Call shot (again) at US Open 10 Ball

[David_Smith]

In the other thread I made about the impact of call shot rules during the US Open 10 ball, I was looking for specific examples of shots affected by the call shot rules. Going through the thread I find very few examples.

We had one example of the wrong ball pocketed. We have one example of a ball pocketed after calling safe. There was the 10 ball made in addition to the called ball where the 10 spotted in the guy's way. And I'll add the shot in the finals where LVC made a bank past a hanger in the side when he called the hanger.

I'm sure there were more balls slopped in than that somewhere along the line. But I'd wager there were many times that number of examples of players calling balls to protect themselves when the player has no intention of actually making that ball. This makes players look bad when they call a ball and then execute a perfect, and possibly multi-rail kick safety.

I say the impact of the rules is far more negative than positive and they should be trashed.

 

[dedstroke38]

In the other thread I made about the impact of call shot rules during the US Open 10 ball, I was looking for specific examples of shots affected by the call shot rules. Going through the thread I find very few examples.

We had one example of the wrong ball pocketed. We have one example of a ball pocketed after calling safe. There was the 10 ball made in addition to the called ball where the 10 spotted in the guy's way. And I'll add the shot in the finals where LVC made a bank past a hanger in the side when he called the hanger.

I'm sure there were more balls slopped in than that somewhere along the line. But I'd wager there were many times that number of examples of players calling balls to protect themselves when the player has no intention of actually making that ball. This makes players look bad when they call a ball and then execute a perfect, and possibly multi-rail kick safety.

I say the impact of the rules is far more negative than positive and they should be trashed.

Here here! :thumbup:

 

[AtLarge]

... This makes players look bad when they call a ball and then execute a perfect, and possibly multi-rail kick safety.

I say the impact of the rules is far more negative than positive and they should be trashed.

Look bad to whom? The other players know what's going on. Knowledgeable spectators know what's going on. Anyone who knows the rules knows what's going on.

Should we design the rules so that someone not keenly interested or involved won't misunderstand?

If there ever comes a time when it looks like pro pool could be elevated to significant-sport status with TV coverage and large incomes to the pro's, then we should think about what set of rules works best in that situation. I don't think that situation is on the horizon. Nor has it ever happened in the 25 years of Texas Express rules. So I favor a set of rules that levels the playing field in terms of luck and serves to identify who is playing the best pool during each match. That's call-shot pool in one version or another.

 

[sjm]

In the other thread I made about the impact of call shot rules during the US Open 10 ball, I was looking for specific examples of shots affected by the call shot rules. Going through the thread I find very few examples.

We had one example of the wrong ball pocketed. We have one example of a ball pocketed after calling safe. There was the 10 ball made in addition to the called ball where the 10 spotted in the guy's way. And I'll add the shot in the finals where LVC made a bank past a hanger in the side when he called the hanger.

I'm sure there were more balls slopped in than that somewhere along the line. But I'd wager there were many times that number of examples of players calling balls to protect themselves when the player has no intention of actually making that ball. This makes players look bad when they call a ball and then execute a perfect, and possibly multi-rail kick safety.

I say the impact of the rules is far more negative than positive and they should be trashed.

I agree 100%.

 

[cuesmith]

In the other thread I made about the impact of call shot rules during the US Open 10 ball, I was looking for specific examples of shots affected by the call shot rules. Going through the thread I find very few examples.

We had one example of the wrong ball pocketed. We have one example of a ball pocketed after calling safe. There was the 10 ball made in addition to the called ball where the 10 spotted in the guy's way. And I'll add the shot in the finals where LVC made a bank past a hanger in the side when he called the hanger.

I'm sure there were more balls slopped in than that somewhere along the line. But I'd wager there were many times that number of examples of players calling balls to protect themselves when the player has no intention of actually making that ball. This makes players look bad when they call a ball and then execute a perfect, and possibly multi-rail kick safety.

I say the impact of the rules is far more negative than positive and they should be trashed.

For the reasons you mentioned and many more, I agree. The "Call Shot" rule definately is more trouble than it's worth.

 

[JarnoV]

I agree with most of what OP is saying, but call-shot rules are required to enable the next level of the rules, namely the option pass a missed shot (and an unintentional safe) back.

 

[Rich R.]

In the other thread I made about the impact of call shot rules during the US Open 10 ball, I was looking for specific examples of shots affected by the call shot rules. Going through the thread I find very few examples.

We had one example of the wrong ball pocketed. We have one example of a ball pocketed after calling safe. There was the 10 ball made in addition to the called ball where the 10 spotted in the guy's way. And I'll add the shot in the finals where LVC made a bank past a hanger in the side when he called the hanger.

I'm sure there were more balls slopped in than that somewhere along the line. But I'd wager there were many times that number of examples of players calling balls to protect themselves when the player has no intention of actually making that ball. This makes players look bad when they call a ball and then execute a perfect, and possibly multi-rail kick safety.

I say the impact of the rules is far more negative than positive and they should be trashed.

For years members of this forum have been complaining about 9-ball because slop was allowed. Now you seem to be complaining about 10-ball because slop is not allowed. Why can't you just see the reality that per current rules, they are two totally different games with different rules? Slop is allowed in one game but not the other.

 

[David_Smith]

For years members of this forum have been complaining about 9-ball because slop was allowed. Now you seem to be complaining about 10-ball because slop is not allowed. Why can't you just see the reality that per current rules, they are two totally different games with different rules? Slop is allowed in one game but not the other.

We played call shot 9 ball on CJ's PCA tour in 1995 or 96 and imo it was a bad move. Then we played 10 ball on the Camel Pro Billiards Series with big purses and it was never call shot. Ten ball is a different game than 9 ball regardless if it's call shot or not. The Camel World 8 Ball was never call shot either. Call shot is bad for 8 ball, 9 ball and 10 ball.

I just think that the WPA has hijacked the standard game of 10 ball and bastardized the rules which were fine in the first place. I don't see why a group that had never even run 10 ball tournaments should try and rewrite the rules for a game we've been playing for years with no problems.

Call shot rules will hold back the natural evolution of the game to 11 and 12 ball because it rewards safe play too much.

How did you see the rules affect play in this tournament?

 

[jay helfert]

We played call shot 9 ball on CJ's PCA tour in 1995 or 96 and imo it was a bad move. Then we played 10 ball on the Camel Pro Billiards Series with big purses and it was never call shot. Ten ball is a different game than 9 ball regardless if it's call shot or not. The Camel World 8 Ball was never call shot either. Call shot is bad for 8 ball, 9 ball and 10 ball.

I just think that the WPA has hijacked the standard game of 10 ball and bastardized the rules which were fine in the first place. I don't see why a group that had never even run 10 ball tournaments should try and rewrite the rules for a game we've been playing for years with no problems.

Call shot rules will hold back the natural evolution of the game to 11 and 12 ball because it rewards safe play too much.


TAP TAP!

 

[JarnoV]

It's all fine to discuss this here, but has anyone asked the professionals? The few comments from pros I've heard here and there have all been in favor of call-shot and the option to pass back a missed shot rules. I'm pretty sure that very few touring pros like the fact that you can end up snookered if your opponent misses a called ball. And I'm also sure that most often they wouldn't even pass back the shot if it's a straight-forward 1/2 rail kick or a jump-shot.

I just don't think it would change the game that much. I'm willing to accept that I might be wrong, but the matches I've seen from SBE (where you could pass back the shot) seem to confirm that it doesn't have a big (negative) impact on how the game is played.
Maybe it would change the game for the worse in the long run, but who knows.

Hell, what's the opinion amongst the pros that comment on AZ forums? Donny Mills, Chris Bartram, others?