can mosconi's high run be beat'n?

Simple answer is NO! If it could be beat it would have been beaten and recorded already. Who ever that person is some day, that does beat Willie's record, will become an overnight celebrity and instant pool legend!

Maybe what passes for a celebrity in the pool community by which I mean 99% of most people wouldn't know who they were if they punched them in the face.
 
"No bar, no bowling alley, no pinball machines. Just pool. Nothin else."

And no juke box? Where are you located? I'll be there by midnight though Hell should bar the way.

Dave Nelson
 
I do not want to imply that anyone posting on this thread was being disrespectful of Willie's accomplishments. Heck, that would be a foolhardy undertaking because he truly stands alone.

And as JB commented, indoor air conditioning was around in the 50's. But let me set things straight....I lived in the 50's and was raised in Brooklyn, NY. If you made $100 a week in the 50's, your were doing really good. Not many people did back then but my point is air conditioning for most people was not affordable. And rest assured when you went barn storming on some nation-wide tour exhibition like Willie & Ralph used to do as a duo, the towns you played in were not exactly a metropolis. Ergo, when you travelled in the hinterlands like Willie did, the pools halls were not plosh locations. In all probability, air conditioning was a rare treat in its early years.

Nonetheless, what Willie did in aggregate has remained untouchable. The conditions of actual play are pretty much unknown to all of us because we weren't there. But I was born in '46 and I remember vividly what it was like growing up at that time. And my dad made more than a $100 bucks a week on his job and we didn't get air conditioning until the early 60's. And my dad wasn't cheap and we lived in a major city too. So I can't imagine what it was for people living in Springville, Missourri or Macon, Georgia because those size cities were stops for the Brunswick touring pros.

It would be a thrill to see someone challenge or break Mosconi's record of 526 balls. But the one thing that most posting here have not given sufficient credit to is Willie's records achieved playing on a 5'x10' pool table. I think that's because many may never have played much on a 5'x10' venue. I played growing up as a teenager on 10' tables and when Brunswick introduced the 9' tables to make playing pool more friendly for the recreational player, 10' tables became a dying breed. More 9' tables could be squeezed into a pool hall than 10' tables and the end of the 10' tables was inevitable.

So before I would ever crown someone a player equal to Willie, that person would have to exceed Willie's tournament performance numbers because after all, they'd be playing on a 9' table which basically is analagous to what Willie did on that 8' table when he pockted 526 balls consecutively. Let's see how many players today could run over 100 balls on a 10' table in tournament play for the US Championship (lots of pressure and the strongest field imaginable). Willie made it seem easy and I can't imagine how more dominating he'd have been if he always played on the smaller 9' tables versus the monster 10' tables.

If you get the opportunity to ever play on a 10' table, see how you fare versus your typical practice sessions on a 9' table. Don't be surprised if a curse word or two doesn't enter your conversation about playing on a 10' table. Everything becomes harder, especially cue ball position control. So that's where I think comparing Willie to today's modern players will always be wanton and suspect.

But let me clear, I do not think anyone posting was showing disrespect for Willie. But I don't think they were giving Mosconi the added respect he deserves. They're overlooking that he mainly played on a bigger table back in the day when he dominated the pool world, played herculean matches to win the US Championship (often involving more than a dozen matches in several cities to reach 2500 points), beating all of his opponents several times in round robin play, and usually crushing the final opponent.

Now Willie had off days too and was knocked out of some tournaments played before World War II but don't be mistaken or confused, this was rarely happened to him. There's lots of fabled stories about Willie. How about the time he and Minnesota Fats played .......it never happened. Willie and Minnesota "NEVER" played for money or ever played each other in the US Championship or any other tournament either, The only time they played was as exhibition on ABC Wide World of Sports and Minnesota Fats never beat Mosconi in any match. Willie offered to play Minnesota for any amount of money, even offerring to play him for $100,000 but the Fats always ducked playing Willie and never accepted the challenge. Yet Fats would boast and brag about how those pro players could never beat a hustler like him because they didn't have the game to beat him........DUH?

I think Willie was truly unique, a genuine gentleman, and most of all, a gifted pool player that the world may never see again. He stands alone and heads above everyone else. At elast that's how I see things.

Matt B.


Nice post.

One other factor to consider in all this is that Willie didn't lock himself up in a room and wail away trying to run balls for hours on end. He'd walk into a strange room, shoot two warm up racks on a foreign table and be ready to go. And then he'd either run 100 off his first shot, or, if he was in the middle of a run when he'd won the game, turn to the crowd and ask, "Would you like to see a 100 ball run?" After everyone voiced the predictable, "yes" he'd turn back to the table and complete the run. He did this every single time I saw him play and many, many others said they also saw Mosconi "call" a 100 ball run.

That Mosconi did that with such confidence and reliability is amazing, but my point actually is that it was not like he was playing under ideal circumstances. There was the unfamiliar table, whatever distractions emanated from the room and the crowd AND he did it in one inning. *That* is what is truly amazing.

Lou Figueroa
 
In his autobiography, Willie said the run of 526 took 2 hours and 10 minutes, for an average of about 4 balls per minute.


Also consider that Mosconi would be collecting and racking the balls for himself, so it was a pretty quick tempo.

Lou Figueroa
 
"No bar, no bowling alley, no pinball machines. Just pool. Nothin else."

And no juke box? Where are you located? I'll be there by midnight though Hell should bar the way.

Dave Nelson

Ha. That's actually a quote from The Hustler when they walk into Ames, but it is actually a pretty good descriptor of where I play, Executive Billiards in Indianapolis. Yes and there is no jukebox either.
 
Speaking of Willie's book can anybody recall the story about the potatoes....Thanks Ron

Willie's father was running a small pool hall in South Philadelphia, and the family lived on the floor above it. From Willie's Game, by Willie Mosconi & Stanley Cohen, p. 3:
"He was worried that I might cut the cloth or spill something on it and he would have to buy a new one. So I was forbidden to play, but that didn't stop me. In fact, I think it made playing all the more attractive. One way or another, I found my way to the table.

My father was a big baseball fan, and he often went to Shibe Park in the afternoon to watch the Phillies and the Athletics play. While he was out at the ball park I used to go downstairs, eat the candy bars and the pies from the concession stand, and play pool. At night, I would sometimes climb down the rainpipe from my room and into the pool hall through the rear window. Finally he caught me and started locking up the balls and the cue sticks when he was out or went to bed. But that didn't stop me either. I went to the pantry, picked out the roundest small potatoes I could find, got a broom handle from the kitchen and an apple crate to stand on, and improvised. My mother was too busy to keep track of such things. We were a growing family at the time. I already had a younger sister and a set of twin brothers, and another set of twins, also boys, was not far behind. So my mother had more to do than count the potatoes. I knocked them all over the table, but of course they left their mark. One time, the skins started peeling and the juice smeared the cloth so bad I couldn't clean it, and boy, did I catch hell. But I still hung around there whenever I could, and I was watching the players more and more intently."​
 
Speaking of Willie's book can anybody recall the story about the potatoes....Thanks Ron

Willie's father vehemently opposed Willie playing pool. So, he used to practice with potatoes and a broomstick handle on his kitchen table when his old man wasn't around.

But when his father realized what a prodigy Willie was and that he COULD MAKE MONEY playing pool he started advertising challenge matches even though Willie still had to stand on a box to be able to shoot!

(-:

EagleMan

OOOPS...Didn't notice At Large's prior post.
 
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