elephants are still alive...for now, but most predictions say we will lose the elephant in the next 100 years.

Can someone explain to me the absolute NECESSITY of ivory? Does it cure cancer? Nope. It's pretty. That's all. So let's wipe out animals because we like pretty things.

You can't argue about resources of scarcity, and use it to defend your "right to ivory". If someone can tell me a use for ivory besides in an artistic or aesthetic purpose, I'm all ears. But there isn't a reason aside from "well, I like it".

 

[skins]

Here's what I don't get about your argument. Gas is a necessary commodity. I have a motorcycle that I ride, instead of my car, whenever possible. I ride my bicycle, or walk, to work when the weather permits. But, when I drive, it's out of NECESSITY. And, the dinosaurs that died to make the oil were gone long before I joined this earth. Elephants are still alive...for now, but most predictions say we will lose the elephant in the next 100 years.

Can someone explain to me the absolute NECESSITY of ivory? Does it cure cancer? Nope. It's pretty. That's all. So let's wipe out animals because we like pretty things.

You can't argue about resources of scarcity, and use it to defend your "right to ivory". If someone can tell me a use for ivory besides in an artistic or aesthetic purpose, I'm all ears. But there isn't a reason aside from "well, I like it".

Can YOU explain making a law that makes something that was obtained legally, used to manufacture something that was also sold ALL legally mind you..NOW illegal to do with as you please? THAT answer is NO you can't. There is no reason...These new laws do NOTHING to stop the poaching of Ivory. NOTHING! They'll only hurt as mentioned.

Banning the sale and use of Ivory in FUTURE manufacturing is the way it's gonna go. I dont like it but can accept it. Just don't blindly punish those and their prior acquisitions. THATS what this law will do almost exclusively in this country.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Can YOU explain making a law that makes something that was obtained legally, used to manufacture something that was also sold ALL legally mind you..NOW illegal to do with as you please? THAT answer is NO you can't. There is no reason...These new laws do NOTHING to stop the poaching of Ivory. NOTHING! They'll only hurt as mentioned.

Banning the sale and use of Ivory in FUTURE manufacturing is the way it's gonna go. I dont like it but can accept it. Just don't blindly punish those and their prior acquisitions. THATS what this law will do almost exclusively in this country.

Those of us that live in countries other than the USA have had to deal with this for awhile now. It seems that only you Americans are the ones crying about it.

As soon as I see the word "ivory" in a cue description, I say "oh well....can't buy it", because the border cops could confiscate the cue, and I'm out all of my money for buying contraband. Let's debate speed limits and the legality of marijuana while we're here.

Funny that none of you have addressed my point regarding your NECESSITY to use ivory? You know, aside from the "it's pretty" argument.

 

[classiccues]

Shawn, I disagree. Its not about the necessity or not, its about the possibility of funding terrorism. It has become the most explosive talking points for the ban of ivory, and I am asking since terrorism is funded by some degree with oil, are you willing to stop driving?

Of course you're not going to.

BUT in your point you say dinosaurs were long gone, well out argument will be that the ivory is pre-ban, elephants long dead before I got here. What about the parts of Africa that CULL elephant populations? How almost extinct are they again?

JV

Here's what I don't get about your argument. Gas is a necessary commodity. I have a motorcycle that I ride, instead of my car, whenever possible. I ride my bicycle, or walk, to work when the weather permits. But, when I drive, it's out of NECESSITY. And, the dinosaurs that died to make the oil were gone long before I joined this earth. Elephants are still alive...for now, but most predictions say we will lose the elephant in the next 100 years.

Can someone explain to me the absolute NECESSITY of ivory? Does it cure cancer? Nope. It's pretty. That's all. So let's wipe out animals because we like pretty things.

You can't argue about resources of scarcity, and use it to defend your "right to ivory". If someone can tell me a use for ivory besides in an artistic or aesthetic purpose, I'm all ears. But there isn't a reason aside from "well, I like it".

 

[classiccues]

The necessity of using elephant ivory is that killing liberals for bone inlay is more illegal.

JV

Those of us that live in countries other than the USA have had to deal with this for awhile now. It seems that only you Americans are the ones crying about it.

As soon as I see the word "ivory" in a cue description, I say "oh well....can't buy it", because the border cops could confiscate the cue, and I'm out all of my money for buying contraband. Let's debate speed limits and the legality of marijuana while we're here.

Funny that none of you have addressed my point regarding your NECESSITY to use ivory? You know, aside from the "it's pretty" argument.