Can you get the object ball to spin and to "grab" the pocket and help it drop?

[sausage]

If hit accurately, the shot goes without sidespin on any table I'm familiar with. If hit with sidespin it's less accurate.

The technique disqualifies itself: it's only needed when you shouldn't use it.

if you haven't noticed how english effects an object ball as it hits the pocket face, you haven't been paying attention.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Attempting to "prove" anything with relatively simple math or a more elaborate computer model would not likely satisfy anyone (including me) for a variety of reasons.

I don't think we have to resort to that.

Jim:
Do we agree that contacting the facing (jaw, side) of a pocket, whether corner or side-pocket, and particulaly at higher speeds, doesn't guarantee that a ball will drop?

For argument's sake, let's say that's true for an extremely shallow-angle, higher-speed shot into a side pocket. Do you think adding sidespin to such a shot, factoring in the decline in aiming accuracy, would increase your percentage enough to justify shooting it?

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

if you haven't noticed how english effects an object ball as it hits the pocket face, you haven't been paying attention.

If you think I haven't noticed that, you haven't been paying attention.

pj
chgo

 

[lfigueroa]

I've heard someone say certain spin will help an object ball "grab the pocket" and help it drop in - or "widen the pocket" if you will.

As an example, take the following shot. If the 9 ball goes into the right side of the side pocket and has clockwise spin on it, won't that help it grab the pocket and drop? So to give it clockwise spin it needs to be hit by the cue ball with counter clockwise --> ie. inside english.

Is this a helpful skill to have in your arsenal?

CueTable Help

"Get-in english" does exist and can be a useful tool to have in your arsenal.

The thing is: if you are playing on a properly set up table (PJ), those that say, "Just hit the pocket," or "It compromises the accuracy of the shot," or just that it's "unnecessary," are absolutely right.

But life ain't perfect and there many, many, many tables out there that are not setup right, with bad pocket facings and wrong angles. *On that type of equipment* you'd better have the tool we're discussing -- whatever you want to call it -- if you want to shoot shots down the rails at speed and would enjoy watching them drop

Lou Figueroa

 

[Jal]

....For argument's sake, let's say that's true for an extremely shallow-angle, higher-speed shot into a side pocket. Do you think adding sidespin to such a shot, factoring in the decline in aiming accuracy, would increase your percentage enough to justify shooting it?

Patrick, your point is well taken, and generally speaking, the answer is no. Some exceptions might be:

- The OB is frozen to another ball and the carom angle will force it uncomfortably close to the far point of a pocket. The fact that they're frozen, however, allows you to take considerable liberties with the contact point, as long as you do carom it off the other ball.

- The OB is close to a pocket, but an interfering ball makes for a similar situation. Here, a relatively small error in the impact/throw direction can be more than compensated by imparted spin.

- Come hell or high water, you need to make the shot and prior experience has taught you that the ball will almost certainly hang.

It's possible that all can be made at pocket speed without resorting to spin adjustments, but that may not always be the best option. I am surprised at some of the results you've been indicating. The ones that I play on (Gold Crowns - larger pockets) don't seem to have too much compunction about rejecting shots. Facing angles and cleanliness, or lack of, may have something to do with it (apart from the shooter). On one of the Accu-Stats tapes, for instance, Johnny Archer sinks a ball in a 4.5" corner pocket that I'm virtually certain the ones in my room would sneer at.

Jim

 

[woody_968]

There's no way a ball hit accurately down the rail, even with the wrong sidespin, won't drop into any pocket I'm familiar with.

CueTable Help

chgo

There are two (well, one now, one has been taken down) tables in my town that will spit these balls out. This is one of the few instances that I think adding spin may be useful. If I ever get in there again Ill mess with around with it.

Woody

 

[sausage]

Rack 'em, Sausage.

hey jam: sometimes i wonder how many players here know from where i got my name.

 

[ribdoner]

Forgive me if i'm being redundant, but, i normally don't read lenghty threads prior to posting an opinion or postion.

OB close/frozen to a rail will "spin" into a pocket if CB is struck with IE.

 

[enzo]

i wont even quote completely, but "factoring in the decline in aiming accuracy"

if you want to put the maximum amount of english on an ob for any reason, the way you do this is come across it with a dead center (sliding) cueball. where is this decline in aiming accuracy you speak of with center ball??

 

[sausage]

Forgive me if i'm being redundant, but, i normally don't read lenghty threads prior to posting an opinion or postion.

OB close/frozen to a rail will "spin" into a pocket if CB is struck with IE.

yes, and if you hit with OE, the object ball can easily be jawed even if the shot is "on". this generally only happens if the OB is hit with a soft stroke which transfers more english to the OB and more "grab" on the pocket face.

 

[Josh Palmer]

Sorry PJ.. I've played on gaff tables before, and spinning the ball in is very useful. Just by the virtue of the cut, if hit with a dead cue ball, the object ball has an easier time going in. The best players do this without thinking much about it..