"Call Shot 9ball"

It seems to me with 9 ball that the better the players are the less luck factors in. Its the guys who are not very good and ride the 9 that get seem to have games where luck is a factor. You know the guy, the one that misses and leaves you hooked by accident, if he made that ball he would have locked himself up, maybe that is skill???:confused:
How about the other guy who has been riding the 9 and kicks-combos-carom-banks the 9 in all on 1 shot, then the cue ball trickles to the edge of the slate and just hangs there laughing at your dumb ass for not riding the 9 too!!!!!:angry::angry::angry::angry:
 
fastone371 said:
It seems to me with 9 ball that the better the players are the less luck factors in. Its the guys who are not very good and ride the 9 that get seem to have games where luck is a factor. You know the guy, the one that misses and leaves you hooked by accident, if he made that ball he would have locked himself up, maybe that is skill???:confused:
How about the other guy who has been riding the 9 and kicks-combos-carom-banks the 9 in all on 1 shot, then the cue ball trickles to the edge of the slate and just hangs there laughing at your dumb ass for not riding the 9 too!!!!!:angry::angry::angry::angry:
Click to expand...
Totally agree. Luck-factor definitely goes down as player's abilities go up.
 
Might as well have ball behind the line.If 9-ball has gotten too easy then tweaking it is in order in my opinion.

Petros Andrikop said:
Hi all, I would like to share with fellow az members an interesting idea by former Greek 9ball Champion George Flemetakis regarding 9ball rules, personally i haven't seen something like this formulated before, any relative input along with comments on the format is welcomed.
So, here it is:

Call Shot 9ball​

By George Flemetakis, Greek 9ball Champion​

- Call each shot

- Call either ball or safety

- In case of safety incoming player has to play

- No safety allowed by calling a ball

- In all other cases (eg called ball in wrong pocket, ball pocketed after safety call) incoming player has the option to play or let the opponent play again

- In case of play again, opponent has the right to push out

- No jump shots allowed

- Dry break rule from middle of table, push out allowed after break

- Preferably in alternate break format, 9 ball on the spot, race to 13 frames, competition size pockets
Click to expand...
 
I think that as much luck as possible should be removed from the professional games. There is nothing more ridiculous than a pro lucking in a ball, apologizing to his opponent with a hand wave, and then running out. Professionals should be held to a higher standard, nothing wrong with call shot.
 
sammylane12 said:
I think that as much luck as possible should be removed from the professional games. There is nothing more ridiculous than a pro lucking in a ball, apologizing to his opponent with a hand wave, and then running out. Professionals should be held to a higher standard, nothing wrong with call shot.
Click to expand...
You mean like snooker? Toughest game on earth and slop is allowed as are those chicken-s^*t roll-up safeties.
 
garczar said:
You mean like snooker? Toughest game on earth and slop is allowed as are those chicken-s^*t roll-up safeties.
Click to expand...

Also 3-cushion....an extremely skillful game.
Many shots you go a certain way because there is more than one way to score.

I think that if a player doesn’t like the tension of a fast game like nine-ball....
...he should stop playing it.

We often joke on here about the ridiculous rules they play in dive bars....
....stop trying to infest the game.
 
Petros Andrikop said:
Hi all, I would like to share with fellow az members an interesting idea by former Greek 9ball Champion George Flemetakis regarding 9ball rules, personally i haven't seen something like this formulated before, any relative input along with comments on the format is welcomed.
So, here it is:

Call Shot 9ball​

By George Flemetakis, Greek 9ball Champion​

- Call each shot

- Call either ball or safety

- In case of safety incoming player has to play

- No safety allowed by calling a ball

- In all other cases (eg called ball in wrong pocket, ball pocketed after safety call) incoming player has the option to play or let the opponent play again

- In case of play again, opponent has the right to push out

- No jump shots allowed

- Dry break rule from middle of table, push out allowed after break

- Preferably in alternate break format, 9 ball on the spot, race to 13 frames, competition size pockets
Click to expand...
Please explain: In case of play again, opponent has the right to push out

In this sentence, what does play again mean?

Please explain: Dry break rule from middle of table, push out allowed after break

I thought push out allowed after the break was always allowed for the first player shooting after the break, regardless of whether any balls are made on the break?
 
By your rules, are you allowed to play the 9-ball early if you call it, and what results if you don't make the 9-ball?

In our weekly 9-ball tournaments, in which is the 9-ball is spotted if made on the break and the 9-ball always has to be called at all times, I've added a rule that if you call the 9-ball early and miss it, your opponent has the option to accept the shot or pass it back. Also, if you call the 9-ball early, even if you make another ball on the shot, you still lose your turn and your opponent has the option to shoot or pass it back to you.

Some of our players initially complained, but I just felt strongly that if you're going to call the 9-ball early, there should be some consequences if you miss it, and you should not be allowed to keep your turn if you miss the 9-ball but make another ball. This also means, if you pocket the 9-ball unintentionally, it spots up and that player does NOT get to keep their turn at the table.
 
Thank you all for your replies so far, I'll try to provide some more useful input based on them.

- I know George for a long time, his intentions have nothing to do with any personal interest in any way. He has had his share of glory, having besides domestic some pretty good international success too. George is a truly charismatic player, regarding the level of play he has achieved I'll only refer to a statement Earl Strickland made when he was in Athens back in 2007 for a tournament. I point this out because watching Earl's stroke live was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen in Pool. Earl was practicing before one of his matches, while George was doing the same thing next table. Suddenly Earl turned to the crowd after noticing George's stroke, stating "this guy hits them even better than me!"...
George truly cares about what could possibly leave next generations with another fresh vision about the most popular game of Pool, nothing else.

- As already pointed out in previous posts, luck factor becomes less important as level of play increases. Nevertheless those few times that luck plays a part in the outcome of a match could be avoided, thus taking the game to a different dimension. I don't go into judging this approach, but I do think this way is worth trying, if possible by videotaping a match in this format, see how it goes.
George feels this would give the game a whole new perspective.

- I discussed thoroughly the details with him before bringing this to a written form. The extra ball in 10ball already distinguishes it quite a lot from 9ball, and taking away two way shots along with flukes gives that necessary different kind of pressure to do more to the player at the table while offering a fair chance against them to the sitting player.
The balance is kept by offering the player which got lucky the chance of "play again" if he's asked to, with the right to push out, bringing in more interesting strategy.

- Dry break from middle is the same as the usual rule, with 3 balls having to pass middle of table instead of head string, it has been used in the US open if I'm not wrong, push out after the break is only mentioned in order to clarify that nothing else changes regarding the break.
Combination shots also still remain as an option.

Thanks again, I'll be back trying to assist further the discussion if needed.

Petros
 
Last edited:
Well for me..

I like 9 Ball the way it is. I also like playing 9 Ball with WPA 10 Ball rules, especially on the crumby bar tables in my hick town. But, no one else does and if I suggest it many locals would not like it or understand the rules.

I don't care what rules the pros play by and I don't think I should have any input in how they play their game. It is their chosen profession and they should decide on the rules. So I am left with the thought, if I don't like it, don't have to watch it.

I don't like alternate breaking, but I play it when friends come to play at my house. I want my friends to have fun when they shoot at my place and it is not fun for them and they get a beat down and I turn it into a spectator sport for them.

I also am fine with others making suggestions, especially if it makes "pool" more popular! Nothing wrong with thinking of ways to make a game play better for all.

Good old 9 Ball is fun and fast paced. Myself and about everyone I know is lucky to run a rack, so it is plenty hard enough as is for about any one I know.

Maybe some of you live and play some where that has good 9' tables full of run out players, I sure don't.

10 Ball is my favorite game, plenty of balls to try and run, lots of different shots and putting and keeping the white ball in the correct line is a never ending challenge.
 
Last edited:
I will only add one thing, coming from 50 years of experience. You can change the rules all you want and make the game seemingly more difficult or easier, depending on your point of view. You will still see the same results tournament after tournament. The best players will be there in the end. I don't care if you play slop 9-Ball, race to five (like in the MC), the best players will win! That's as simple as I can make it.

If you watch events like the MC you will see that even in short races there are twists and turns in many games and both players have an opportunity to win. The best players (and winners) will always be the ones who stand up best under pressure. What will never be covered by any "rules" is heart and who's is the biggest. I've said it before and I will say it again, the best players are the ones who come with the big shots under pressure, and then there's everyone else.

For years, DCC played the 9-Ball matches a race to seven and the nine counted on the break and you had to call nothing. Totally slop 9-Ball, right. Take a look at the names of the winners each year and then scour down to the first ten places. What you will see is a who's who of the best players on the planet. If 9-Ball was truly all luck then don't you think some shortstops would be winning or coming close. Even with the luck factor, I would still say that 9-Ball is 90% skill and 10% luck. Luck does come into play sometimes but it is rarely the determining factor of who wins.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen a decent player get a good roll against a better player and then fail to get out, often missing a make-able shot or playing bad position. Somewhere deep in his heart he knows he's not supposed to win and acts accordingly. Okay, my little rant is over. Carry on. :D
 
Last edited:
I'd say - make American Rotation more popular and a format generally played and you don't need to revise 9-ball. I prefer the non-slop rules of other games than 9-ball, but I believe it should largely stay the way it is - maybe call pocket and always call the 9 but nothing else. Call safety would make it a different game. Doesn't make much sense taking 2-way shots out of 9-ball.

The only thing that bothers me with 9-ball is when low-level players (like I am) play it and after every foul they set up a 9-combo and hope to make it somewhere somehow. Even though playing the 2, 3 or some other ball makes a lot more sense, the 9-ball combo is just a pot shot in the dark but the reward is enormous and there isn't much of a penalty if both players aren't exactly people who run out consistently on more than 2 or 3 balls. I would like to see a penalty for missed 9-ball combos.

All of this isn't important for the pro game, however. But I suppose we aren't all SVB's or Jayson Shaws, right?
 
ChrisinNC said:
By your rules, are you allowed to play the 9-ball early if you call it, and what results if you don't make the 9-ball?

In our weekly 9-ball tournaments, in which is the 9-ball is spotted if made on the break and the 9-ball always has to be called at all times, I've added a rule that if you call the 9-ball early and miss it, your opponent has the option to accept the shot or pass it back. Also, if you call the 9-ball early, even if you make another ball on the shot, you still lose your turn and your opponent has the option to shoot or pass it back to you.

Some of our players initially complained, but I just felt strongly that if you're going to call the 9-ball early, there should be some consequences if you miss it, and you should not be allowed to keep your turn if you miss the 9-ball but make another ball. This also means, if you pocket the 9-ball unintentionally, it spots up and that player does NOT get to keep their turn at the table.
Click to expand...

These are really good, fair and sensible rules for weekly tournaments where you are encouraging a players with a wide range of abilities to compete in short races. On the other hand, slop can also be good because it encourages bad players who get lucky to return.
 
Last edited:
fastone371 said:
It seems to me with 9 ball that the better the players are the less luck factors in. Its the guys who are not very good and ride the 9 that get seem to have games where luck is a factor. You know the guy, the one that misses and leaves you hooked by accident, if he made that ball he would have locked himself up, maybe that is skill???:confused:
How about the other guy who has been riding the 9 and kicks-combos-carom-banks the 9 in all on 1 shot, then the cue ball trickles to the edge of the slate and just hangs there laughing at your dumb ass for not riding the 9 too!!!!!:angry::angry::angry::angry:
Click to expand...

This is my take as well... Without all the balls in the way like other games someone who can do what they wish with the cue ball is much more dangerous than a gambler trying to luck into safeties and 9 rolls imo. Be the guy who can run 3 racks, not the guy who hopes he can get lucky roll and find himself up 3 zip?

I think the randomness is it’s own fun challenge mentally as well compared to other pool games. How do you manage not being outplayed (maybe you are playing stronger!) by the other player, but down 3 zip in a race to 5 still the same? Can you tighten up your game and make 5 straight back? Can you operate with confidence knowing you are going get lucky rolls too? Or do you fold mentally and chalk it up to being a crappy game. The best 9 baller seem to find ways to win regardless of the luck.

As far as the op, my thoughts echo others, seems like a lot of work extrapolating when you can just add the 10 ball and not have to reinvent the 9 ball wheel.
 
jay helfert said:
I will only add one thing, coming from 50 years of experience. You can change the rules all you want and make the game seemingly more difficult or easier, depending on your point of view. You will still see the same results tournament after tournament. The best players will be there in the end. I don't care if you play slop 9-Ball, race to five (like in the MC), the best players will win! That's as simple as I can make it.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. The best players will win time after time. No harm though in modifying rules to make a game tighter and more of a test of skill for players at all levels - and therefore an even better game. 8,9,10 and all other games have had rule changes over time - games evolve.
 
Meucciplayer said:
I'd say - make American Rotation more popular and a format generally played and you don't need to revise 9-ball. I prefer the non-slop rules of other games than 9-ball, but I believe it should largely stay the way it is - maybe call pocket and always call the 9 but nothing else. Call safety would make it a different game. Doesn't make much sense taking 2-way shots out of 9-ball.

The only thing that bothers me with 9-ball is when low-level players (like I am) play it and after every foul they set up a 9-combo and hope to make it somewhere somehow. Even though playing the 2, 3 or some other ball makes a lot more sense, the 9-ball combo is just a pot shot in the dark but the reward is enormous and there isn't much of a penalty if both players aren't exactly people who run out consistently on more than 2 or 3 balls. I would like to see a penalty for missed 9-ball combos.

All of this isn't important for the pro game, however. But I suppose we aren't all SVB's or Jayson Shaws, right?
Click to expand...
Our weekly tourney 9-ball rules - when you call the 9-ball and miss it, other player has option to pass it back if you get lucky and leave nothing. Even if you happen to make another ball on that shot, you still lose your turn and other player has that same option. Our weaker players hate this rule - too bad.
 
ChrisinNC said:
Our weekly tourney 9-ball rules - when you call the 9-ball and miss it, other player has option to pass it back if you get lucky and leave nothing. Even if you happen to make another ball on that shot, you still lose your turn and other player has that same option. Our weaker players hate this rule - too bad.
Click to expand...

I like it!
 
ChrisinNC said:
Our weekly tourney 9-ball rules - when you call the 9-ball and miss it, other player has option to pass it back if you get lucky and leave nothing. Even if you happen to make another ball on that shot, you still lose your turn and other player has that same option. Our weaker players hate this rule - too bad.
Click to expand...

I've seen tournaments where it's non-call shot except no golden 9 and you must call the 9 early, where a player can be on, say, the 4 and he calls the 9, pots the 4 and misses the 9 and carries on without losing his term. This is crazy as you might as well call the 9 on every shot, which defeats the object of the rule.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top