Can anyone explain this to me?

[FLICKit]

The attitude that you don't like is the key to the success of my business.

Which, of course, you're incapable of understanding.

May be when you get a little experience your words will have meaning.

LOL.... Prime example...

Do you have any idea of my level of experience? You may make some wild a$$ed guesses, but that's all you can do without having facts...

Nor do I have to volunteer any info, to someone with an attitude like yours.


Let's speak with the same lame viewpoint like yours....
Anyone with an attitude like yours won't remain in business for long. Anyone with such a pissy viewpoint towards his customers and the people around em will inevitably fail. It's only a matter of time. Takes smarter business practices in order to make it in business. If I had a pool room in your area, I'd put yours and 10 other like it outta business in no time...

 

[vapoolplayer]

My business takes different directions.

At one time we had 54 pool league teams playing weekly. That is a fair number of pool hobbyists (which I'll call pool players) mixed in with some "here for the beer" teams.

There are always exceptions, but the pool player group would get out spent by the others by about 3 or 4 to 1.

There are always exceptions, but the pool player group would be the most vocal, most irritated when something didn't go their way, most violent of the two.

There are always exceptions, but the pool player group would be the most critical of handicaps regardless of truth. (they always pursued an advantage, not fairness)

There are always exceptions, but the pool player group would be the first to ask for tournaments and then not show up.

Over time, you learn to like one group more than another.

BTW, when I first opened I would have to be categorized as a pool player.

great post..........gives some insight as to how hard it is to mix business and pool together.......

and until there are more "exceptions" to the "pool player" group..........pro pool is doomed.

thanks

VAP

 

[wayne]

The attitude that you don't like is the key to the success of my business.

Your attitude on here sucks. If you have the same attitude with your customers I certainly wouldn't want to be one.

Here in Los Angeles area there are many different poolhalls that cater to different publics:

Hollywood Billiards is super upscale and caters to the ballbangers for most of their income, however, poolplayers probably spend about $10,000 a month there and the owner is repectful of us (not like the above owner).

HardTimes is a players poolhall and seems to do very well catering mainly to poolplayers and is one of the finest and toughest players halls in the country (respectful owner).

House of Billiards Santa Monica has a huge base of (the dreaded) poolplayers and does a great business off of them and most of their income is generated off them (however my understanding is the owner is also an a-hole towards players).

House of Billiards in the Valley mainly caters to ballbangers but does good business off of poolplayers also (owner was a-hole to players but now that his son has become one he is a little better).

Shooters in Riverside, great for poolplayers, tournament room first class, the nicest owner I have ever met toward players, probably depends on both types of players for success.

There are dozens of others but these are the ones I mainly play at. Maybe in middle America things are different but here in Los Angeles poolplayers are pretty cool.

Wayne

 

[Teacherman]

LOL.... Prime example...

Do you have any idea of my level of experience? You may make some wild a$$ed guesses, but that's all you can do without having facts...

Nor do I have to volunteer any info, to someone with an attitude like yours.


Let's speak with the same lame viewpoint like yours....
Anyone with an attitude like yours won't remain in business for long. Anyone with such a pissy viewpoint towards his customers and the people around em will inevitably fail. It's only a matter of time. Takes smarter business practices in order to make it in business. If I had a pool room in your area, I'd put yours and 10 other like it outta business in no time...

You have to make several large leaps to conclude that my business is in jeopardy because of what I post on bulletin boards.

Don't ever forget that growing a business does not mean you have to accept all offers. I'm allowed to run my business and not let my business run me.

I'll also be the first to acknowledge that the way I run things today (15 yrs later) is different than when I was brand new.

Also, don't ever underestimate the good people. They appreciate a leader who takes a stand and runs off the undesireable element. Instead of a loose 10,000 I may have a solid 8000 that can't be blown out with dynamite.

Again, things you don't understand.

 

[FLICKit]

You have to make several large leaps to conclude that my business is in jeopardy because of what I post on bulletin boards.

Don't ever forget that growing a business does not mean you have to accept all offers. I'm allowed to run my business and not let my business run me.

And the customers are allowed to take their business elsewhere, which is what many of em do. People will frequent a place that is satisfactory and that caters to their needs. If a business doesn't meet up to these needs, then the customer will make their feelings known with their pocketbooks.

I'll also be the first to acknowledge that the way I run things today (15 yrs later) is different than when I was brand new.

Of course you believed that you were right about everything 15 years ago. Just like you believe you're right about everything now. You probably think you know everything now. Of course in another 15 years, you'll learn all the things you were wrong about now. That's life. Some learn the lessons harder than others. Some simply never learn em at all.

Also, don't ever underestimate the good people. They appreciate a leader who takes a stand and runs off the undesireable element. Instead of a loose 10,000 I may have a solid 8000 that can't be blown out with dynamite.

Again, things you don't understand.

Of course leaders lead by example. The examples they set say much more about their character than any other aspect about them. You have demonstrated your character and class quite consistently, and most people recognize you as such.

 

[frankncali]

Teacherman

I have been to your place and thought it was a very nice room. I got
good service and overall had a great time.
After reading the posts here by you I am surprised that the place was run so well. It just sounds to me like you hate pool and pool players.

I agree with some pool players being cheap but at the same time I ahve been one and can see our point. This is something we do 200 times a year. Most pool players spend way too much of their income throughout the year on POOL. But its pretty addictive.
When we are in a pool room 5 days a week and spend 20 bucks a day that can add up. I think its easier for owner to see the group that comes one day per week or 10 days and spend 100 per person. Looks like more but its not.

I have managed a pool room and have run tournaments. I have had some experience but not as mich as you. IMO tournaments are run for the locals and for advertising and for promotion of the business. I think that if a room owner only looks at that particular weekend for breaking even or making money then he is looking at it wrong.
I have heard the "road player" arguement several time and my response would be how many times have you or any other rooms had an event just for locals. That would be great in my book. I dont care about a bunch of roadies
coming in. Why not bring in a couple of Pros for an exhibition and trick shooting? Make it about giving back to the players in your room.

Its pretty expensive to put on an event like the Viking finals so that is a different senario but $25 bucks is high. How many guys can spend their normal amount of pool dollars and then spend an additional 50-100 to watch a
tournament for one day. Make it more reasonable not free. I ahve no problem paying but I cant spend money there if its all going to entry.

Like I mentioned already, I have been to one of your places and it was nice.
I really liked it and do wish you all the luck in the world with the business.
I just cant see it as cut and dry as you can.

 

[3RAIL KICK]

Educated a bit

I play pool, but I am not a 'player'. I think I have learned something from this spirited discussion. Hearing from the perspective of the room owner as to the real costs (opportunity) of running a tournament is helpful in understanding why he might choose to not have one or more likely, to decide not to have another one.

I've decided to appreciate more those local nightly tournaments, and especially the larger weekend tournaments that we occaisionally have in this area. My thanks to these local room operators and their staffs.

Often we don't appreciate what we have until it is gone. I wouldn't want that to be the case with these local tournaments. My participation amounts to 'dead money' as far as the purse is considered, but I do enjoy playing regardless of the outcome.

I guess I just like to play pool and wouldn't want to see any of those opportunities taken away because of something I have some control of. I'll pay my entry, buy some food and drink, tip as warranted, pay an admission if not competing and in general try to support the establishment providing me an outlet for my addiction to this game.

 

[cheesemouse]

I have tried to stay out of this one but...knowing something about the Food &Beverage, the Service business, and the Poolhall business I couldn't resist. Lets just say the poolhall business is really the F&Beverage business because in effect you can't crack the nut with just pool, it just ain't going to happen.
Teach makes good points about the business side of the fence. He may come across as a dicitoral know it all but he does so based on HIS experience trying to keep the doors open. This is a tough business with a very high failure rate. If your a hands on operator/owner the hours are brutal. You are in constant state of hiring, firing, training, and that is just the front end of the operation. The back end is scheduling, accounting, maintaining equiptment, cleaning the physical plant, and dealing with employees personal problems. If you can keep a lid on this type of business you just have to be good a crisis manager because that's what you do on a day to day basis. Even though Teach maybe a small operator, two units, he will probably never have the type of operation that can expand beyond his personal presents. It seems he is a mom & pop type operation and there sure is nothing wrong with that. Being the MAN of his plan everything depends on his seat of the pants decisions ( crisis management ). I maybe making some serious assumptions here but these assumptions are pretty standard for the business's where the owners footsteps are the best fertilizer for his business.
#1> I'll bet he has'nt taken a two week vacation in years; why, because he doesn't trust anyone with his baby. He is strung pretty tight...LOL
#2>Why is he such a hardnose? Knows his units are doing about as well as can be expected; no matter what he does now his profit/sales are not going to change much, so, why not be dicitoral, it feels good. Over the years he has gotten used to making snap decision ( like blowing a$$holes out the door; I use to love that part...LOL), It is fun to be god so why not have fun, and the employees will respect you for backing them up when they point out creeps. It's fun to talk shop after closing, you wouldn't believe what is said about customer after hours. Employees become very close nit and they party hardy together, this can be a pit fall when it come to providing good service but what the hell you gotta keep up the moral.
#3>Teach is a burnout; it happens...LOL

Having said all this I'm sure in Teaches mind I am wrong to the max and I don't have a fricking clue...so it goes.

 

[dogginda9]

I have tried to stay out of this one but...knowing something about the Food &Beverage, the Service business, and the Poolhall business I couldn't resist. Lets just say the poolhall business is really the F&Beverage business because in effect you can't crack the nut with just pool, it just ain't going to happen.
Teach makes good points about the business side of the fence. He may come across as a dicitoral know it all but he does so based on HIS experience trying to keep the doors open. This is a tough business with a very high failure rate. If your a hands on operator/owner the hours are brutal. You are in constant state of hiring, firing, training, and that is just the front end of the operation. The back end is scheduling, accounting, maintaining equiptment, cleaning the physical plant, and dealing with employees personal problems. If you can keep a lid on this type of business you just have to be good a crisis manager because that's what you do on a day to day basis. Even though Teach maybe a small operator, two units, he will probably never have the type of operation that can expand beyond his personal presents. It seems he is a mom & pop type operation and there sure is nothing wrong with that. Being the MAN of his plan everything depends on his seat of the pants decisions ( crisis management ). I maybe making some serious assumptions here but these assumptions are pretty standard for the business's where the owners footsteps are the best fertilizer for his business.
#1> I'll bet he has'nt taken a two week vacation in years; why, because he doesn't trust anyone with his baby. He is strung pretty tight...LOL
#2>Why is he such a hardnose? Knows his units are doing about as well as can be expected; no matter what he does now his profit/sales are not going to change much, so, why not be dicitoral, it feels good. Over the years he has gotten used to making snap decision ( like blowing a$$holes out the door; I use to love that part...LOL), It is fun to be god so why not have fun, and the employees will respect you for backing them up when they point out creeps. It's fun to talk shop after closing, you wouldn't believe what is said about customer after hours. Employees become very close nit and they party hardy together, this can be a pit fall when it come to providing good service but what the hell you gotta keep up the moral.
#3>Teach is a burnout; it happens...LOL

Having said all this I'm sure in Teaches mind I am wrong to the max and I don't have a fricking clue...so it goes.

Thanks for all the responses to my thread. I was looking for some differing ideas to my post. I want to add to my original thoughts. I think my original statement of $5 being fair was a little low. I used to be a small room owner so I have a working knowledge of the business. I'm also a pool player who loves the game. My post was not a shot at room owners or them making money. I know how hard a $10K investment would be to recoup, I just feel that if you are going to alienate people from attending the tournament, due to the cost of admission, why put it on at your room? It seems to defeat the purpose of having an event if Joe average fan can't afford to come in. $25-$30 is not a lot of money to some people, but it is to others. I'm curious how many of the regular "customers" at this room attended over the weekend. Had I been in town, I would have been one of the "dead money" participants in the tourney. It would have cost me less than half to get in the tournament than to watch every day. I spend a pretty good chunk of change throughout the year on pool so I feel I fit into the "player" as well as fan category and as such these are just my opinions. Thanks

 

[Teacherman]

And the customers are allowed to take their business elsewhere, which is what many of em do. People will frequent a place that is satisfactory and that caters to their needs. If a business doesn't meet up to these needs, then the customer will make their feelings known with their pocketbooks.



Of course you believed that you were right about everything 15 years ago. Just like you believe you're right about everything now. You probably think you know everything now. Of course in another 15 years, you'll learn all the things you were wrong about now. That's life. Some learn the lessons harder than others. Some simply never learn em at all.


Of course leaders lead by example. The examples they set say much more about their character than any other aspect about them. You have demonstrated your character and class quite consistently, and most people recognize you as such.

How does the saying go.......the spectators cheer and boo and offer their praise and displeasure. They can tell you how and when to do it. But they'll never know the thrill of victory or the agony of defeat because THEY'VE NEVER BEEN IN THE ARENA.

So goes my friend flickit.

 

[Teacherman]

I have been to your place and thought it was a very nice room. I got
good service and overall had a great time.
After reading the posts here by you I am surprised that the place was run so well. It just sounds to me like you hate pool and pool players.

I agree with some pool players being cheap but at the same time I ahve been one and can see our point. This is something we do 200 times a year. Most pool players spend way too much of their income throughout the year on POOL. But its pretty addictive.
When we are in a pool room 5 days a week and spend 20 bucks a day that can add up. I think its easier for owner to see the group that comes one day per week or 10 days and spend 100 per person. Looks like more but its not.

I have managed a pool room and have run tournaments. I have had some experience but not as mich as you. IMO tournaments are run for the locals and for advertising and for promotion of the business. I think that if a room owner only looks at that particular weekend for breaking even or making money then he is looking at it wrong.
I have heard the "road player" arguement several time and my response would be how many times have you or any other rooms had an event just for locals. That would be great in my book. I dont care about a bunch of roadies
coming in. Why not bring in a couple of Pros for an exhibition and trick shooting? Make it about giving back to the players in your room.

Its pretty expensive to put on an event like the Viking finals so that is a different senario but $25 bucks is high. How many guys can spend their normal amount of pool dollars and then spend an additional 50-100 to watch a
tournament for one day. Make it more reasonable not free. I ahve no problem paying but I cant spend money there if its all going to entry.

Like I mentioned already, I have been to one of your places and it was nice.
I really liked it and do wish you all the luck in the world with the business.
I just cant see it as cut and dry as you can.

Thanks for the complements. From California and been in my room? What are the odds of that? Just happy you were treated well. I'd bet you'd fall in the good group even though you play.

What I find the posters here have a difficult time doing is separating my personality on this board from my personality in the store. Not extremely different. But much more visible on this board. When I first opened, I was the attraction. I could play a little. I gave lessons. I was the league operator. I set handicaps. I was there open to close. Over years that has changed to the room, it's atmosphere and my employees being the attraction. Very few customers deal with me today. There are some that I see regularly that I have a relationship with, but for the most part 80-90% of the customers I don't know. I'm there during the day (7 days a week) doing the books, inventory, ordering, banking, planning, advertising, meeting with insurance people, straightening out legal issues, cleaning etc etc. i check in a couple nights per week to make sure the lid is on and now and then spend the evening there.

 

[Teacherman]

I have tried to stay out of this one but...knowing something about the Food &Beverage, the Service business, and the Poolhall business I couldn't resist. Lets just say the poolhall business is really the F&Beverage business because in effect you can't crack the nut with just pool, it just ain't going to happen.
Teach makes good points about the business side of the fence. He may come across as a dicitoral know it all but he does so based on HIS experience trying to keep the doors open. This is a tough business with a very high failure rate. If your a hands on operator/owner the hours are brutal. You are in constant state of hiring, firing, training, and that is just the front end of the operation. The back end is scheduling, accounting, maintaining equiptment, cleaning the physical plant, and dealing with employees personal problems. If you can keep a lid on this type of business you just have to be good a crisis manager because that's what you do on a day to day basis. Even though Teach maybe a small operator, two units, he will probably never have the type of operation that can expand beyond his personal presents. It seems he is a mom & pop type operation and there sure is nothing wrong with that. Being the MAN of his plan everything depends on his seat of the pants decisions ( crisis management ). I maybe making some serious assumptions here but these assumptions are pretty standard for the business's where the owners footsteps are the best fertilizer for his business.
#1> I'll bet he has'nt taken a two week vacation in years; why, because he doesn't trust anyone with his baby. He is strung pretty tight...LOL
#2>Why is he such a hardnose? Knows his units are doing about as well as can be expected; no matter what he does now his profit/sales are not going to change much, so, why not be dicitoral, it feels good. Over the years he has gotten used to making snap decision ( like blowing a$$holes out the door; I use to love that part...LOL), It is fun to be god so why not have fun, and the employees will respect you for backing them up when they point out creeps. It's fun to talk shop after closing, you wouldn't believe what is said about customer after hours. Employees become very close nit and they party hardy together, this can be a pit fall when it come to providing good service but what the hell you gotta keep up the moral.
#3>Teach is a burnout; it happens...LOL

Having said all this I'm sure in Teaches mind I am wrong to the max and I don't have a fricking clue...so it goes.

Quite the opposite cheesemouse. You've hit the nail on the head. Only change I would make is I would amend the comment....."Teach IS a burnout" to "Teach suffers from burnout".

What you appear to have a clue on and what most posters don't is the effort and committment it takes to make the business survive. It's daily. It's all you've got. Some have already read this in a previous post but when your rent is $19,000 per month, and the payroll is $25,000 per month, and the electric is $50,000 per year etc etc etc. There really is little room for mistakes........like hosting a $3000 added tournament and not getting your money back, that many here like to call advertising.

 

[Teacherman]

I play pool, but I am not a 'player'. I think I have learned something from this spirited discussion. Hearing from the perspective of the room owner as to the real costs (opportunity) of running a tournament is helpful in understanding why he might choose to not have one or more likely, to decide not to have another one.

I've decided to appreciate more those local nightly tournaments, and especially the larger weekend tournaments that we occaisionally have in this area. My thanks to these local room operators and their staffs.

Often we don't appreciate what we have until it is gone. I wouldn't want that to be the case with these local tournaments. My participation amounts to 'dead money' as far as the purse is considered, but I do enjoy playing regardless of the outcome.

I guess I just like to play pool and wouldn't want to see any of those opportunities taken away because of something I have some control of. I'll pay my entry, buy some food and drink, tip as warranted, pay an admission if not competing and in general try to support the establishment providing me an outlet for my addiction to this game.

If nothing else, I hope this informations helps you make a committment to support your local pool room and realize that although the owner may be as calm as can be, he's fighting like crazy underneath to keep things moving in the right direction. And, the next time he holds a tournament, be sure you're the first to sign up.

 

[vagabond]

Hollywood Billiards is super upscale and caters to the ballbangers for most of their income, however, poolplayers probably spend about $10,000

Wayne

Howdy ,
I am shooting to be there on 10th of April.cheers
vagabond

 

[turquoisecrazy]

No you don't.......Have you ever put the money up front and then tried to get it back?........And don't say you understand if you've voted with your feet and left. If you don't like the price, you have every right to leave. But don't go on the message board and complain about it. If you don't have what it takes to watch the match, don't blame someone else.

I don't know the details but the room owner has made a judgement on how many people will show and what price each needs to pay for the owner to come out.

IF he made a good judgement and IF the people pay the fare, THEN he gets even or makes a little.

Whatever the owner put up front is gone. He's the one gambling here. More so than the players.

And it's typical of fans to whine and complain about not enough events but they have no flippen clue what it takes. And usually won't do their part......Yea, joe is a great owner....put up another $1000 to have Sam play Dick.......let's go get a burger up the street......Got any water here?

Remember, the owner had his up front money before the match.

Why should he gamble on cheap ass pool fans, promote the event and then watch them pay and complain, or not pay at all.

You SOB's are the cheapest ass customers on earth.......OR the whiniest bunch of nags. Either one is less than desirable.

As always, you are 100% right on the money.

 

[frankncali]

Actually I am not even from SoCal but rather Alabama. I used to travel quite a bit and was in O'Fallon for about 6 weeks. When traveling I used to go to rooms and look around trying to get ideas. I hope I am remembering right about your place. Its got raised areas with seating and 2 bars and the tables are on the lower level. If I remember right it was kind of V-shaped.

I know I have been to Teachers becuase I have it written down in my pool
book or places to play. When I was traveling I would write down names and locations of places so if I had to go back I would already know places to play.

I do believe its a tough buisness to run and has to be handled with a
handson approach. I hope to open a place here in SoCal but finacially have not been able to as of yet.
I believe in getting the league players involved in the business. Some people dont like leagues but they are staedy business and loyal.
While I dont agree with your stances on everything I find it hard to believe that a successful business person is so cut and dry with decisions. Something tells me thats only the first reaction and not the whole truth to Teacherman. My guess is that you rule the roost there at your business and make decisions quickly and assertively thus thats why the quick reactions here. I think that you also "THEN" put some consideration into other options
or answers to questions and problems.
This is a pretty good bunch of guys and gals on here and I have met a few
of them. The internet gets a little snappy from time to time. If I am ever
towards St Louis I will try to stop in and see about a free water.
frankncali

Thanks for the complements. From California and been in my room? What are the odds of that? Just happy you were treated well. I'd bet you'd fall in the good group even though you play.

What I find the posters here have a difficult time doing is separating my personality on this board from my personality in the store. Not extremely different. But much more visible on this board. When I first opened, I was the attraction. I could play a little. I gave lessons. I was the league operator. I set handicaps. I was there open to close. Over years that has changed to the room, it's atmosphere and my employees being the attraction. Very few customers deal with me today. There are some that I see regularly that I have a relationship with, but for the most part 80-90% of the customers I don't know. I'm there during the day (7 days a week) doing the books, inventory, ordering, banking, planning, advertising, meeting with insurance people, straightening out legal issues, cleaning etc etc. i check in a couple nights per week to make sure the lid is on and now and then spend the evening there.

 

[frankncali]

Howdy ,
I am shooting to be there on 10th of April.cheers
vagabond

Its a really nice place. Its pricey to me but the location and the clients
warrant it. I like to play upstairs more than down but dont really know why.
I have seen more celebrities on the second floor rather than the first.
Use the Valet or rather be prepared to use the valet. Another suggestion is
to call for directions. Someone there will be able to get you there the easiest route.

 

[Teacherman]

As always, you are 100% right on the money.

I already voted.

 

[turquoisecrazy]

I already voted.

Thank you so much. Much Appreciated. This is just to show that I do not forget my voters--I wont just leave you right after you vote. Besides, i really think you are 100% right. I am your biggest fan.

Do you think your friends and customers and employees have voted yet?

 

[FLICKit]

How does the saying go.......the spectators cheer and boo and offer their praise and displeasure. They can tell you how and when to do it. But they'll never know the thrill of victory or the agony of defeat because THEY'VE NEVER BEEN IN THE ARENA.

So goes my friend flickit.

Just more BS crap from you. You've never been there. If you had any clue of what it takes to appeal to the masses then you would've done it. But you haven't, cuz you're clueless. You just sit back in your tiny lil corner, cuz nobody else wants any part of you. That's the way it is, and that's the way it'll always be. Your rantings are meaningless. Your actions say it all.... nothing.