Can the speed of the cloth help develope new skills?

[Bigkahuna]

I am going to be recovering my home table soon with new rails. I think I have convinced myself to go with a faster cloth but because there are no shortage of opinions here I thought I would do a post here.

My table now has Simonis 860 and I have been very happy with it for the nine years I have had it. Locally a couple of the pool rooms I play out of have gone to the Championship Tour Edition cloth. The difference in speed is substantial. I can't believe anyone woudn't notice the difference especially playing nine ball.

Both of these places the table gets a lot of use and the tour edition holds up well but seems to get faster. As the threads wear down the cloth starts to look waxy and man these things get fast. Like in nine ball I am constantly over running my position zones, the cue ball just won't stop. I feel like I can't really play pool because I can't hit the cue ball hard enough to put action on it. So I am often adjusting to more center ball hit and easily putting the cue ball. I know I should have the same equipment at home as I play on in competition. However half the places use a woolen cloth or 860 and the other half are using this tour edition.

Here is my question: If I were to put the championship or 760 on my table would I learn new skills besides adjusting to the speed? Am I better off adjusting up to faster speed or down to slower speed from what I have at home?

 

[Maniac]

Me personally, I had rather have the fast cloth on the home table and adjust to a slower cloth whenever I am faced with having to do so. My home table has the Brunswick Centennial cloth on it. It is pretty darn fast. My APA league is an in-house league with Valley barboxes with slow, nappy cloth. I go up about 45 minutes before league matches start to get a few games under my belt. A game or two is usually all it takes for me to get used to a slower rolling table. On the other hand, when I go over to Volcano's to play in tournaments, their cloth is very much like my home cloth so I'm pretty much good to go there. I had rather let my stroke out a little bit more on an unfamiliar table than to try and hold it back. Just my $.02.

Maniac

 

[BRKNRUN]

Slow cloth will develop your stroke - English / Draw / Follow

Fast cloth will develop your stop/stun shot abilities.

Which one to you need to develop more?

 

[Maniac]

Fast cloth will develop your stop/stun shot abilities.

A lot of truth in this statement!!!

Maniac

 

[MTfish]

Have to say I agree with Maniac. It is easier for me to go from fast to slow than slow to fast. I never thought about fast cloth helping my stun abilities but it makes sense. I have a much harder time controlling stun shots on fast cloth.

 

[Bigkahuna]

Finesse Stroke

Thank you for the replies. I am thinking it may help me to fine tune or develope a little finesse in my stroke. But perhaps 860 is the right cloth for games where moving the cue ball around the table is important?

 

[Derek]

Either way you have it, definitely equip the table with a good cloth and I would say 860 at a minimum. I tried Championship Tour Edition for about a year and hated it. I might as well have been playing on the slate. A friend of mine has 760 on his table and I don't notice too much of a performance effect switching over from 860. A little over-control in the beginning, but doesn't take too long to adjust to.

 

[Derek]

Thank you for the replies. I am thinking it may help me to fine tune or develope a little finesse in my stroke. But perhaps 860 is the right cloth for games where moving the cue ball around the table is important?

My opinion is you might as well go with what the pros shoot on. You are more likely to find 860 on tables in a good tournament than something like 760 or Tour Edition or shag carpeting. Simonis has been in the game long enough without compromising their reputation and it seems to be the preferred cloth by serious players unless another cloth company is helping sponsor a tournament. Not too often that you don't see Simonis 860 tied into a big tournament as a brand name.

 

[Bigkahuna]

Speed

My opinion is you might as well go with what the pros shoot on. You are more likely to find 860 on tables in a good tournament than something like 760 or Tour Edition or shag carpeting. Simonis has been in the game long enough without compromising their reputation and it seems to be the preferred cloth by serious players unless another cloth company is helping sponsor a tournament. Not too often that you don't see Simonis 860 tied into a big tournament as a brand name.

So, you have the same impression that the 3030 is much too fast? I have heard the 3030 and 760 were about the same as speed goes, but, you are saying the 3030 is way faster?

 

[Tokyo-dave]

In my own personal experience, if I've hung at a place with faster tables for a good period of time, I tend to lose my stroke. By that I mean I tend to have a hard time getting the action that I want from the CB (especially draw). Yes, when going from a slow cloth to a quicker cloth, I find myself over running my shots, often getting on the wrong side of a ball, and having to go up and down the table on thin cuts 'cause I can't hold the CB inside the center court. But for me, after having been able to draw with ease (and a not so great stroke) on a really quick cloth, moving to a heavier nap or slower cloth can be really embarrasing with you go to draw the rock, juice that stroke up, hit it and watch the CB sit there like a duck can really break your heart!!
I've recently found a place to call home, but my greatest fear is how fast the tables play there. Everytime I manage to pull of a table and a half draw, I have to remind myself that "that stroke on a 'real' table wouldn't have given me 6 inches of draw." So I really have to try to keep myself aware of weather or not I'm actually hitting them good, or is the cloth making it just that much more easier for me.
dave

 

[Derek]

So, you have the same impression that the 3030 is much too fast? I have heard the 3030 and 760 were about the same as speed goes, but, you are saying the 3030 is way faster?

That was my impression. Shooting on my friend's 760 feels a lot better than the 3030 cloth. I thought the 3030 was too unrealistic for what I would be seeing in our rooms, parlors, and bars. Maybe the 3030 would be a good choice for three cushion or snooker.

 

[SJDinPHX]

Bottem line!

That was my impression. Shooting on my friend's 760 feels a lot better than the 3030 cloth. I thought the 3030 was too unrealistic for what I would be seeing in our rooms, parlors, and bars. Maybe the 3030 would be a good choice for three cushion or snooker.

The more experienced player will adjust quicker to different cloth speeds.
Nothing will ever change that.In the not too distant past, if you could not
adjust, you could not win! It's all relative!

 

[Bigkahuna]

Adjusting to speed

The more experienced player will adjust quicker to different cloth speeds.
Nothing will ever change that.In the not too distant past, if you could not
adjust, you could not win! It's all relative!

I am experienced and play as a seven in the APA, (of course that doesn't amount to a whole hill of beans). I can usually adjust from the bar box to the 9 footers pretty well but that 3030 championship cloth is really like playing on the slate. I was considering using that cloth as a means of developing some new skills but perhaps the cost of having to adjust too much. I am now thinking that the 3030 is really an unrealistic cloth to play on. I will just have to suffer when I play on these table in competiton and deal with the fact that some of my competiton will play better than I on that home table. I would still like to have something faster than the 860 I have now.

 

[Bigkahuna]

Shot Zones

In my own personal experience, if I've hung at a place with faster tables for a good period of time, I tend to lose my stroke. By that I mean I tend to have a hard time getting the action that I want from the CB (especially draw). Yes, when going from a slow cloth to a quicker cloth, I find myself over running my shots, often getting on the wrong side of a ball, and having to go up and down the table on thin cuts 'cause I can't hold the CB inside the center court. But for me, after having been able to draw with ease (and a not so great stroke) on a really quick cloth, moving to a heavier nap or slower cloth can be really embarrasing with you go to draw the rock, juice that stroke up, hit it and watch the CB sit there like a duck can really break your heart!!
I've recently found a place to call home, but my greatest fear is how fast the tables play there. Everytime I manage to pull of a table and a half draw, I have to remind myself that "that stroke on a 'real' table wouldn't have given me 6 inches of draw." So I really have to try to keep myself aware of weather or not I'm actually hitting them good, or is the cloth making it just that much more easier for me.
dave

I have always been a huge proponent of coming into the zone of position at an angle that is somewhat paralell to the line I need to be on rather than perpendicular allowing for greater cue ball travel. So it might seem that on faster cloth I would be doing a better job of that rather than depending on the cloth to stop the ball on shots where I am floating the ball a short distance. What do you guys think?

 

[Aaron_S]

I have a much easier time adjusting from slower cloth to faster cloth rather than vice versa. Slower cloth forces me to swing harder while maintaining accuracy, and to apply spin more effectively because more spin is required to get the cueball to move the same distance. Simply stated, I find it much easier to shoot softly than to shoot hard because the accuracy of my stroke, like most peoples, goes up as I shoot softer. I would not, therefore, want to practice on a table that never required me to use a firm, yet accurate stroke, as I would expect the strength and accuracy of my stroke to slowly diminish over time.

As far as cloth is concerned, I haven't played on them all, but I have played on 760 and 860 as well as a few others, and I personally prefer 860 because it is so widely used and it seems to be a nice in-between cloth with regard to speed and playability. Granted, brand new 860 plays pretty easy because it's so slick that even a player with no stroke can draw the ball a table-length, and the pockets play a bit larger as well. As it starts to wear, though, the pockets get a little tighter and you find that you have to actually put somewhat of a stroke the ball to get the spin you want. I think it's a great all-around cloth, and it's the only cloth I will consider for my home table. Also, the speed of 860 can vary quite a bit depending on how tightly it is stretched.

Now, I could certainly see where playing on fast cloth would help a player develop certain other skills as well. I remember a time when I played on 760 a lot, and eventually found myself using a lot less draw because the rails took side spin so well that I became very adept at moving the cueball around with a combination of follow and side spin. I would personally rank that type of skill secondary to the ones you will develop on slower cloth, though. After all, it's hard to find anything more important than developing a strong, accurate stroke. When you can muscle up on a shot on slow cloth and still pocket the ob and strike the cueball accurately enough to generate the desired spin, you will have developed a stroke that will serve you well on any equipment.

As always, JMHO,

Aaron

 

[Bigkahuna]

Thank you

I have a much easier time adjusting from slower cloth to faster cloth rather than vice versa. Slower cloth forces me to swing harder while maintaining accuracy, and to apply spin more effectively because more spin is required to get the cueball to move the same distance. Simply stated, I find it much easier to shoot softly than to shoot hard because the accuracy of my stroke, like most peoples, goes up as I shoot softer. I would not, therefore, want to practice on a table that never required me to use a firm, yet accurate stroke, as I would expect the strength and accuracy of my stroke to slowly diminish over time.

As far as cloth is concerned, I haven't played on them all, but I have played on 760 and 860 as well as a few others, and I personally prefer 860 because it is so widely used and it seems to be a nice in-between cloth with regard to speed and playability. Granted, brand new 860 plays pretty easy because it's so slick that even a player with no stroke can draw the ball a table-length, and the pockets play a bit larger as well. As it starts to wear, though, the pockets get a little tighter and you find that you have to actually put somewhat of a stroke the ball to get the spin you want. I think it's a great all-around cloth, and it's the only cloth I will consider for my home table. Also, the speed of 860 can vary quite a bit depending on how tightly it is stretched.

Now, I could certainly see where playing on fast cloth would help a player develop certain other skills as well. I remember a time when I played on 760 a lot, and eventually found myself using a lot less draw because the rails took side spin so well that I became very adept at moving the cueball around with a combination of follow and side spin. I would personally rank that type of skill secondary to the ones you will develop on slower cloth, though. After all, it's hard to find anything more important than developing a strong, accurate stroke. When you can muscle up on a shot on slow cloth and still pocket the ob and strike the cueball accurately enough to generate the desired spin, you will have developed a stroke that will serve you well on any equipment.

As always, JMHO,

Aaron

Aaron Thank you for the response and it was interesting to hear your perspective on the accurate stroke.. I think I have a good one now. I am able to place an object ball in the middle of the table with the cue ball a foot from the corner pocket then shoot a straight in shot and scratch the cue in the same pocket with follow or back at me with draw. So, maybe the skills I am trying to aquire you already have. I always seem to adjust better to slower cloth than faster cloth. Interesting......