Can You Be a Nice Pool Player?

[GG11]

I really believe you can be a nice player and win big too. I've heard many people say otherwise but I think you can be driven and determined to win something without being a jerk about it. I have to hope it's true as those are the type of people that I think will help promote our sport in the positive light it needs to move forward into mainstream America. Though I've definitely run into the people who can't fathom the concept of good sportsmanship! I hate playing those kind of people. Just shut up and let's play pool already. Stop whining, stop sharking, stop the crap. ugh.

Ralf Souquet is a great example of a good guy and a big time winner.

 

[uwate]

I was in a tournament match recently and my opponent tells me hey its 3-2 not 2-2 and I just didnt mark up my score. I honestly dont remember the 3 games and I tell him that. He goes to rack the balls and then stops and tells me again no its 3-2 and describes the games he won. I'm sitting there not remembering one of the games he is telling me and I tell him that. He breaks the balls and I can see its bothering him. I win the next game and after a few games more i can tell he is pissed off completely and its affecting his game. The score gets to 5-3 and I begin thinking to myself, why would he get so pissed unless he really believes he did have that game? I begin to doubt my own memory but what can I do at that point? He has already taken himself out of the match mentally and i was pretty sure nothing I said at that point would make anything better, so I said nothing.

Later on this player tells a bunch of people i cheated him and im an assh*le. This is a great player too. This happened recently and has been bothering me alot lately when i think about it. The player is not a local south florida guy or I would have already have tried to talk to him about it.

Disagreements in pool often happen when one player PERCEIVES the other is trying to fek him over, when the REALITY is thats not the case.

Then again, alot of times people are just complete jerks. Such is life...

 

[BigDogatLarge]

If you act like them, you become them. Be true to your heart and your game. After all, it isn't the opponent, it is the table you are both playing. He who regulates, wins. Play for the love of the game and the end will justify the means.

 

[ScottW]

I was in a tournament match recently and my opponent tells me hey its 3-2 not 2-2 and I just didnt mark up my score.

So that sounds like he's telling you you didn't mark one of your OWN wins, yet the rest of your note sounds like this guy is saying one of HIS wins didn't get marked...?

 

[Tom In Cincy]

Why would you be bothered at all if you didn't have some guilt associated with this incident?
Why would it matter if the opponent is local or not?

This happened recently and has been bothering me alot lately when i think about it. The player is not a local south florida guy or I would have already have tried to talk to him about it.

 

[BRKNRUN]

For the record....

In my short 15 year pool history in Arizona (and western states) have run into MANY more "nice" pool players than A-holes.

Yes there are a few A-hole bad sport pool players in Arizona and neighboring states.... but I would not go so far as to say there are "a lot" (as one post may lead you to believe)

I just don't want to see a "few" get percieved as "many"

Thanks and have a great day...

 

[steev]

That statement by Jay needs to be repeated. Print it, put it on your fridge and read it every few days.

Though some consider this Kitch, I find it beautiful,

Desiderata
by
Max Ermin


Go placidly amid the noise & haste,
& remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly & clearly; and listen to others, even the dull & ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud & aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain & bitter; for always there will be greater & lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity & disenchantment it is perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue & loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees & the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors & aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery & broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy.

omfg you just turned on memory lane. my fraternity made every pledge memorize this poem. i completely forgot about it til just now. i guess when i was 18 i didn't really read what i was memorizing, that's pretty good

-s

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

For the record....

In my short 15 year pool history in Arizona (and western states) have run into MANY more "nice" pool players than A-holes.

Yes there are a few A-hole bad sport pool players in Arizona and neighboring states.... but I would not go so far as to say there are "a lot" (as one post may lead you to believe)

I just don't want to see a "few" get percieved as "many"

Thanks and have a great day...

Well you point is a good one, and I think we remember the JERKO People more than those who act like Normal folks.

I remember this guy I played once on a Sunday at Kolby's 8 N Under, he was just terrible. They called him SHORTS because of his WEIRD SHORTS, he was a SHARK, not a NICE GUY, and would pull ever NASTY TRICK to WIN.

 

[BVal]

For the record....

In my short 15 year pool history in Arizona (and western states) have run into MANY more "nice" pool players than A-holes.

Yes there are a few A-hole bad sport pool players in Arizona and neighboring states.... but I would not go so far as to say there are "a lot" (as one post may lead you to believe)

I just don't want to see a "few" get percieved as "many"

Thanks and have a great day...

I have met a few a-holes around. By far I have met more nice players than a-holes.

BVal

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

I really believe you can be a nice player and win big too. I've heard many people say otherwise but I think you can be driven and determined to win something without being a jerk about it.

I think the OP also wanted (in part) to solicit feedback on, and I am interested in hearing others:

Does being a jerk give someone an advantage over playing a nice guy?

I recall a recent AZB thread about sharking, and I liken some sharking to being a jerk. One poster {sic} said: "get used to it, deal with it, or tuck your tail between your legs and go home a loser. It happens and if you're not mentally strong enough to deal with it, you will never be as good as you otherwise could be." I took a lot from that viewpoint and am working hard on mental discipline. "Block it out (the bad), lock it in (my positive focus)" is my mantra. In time I hope this mental process comes naturally, so I don't have to say it to myself 5 times a rack! But, this repetitive discipline, IS working for me.

IMO there are a-holes out there that have refined the art of un-nerving their opponent, and it can be effective. And it just makes me wanna friggin beat him that much more... :angry: with the cue tip and the butt. I try to turn his negative energy into my positive energy/motivation, but it's easier said than done. My key word is DISCIPLINE.

All that being said, being a jerk definitely CAN create an advantage over some players, sometimes...

 

[BillyKoda]

Try being the TD at some of these local tourneys, out of the 40 or so regular players I have 5 24/7 a-holes and maybe another 5 part time a-holes to deal with. Everyone can get to that point during the year but I have a few that just aren't smart enough to be nice. These people know they only have a few chances with me before they receive the same treatment as they dish out. Most of our players are great people but a handful can ruin a fun local tourney if nothing is done about it.

 

[JoeW]

Take a look at Jack Nicklas he is a good example of the good man who was great at what he did. Jim Rempe too for that matter. Observe Allen Hopkins or Nick Varner. All have great skills and are good people.

I have been fortunate in life to meet several highly respected people in the sciences including Nobel Prize winners and similar types. I have found, with very few exceptons, that exceptional people are modest, helpful, and often do not think of themselves as the experts in their respective fields. They may not suffer fools lightly but they are nearly always gracious and tactful.

With true greatness comes modesty and humility -- Effren's "I'm lucky" is an excellent example. One Noble laurate began his presentations with, "Let me tell you a story ..."

When you realize that truly great people in whatever endeavor are great in many ways then you pity the jerks and wonder what their problem happens to be. When I meet the jerk on the pool table I usually feel sorry for the wasted talent. Think how much better they could be if their life were under control.

I do not doubt that others do not see it this way. The jerk doesn't affect my game, I affect my game when I let him into my head because of my own needs.

 

[Steve Ellis]

I am just curious about what peoples thoughts are on this.I am a pretty nice guy,good sportsmanship and whatnot.Since I moved to AZ about 10 months ago I have noticed alot of poor sportsmanship, 2 times I had guys not even shake my hand after they lost.I just dont get it,tonight I took 2nd in a tourney and the person I played had poor sportsmanship,there was definately gamesmanship considering I was playing good safes and then told I was lucky and pulling them out of my ass,what gives?I told my friend that I think when we go out to tourneys or are gambling I just have to be downright mean and nasty with people,torment and torture them so I just dont beat them on the table but off the table.I think alot of people feel weak at times with their game or just want any edge they can get,I just want to have fun and play,win or lose shake hands and give compliments when they are deserved.

My friend says he doesnt think I could be mean,that I will want to but when I get out there I will stay quiet and shake hands because its my nature to be decent.I told him if I brought my gamesmanship out and got in my opponents head it would bring me up a ball and give it time and we will be like alot of players I have met out here.You figured in the NY area there would be more poor sports and little psyhological tactics but this place tops it by far.What are your opinions on this?,do you do these things or are you Mr. Nice Guy when you play and a gentleman with respect for the game and your opponent?

Personally I try to be a nice guy and respectful in all endeavors. Unfortunately, sometimes my emotions interfer with that. I feel however that everbody should strive to be civil and a good sportsman. You should maintain your high standards for yourself and not worry about the jerks out there, it is their bad karma not yours.

 

[BRKNRUN]

I think the OP also wanted (in part) to solicit feedback on, and I am interested in hearing others:

Does being a jerk give someone an advantage over playing a nice guy?

Here is my take on that question...and possibly part of the reason some people get the "jerk" label.

It kind of ties into the "killer instinct" method...When you go into a tournament or match you need to go in with the attitude of "I am better than you today...right here, right now"....(even if you are playing Efren and common knowledge is that you are going to get drilled)

Most all of the top players will "present" themselves as "I am better than you and I am "supposed" to win against you"...(even if they are the severe underdog)

There is a intimidation factor...I had this type of discussion with a top player a couple years ago....His words were to the effect of. When you go to a tournament you have to go into the room (not just the one match..."the entire room") with almost a chip on your shoulder...He said "You don't want to be a jerk about it, but you have to expose your confidence to the entire room. That confidence will not only improve your game, but it will also intimidate many of your opponents"

He went on to say..."If you don't display confidence....That gives your opponent confidence that he can/will beat you"

In Golf, Tiger is a "prime" example of using confidence "having a chip on his shoulder" as an added edge...(I think that edge has helped him squeak out a few tournaments that he othwise may have lost)

The whole problem with this above is that it is a very fine line between displaying confidence over your opponent and being percieved as a jerk or A-hole.....:wink:

 

[supergreenman]

I think the OP also wanted (in part) to solicit feedback on, and I am interested in hearing others:

Does being a jerk give someone an advantage over playing a nice guy?

I recall a recent AZB thread about sharking, and I liken some sharking to being a jerk. One poster {sic} said: "get used to it, deal with it, or tuck your tail between your legs and go home a loser. It happens and if you're not mentally strong enough to deal with it, you will never be as good as you otherwise could be." I took a lot from that viewpoint and am working hard on mental discipline. "Block it out (the bad), lock it in (my positive focus)" is my mantra. In time I hope this mental process comes naturally, so I don't have to say it to myself 5 times a rack! But, this repetitive discipline, IS working for me.

IMO there are a-holes out there that have refined the art of un-nerving their opponent, and it can be effective. And it just makes me wanna friggin beat him that much more... :angry: with the cue tip and the butt. I try to turn his negative energy into my positive energy/motivation, but it's easier said than done. My key word is DISCIPLINE.

All that being said, being a jerk definitely CAN create an advantage over some players, sometimes...

I don't believe you have to be an a-hole to be a good player. Many of the best players I can think of can be: All business, intense, competitive, and focused yet when the last ball drops they're perfect gentlemen and true sportsmen.

Steve Mizerak and Efren come to mind.

 

[JoeW]

I agree with Brknrun, the trick is to be self confident without being a jerk. Some surgeons learn how to do this, some don't. The trick is difficult to learn and to manage.

I have thought for many years that posture and non-verbal communication (clothes, voice inflecton, use of hands, etc) set the tone while verbalizations set the pace. To be confident but not condescending is not difficult if one is truly modest and that is what sets the great people off from the rest of us.

 

[uwate]

So that sounds like he's telling you you didn't mark one of your OWN wins, yet the rest of your note sounds like this guy is saying one of HIS wins didn't get marked...?

Sorry i wrote that confusing. he was saying that he didnt mark up one of his games.

Why would you be bothered at all if you didn't have some guilt associated with this incident?
Why would it matter if the opponent is local or not?

I am bothered by it because I no longer am certain I was in the right. My thinking on this is that 1) the player when I asked around had a really good reputation for being honest...so why would he make that up? 2) He was really mad during our match and at first I didnt think much about it but later as the set wore on and it appeared he had lost interest in playing (very unusual) I began to suspect that it was my memory and not his that was at fault. The tournament was an out of town tournament and if he was a local in South Florida I would just approach him and talk to him about it. I had no intent to fek him over and if I was in the wrong, I am sorry is what I would say. His perception was that I did something intentional, but that wasnt the case.

 

[cuenut]

Sorry i wrote that confusing. he was saying that he didnt mark up one of his games.



I am bothered by it because I no longer am certain I was in the right. My thinking on this is that 1) the player when I asked around had a really good reputation for being honest...so why would he make that up? 2) He was really mad during our match and at first I didnt think much about it but later as the set wore on and it appeared he had lost interest in playing (very unusual) I began to suspect that it was my memory and not his that was at fault. The tournament was an out of town tournament and if he was a local in South Florida I would just approach him and talk to him about it. I had no intent to fek him over and if I was in the wrong, I am sorry is what I would say. His perception was that I did something intentional, but that wasnt the case.

Weren't there any bystanders who watched the entirety of your match who would have vouched one way or the other? Would you have trusted someone else if that were the case? I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, but if you run across the guy again, I would take the opportunity to state what you have posted here. He may be sore, it will be his choice, not yours.

 

[GG11]

maybe I'm way out in left field on this one but does anyone else really enjoy watching the new American Gladiators??? (Personally I miss the old one, but the new one has got it's perks!)

Anywho, what I admire when I watch the show is that before a battle, challenge, etc. the opponent and the Gladiator talk their smack to one another and blah blah, and then they do the challenge and whether the contestant got walloped by the Gladiator, or actually smoked the big dude (or dudettes) each Gladiator always gives respect and a handshake or a hug or something afterwards.

It's like the desire for good competition is a good enough driving force that being the "jerk" isn't necessary. Personally I'd rather people speak more than their cues and less with their mouths!

 

[snookerish]

maybe I'm way out in left field on this one but does anyone else really enjoy watching the new American Gladiators??? (Personally I miss the old one, but the new one has got it's perks!)

Anywho, what I admire when I watch the show is that before a battle, challenge, etc. the opponent and the Gladiator talk their smack to one another and blah blah, and then they do the challenge and whether the contestant got walloped by the Gladiator, or actually smoked the big dude (or dudettes) each Gladiator always gives respect and a handshake or a hug or something afterwards.

It's like the desire for good competition is a good enough driving force that being the "jerk" isn't necessary. Personally I'd rather people speak more than their cues and less with their mouths!

True, it would be ideal to leave the smack talking for before the match, and always acknowledge the winner afterwards...but that is in an ideal world!
I will always hold my hand up if i get lucky, i'll always play the match with a smile on my face regardless of my opponent's antics. I'll always offer to shake their hand too; if they refuse, so be it. i'll take a sip of my ice cold beer. because it isn't worth thinking about, really, because then you'll get uptight about it. when the match is in progress and it is my shot, all i ask myself is how to put the ball in the hole, and get decent shape on the next one.
...the exception to my own rule - last season i played a guy (one skill level above me) who talked during every shot a played, asked the league operator to watch some ridiculously shouldn't-be-watched hits, told his friend how lucky i was getting when they came over to watch..yadda yadda yadda. I was a little tipsy from the beer, so when it went to hill-hill i three fouled him, just to pi55 him off.
he was not impressed, and frankly, i couldn't care less.
i used to think of him as "a good player and probably a nice guy"
now i dont.