can passive income be made as a league operator?

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Local APA Operator is got good thing going. At end of each session, they award 🏆’s.

So I would guess as it is a large league they have good income.
You know how cheap trophies are? They are actually sold at up to 75-80% off list on a regular basis. They are plastic trinkets these days. 80 yrs ago, many were silver -50 years aggo, many were Brass, Today they are painted plastic.
 

Positively Ralf

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I bought a franchise of a NON APA league near me. I have three nights a week. It is something different for people to try that do not play APA in the area. It is really a side hustle for me. I make good enough money at my job with benefits so no need to leave that. I add money back into the payouts and use some of the money I make to bring in big names so people in my area can experience being around such players when they normally would not have that chance. Being a LO for a large area is like a job. More power to those that want to do it. But for me, I am cool with what I have now.

See this is exactly my situation. No reason for me to leave my job and this would be a side hustle for me. Thanks for the input.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
You know how cheap trophies are? They are actually sold at up to 75-80% off list on a regular basis. They are plastic trinkets these days. 80 yrs ago, many were silver -50 years aggo, many were Brass, Today they are painted plastic.

Trust me I known they are junk, like participation ribbons.

But if people like em great, I see no
Point but to collect dust.
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Here are a few links for information about how much an APA league operator can make and how much they cost to buy. I haven't read everything within both links nor can I confirm the information, just posting links ;)


 

Chili Palmer

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
You know how cheap trophies are? They are actually sold at up to 75-80% off list on a regular basis. They are plastic trinkets these days. 80 yrs ago, many were silver -50 years aggo, many were Brass, Today they are painted plastic.

I recently priced some rather large trophies (3 tier for first, 2 for 2nd, and 2 for 3rd but not as fancy - about 3ft tall for 1st, 2.5' for 2nd, and 2' for 3rd) and I think it was $100 for all three, might've been $125 shipped.

I already knew they were inexpensive just posting for reference ;)
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
Its always fun to watch people comment on how much LO's make, and crap on them, saying how it's legal theft, and money for nothing.

Dealing with crying pool players is a job. Its also a job no one wants. And you can never make them happy. And everything else they have to do to run their business is also a job. It ain't plug and play. If they can get it set up and organized well, it can go smoothly, like ANY OTHER BUSINESS. And just like any other business, when things aren't running smoothly, there's a lot of extra work to be put in, to make it all work.

Everybody is too concerned with other peoples money. Do you get sufficient value for what you are paying? That is the only question you need an answer for, and you are the one to provide that answer. Not how much the LO makes from his business.

Do I agree with everything my APA LO does, no. But they run a pretty damned good operation, whether I agree with everything or not.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Its always fun to watch people comment on how much LO's make, and crap on them, saying how it's legal theft, and money for nothing.

Dealing with crying pool players is a job. Its also a job no one wants. And you can never make them happy. And everything else they have to do to run their business is also a job. It ain't plug and play. If they can get it set up and organized well, it can go smoothly, like ANY OTHER BUSINESS. And just like any other business, when things aren't running smoothly, there's a lot of extra work to be put in, to make it all work.

Everybody is too concerned with other peoples money. Do you get sufficient value for what you are paying? That is the only question you need an answer for, and you are the one to provide that answer. Not how much the LO makes from his business.

Do I agree with everything my APA LO does, no. But they run a pretty damned good operation, whether I agree with everything or not.
Players don't relate to it being a business which is half the problem. Having been a LO, it is a business and it is work. When I played in the APA I was on the league's Board of Governors. There were 6 of us on the board and you wouldn't believe the issues we had to deal with on a monthly basis ranging from racial episodes to physical altercations to sexual harrassment. It's crazy. This was eye opening and one of the reasons I chose to operate a BCA league. Even that had its challenges.
 

APA Operator

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here are a few links for information about how much an APA league operator can make and how much they cost to buy. I haven't read everything within both links nor can I confirm the information, just posting links ;)


I can confirm that the first article was written by someone like Cocobolo Cowboy. To summarize, they greatly exaggerate the revenue and greatly underestimate the costs.

It is possible to make a living as an APA league operator. I wasn't able to exist solely on income from the league until I had over 200 teams, and that was just a meager living. The average franchise size is probably a little over half that.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I can confirm that the first article was written by someone like Cocobolo Cowboy. To summarize, they greatly exaggerate the revenue and greatly underestimate the costs.

It is possible to make a living as an APA league operator. I wasn't able to exist solely on income from the league until I had over 200 teams, and that was just a meager living. The average franchise size is probably a little over half that.
How much are your league fees and how much of those fees pass to APA?

200 teams x 5 players = 1,000 paying customers weekly. Say dues are $6 per player. That's $6K in revenue weekly. Let's assume you operate 26 out of 52 weeks. That's $156K in revenue before expenses. Let's say expenses are 50% of revenue (which I think is high), gross is close to $80K. that's not too shabby. Being as you had over 200 teams and most likely run longer than 26 weeks, I'd wager gross income is in the $100K range.
 

briankenobi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Obviously the more teams you have, the more money you can make. But also the more teams you have, the more work you have to do. Running a league can be fun. I think when it becomes a legit job, sometimes people may loose the love for it. And as many people have stated previously in this thread, dealing with pool players isn't always pleasant. You have to really love what you do to deal with with all the BS.
 

APA Operator

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How much are your league fees and how much of those fees pass to APA?

200 teams x 5 players = 1,000 paying customers weekly. Say dues are $6 per player. That's $6K in revenue weekly. Let's assume you operate 26 out of 52 weeks. That's $156K in revenue before expenses. Let's say expenses are 50% of revenue (which I think is high), gross is close to $80K. that's not too shabby. Being as you had over 200 teams and most likely run longer than 26 weeks, I'd wager gross income is in the $100K range.
First, half of what I charge ($30, it's public info, in my bylaws) goes into the Players Fund, which is used only for benefits given directly to players (trophies, travel assistance, prize money, etc.) and monitored closely by APA. So cut your number in half right away. Then do it again, because other expenses like royalties, credit card fees, gas, office expense, etc., come out of my half. Is the $40K that's left enough to live on, say for a family of 4? And that's with no employees, don't forget employees. Before you answer, self-employed health insurance is expensive and can cut that number in half right away. When you answer that question, ask yourself if $40K is worth it for 200 teams worth of work? Then ask yourself the only question that should matter to anyone not considering a franchise - is the entertainment worth the $6 (maybe $8 with table fees) you spend on league night? If it's not, don't play. It's really that simple.
 

trob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why do pool players get so angry over someone making money off a league or pool in general. lol matchroom isn’t dumping into pool without expecting to make a profit. These people had to pay for their franchise. sUte they expect to make money.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Why do pool players get so angry over someone making money off a league or pool in general. lol matchroom isn’t dumping into pool without expecting to make a profit. These people had to pay for their franchise. sUte they expect to make money.
I also find that the biggest complainers (locally to me I mean) are those who stand near zero chance of cashing out by the end of the season anyway...lol. Those who either win or cash out on some level typically don't yip at all.

Pool players are weird.
 

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I also find that the biggest complainers (locally to me I mean) are those who stand near zero chance of cashing out by the end of the season anyway...lol. Those who either win or cash out on some level typically don't yip at all.

Pool players are weird.
Its all about ....me . only players themselves should make money. league owners...tournament directors....pool hall owners dig into the pot that belongs to just the players. The. above should all provide their services for free so the money can go directly to the players.

They also idolize hustlers and con men ....but detest sandbaggers ? I personaly do not see any difference between the 3.
 

David in FL

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
First, half of what I charge ($30, it's public info, in my bylaws) goes into the Players Fund, which is used only for benefits given directly to players (trophies, travel assistance, prize money, etc.) and monitored closely by APA. So cut your number in half right away. Then do it again, because other expenses like royalties, credit card fees, gas, office expense, etc., come out of my half. Is the $40K that's left enough to live on, say for a family of 4? And that's with no employees, don't forget employees. Before you answer, self-employed health insurance is expensive and can cut that number in half right away. When you answer that question, ask yourself if $40K is worth it for 200 teams worth of work? Then ask yourself the only question that should matter to anyone not considering a franchise - is the entertainment worth the $6 (maybe $8 with table fees) you spend on league night? If it's not, don't play. It's really that simple.
One of the fastest ways to come to dislike a hobby/recreation that you really enjoy is to try to turn it into a job…
 
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