Carbide cutter bits unusual problem

Vahmurka

Vahmurka

...and I get all da rolls
Silver Member
I bought a toolpost and some carbide cutter inserts for my fellow. Now he has tried two corners of the cutter already (they have three) and said they become dull very fast. That's very weird for me, since I've heard they are supposed to last much longer than ordinary metal cutters, like almost forever. And he managed to waste a cutter in no more than two weeks. After he first reported this, I instructed him to avoid treating the cutter with metal objects (which he is not supposed to do anyway). And suggested he tries a new one. But now the same thing happened.
The reason for me to bother a little about this is that we share the lathe I'm talking about, and I have seen no problem with carbide cutters, but I do not have full control over the tool and can't tell what happens when I'm away.

If we suppose the cutter is used for processing cue shafts and ferrules only, what could be the reason for it getting dull THAT fast? Maybe the angle of the set-up is wrong? Would be thankful for a picture of proper install then.
 
Vahmurka said:
I bought a toolpost and some carbide cutter inserts for my fellow. Now he has tried two corners of the cutter already (they have three) and said they become dull very fast. That's very weird for me, since I've heard they are supposed to last much longer than ordinary metal cutters, like almost forever. And he managed to waste a cutter in no more than two weeks. After he first reported this, I instructed him to avoid treating the cutter with metal objects (which he is not supposed to do anyway). And suggested he tries a new one. But now the same thing happened.
The reason for me to bother a little about this is that we share the lathe I'm talking about, and I have seen no problem with carbide cutters, but I do not have full control over the tool and can't tell what happens when I'm away.

If we suppose the cutter is used for processing cue shafts and ferrules only, what could be the reason for it getting dull THAT fast? Maybe the angle of the set-up is wrong? Would be thankful for a picture of proper install then.
Click to expand...

Which inserts did you get? You can't smoke an entire cutter that fast unless you are cutting stainless at improper speeds....
 
Yeah I would guess the carbide tips are breaking off or chipping, as opposed to getting dull. Carbide is hard, but brittle. They chip easily, especially when you do as Kim said, running the lathe backwards. or if you move the tool into material when the lathe isn't running.
 
Cutting tool might not be on center, tool holder might be loose, RPM's might be too slow. Might be the wrong insert for the job. Insert might be a low grade cheapy from China.
 
Vahmurka said:
If we suppose the cutter is used for processing cue shafts and ferrules only, what could be the reason for it getting dull THAT fast? Maybe the angle of the set-up is wrong? Would be thankful for a picture of proper install then.
Click to expand...

If cutting wood, that shouldn't happen. I use some very cheap...Harbor freight....cutters doing ferrule and tip work and then some metal work often and don't have that issue. It sounds like the other person isn't doing something right and/or being truthful about what they are doing. I advise hanging out with him while he is doing stuff on the lathe and then you may see something that would explain the problem.
JMO,
Dave
 
kross said:
Yeah I would guess the carbide tips are breaking off or chipping, as opposed to getting dull. Carbide is hard, but brittle. They chip easily, especially when you do as Kim said, running the lathe backwards. or if you move the tool into material when the lathe isn't running.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Hard but brittle. Make sure you are running fast enough and there is no chatter. Make sure inserts are seated properly and secure. Any vibration could damage them.
 
guys thanks for your opinions, I will make a picture and post it, looking for your feedback in regard with proper angle of the cutter. I can't figure any other reason for the problem (apart from my pal being unaccurate with CA and spilling it on the cutter...)
 
Dave38 said:
If cutting wood, that shouldn't happen. I use some very cheap...Harbor freight....cutters doing ferrule and tip work and then some metal work often and don't have that issue. It sounds like the other person isn't doing something right and/or being truthful about what they are doing. I advise hanging out with him while he is doing stuff on the lathe and then you may see something that would explain the problem.
JMO,
Dave
Click to expand...

I use the cheap HF indexed cutters and they work just fine. I turn them all about 3 or 4 months. After all the points have been used, I toss em and buy a new set.

Kim
 
3-4 months? I wish the indexable inserts I'm talking about here worked that long. Actually, that's what they are intended to last.
Here are the pictures of current set-up. Is the angle right? If not, could you draw a line of proper angle? I used a metal rod for the reference only, we don't turn metals on this lathe.
carb01.jpg .. carb02.jpg
 
Vahmurka said:
3-4 months? I wish the indexable inserts I'm talking about here worked that long. Actually, that's what they are intended to last.
Here are the pictures of current set-up. Is the angle right? If not, could you draw a line of proper angle? I used a metal rod for the reference only, we don't turn metals on this lathe.
View attachment 234751 .. View attachment 234752
Click to expand...

If you are cutting wood, plastic, and leather, it should last a year or years.

You do have too much angle. The cutting edge should be more square to the work piece. Kind of looks like the insert is big for the holder. If you are not cutting steel, a high speed steel tool bit would work fine.

Is your cutting tool on center?
 
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece-indexable-carbide-tool-set-39931.html
This is the set I that I use, the edge usually lasts me about 4-5 months with normal use of tips, ferrules, wood, and sometimes metal. Unless I drop the holder on the concrete floor....then all time frames change, lol. They work well, and when all cutters are used, like stated by Kim above, I just buy another set.
Sometimes when cutting stuff that has alot of epoxy or other soft stuff on it, the cutting edge gets a film over it and won't cut as well. I have to scrape the film off with a razor or if not to bad, a cloth with denatured alcohol to remove the debris/crud.
I still think your partner needs watching..lol.
Dave
 
Vahmurka said:
3-4 months? I wish the indexable inserts I'm talking about here worked that long. Actually, that's what they are intended to last.
Here are the pictures of current set-up. Is the angle right? If not, could you draw a line of proper angle? I used a metal rod for the reference only, we don't turn metals on this lathe.
View attachment 234751 .. View attachment 234752
Click to expand...

From the angle of the picture, these look bigger than 1/4 inch bits. If they are then the tip will not be on center of the work piece. The cutting edge will be above center and the spinning piece will not contact the cutting edge but will hit below it and it will appear that the tip is dull.

Those tool posts are meant for 1/4 inch bits only.

just a thought

Kim
 
Last edited:
whammo57 said:
From the angle of the picture, these look bigger than 1/4 inch bits. If they are then the tip will not be on center of the work piece. The cutting edge will be above center and the spinning piece will not contact the cutting edge but will hit below it and it will appear that the tip is dull.

Those tool posts are meant for 1/4 inch bits only.

just a thought

Kim
Click to expand...

My thought also, Kim. They look larger than 1/4" to me.
 
carbide cutter

Chuck up a dead center in the head stock. The tip of the cutter should touch the tip of the dead center.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Or put a utility blade between them and check if the utility blade is dead straight up.
Click to expand...

That is the way that I've set up cutters for many many years. I adjust the height until the blade is perpendicular to the work piece/test bar and then lower the cutter approximately a 1/4 to 1/2 turn on the holder so that the edge is a couple of .001's lower than center.

Much depends on the type of insert that is being used as for it's usability in making clean cuts. Cheap indexable tool holders bought on e-bay normally come with inserts that, as far as I'm concerned, are completely useless. I immediately toss them into the waste. They do not cut but shred the material.

Dick
 
rhncue said:
That is the way that I've set up cutters for many many years. I adjust the height until the blade is perpendicular to the work piece/test bar and then lower the cutter approximately a 1/4 to 1/2 turn on the holder so that the edge is a couple of .001's lower than center.

Much depends on the type of insert that is being used as for it's usability in making clean cuts. Cheap indexable tool holders bought on e-bay normally come with inserts that, as far as I'm concerned, are completely useless. I immediately toss them into the waste. They do not cut but shred the material.

Dick
Click to expand...


You are right, the carbide inserts that come with the cheap tools do not give a very nice finish. The insert that comes in them is a TCMT090204.

Would you care to share what insert you change them out to???

Kim
 
whammo57 said:
You are right, the carbide inserts that come with the cheap tools do not give a very nice finish. The insert that comes in them is a TCMT090204.

Would you care to share what insert you change them out to???

Kim
Click to expand...

These are the ones that I use usually on all wood, plastics, aluminum and phenolics. Not on steel. Olsonsview posted this some time ago. These dudes are very sharp and will lay your finger open like a razor if you aren't careful.


" #7
07-25-2010, 06:23 AM
olsonsview
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2006
vCash: 500
iTrader: (13)
Posts: 650

Try those indexable inserts . . .
and you will never go back to HSS again for most work. They work! Before I started using this insert I used to grind my own HSS. The homemade bits cut well and broke way too easy. Now I can use this efficient bit on both of my large metal lathes, Cuesmith Deluxe, and CueCompanion, without having to spend a lot of time carefully grinding and quenching.
By the way I made a claim that I get a year out of my bits, that deserves some explanation. There are three cutting edges each insert, And I do not cut anything except phenolic and wood with them, nor do I use them to cut tapers on shafts or butts, with the exception of collar installations, the two ends of a handle wrap groove, or an occasional butt cap repair. I only make and repair cues part time, so yeah, I can get about a year out of three edges.
This post has all the info you may need:
Yes 3/8 shank bits are available - 12-30-2008, 07:44 AM
I use them on my Hightower Deluxe. Either mill out Chris' deluxe holder to lower the cutting edge or better: mill the indexable tool holders bottom surfaces until the standard 1/4 inch shank size is achieved to fit the lathe tool holder Chris supplies.
The part numbers and prices I paid recently are as follows:

404-1040 3/8" Indexable set (5 tool holders. Chinese) $18.00

6-TCG-2112 TCGT 21.51-AK HO1 inserts @ $5.93 each

I know some tried to order from my supplier and got no reply. I asked why and was told when you leave a message, indicate it is for Bruce at the tool counter. And if you leave a number he can call you back.
Phone them at: 440-975-9684

To repeat an earlier post: Inserts for the !/2" holders are:

6-TCG-3212 TCGT 32.51 HO1 these are small radius @ $6.25 each

6-TCG-3222 TCGT 32.52-AK HO1 @ $5.53 each

They sell the bits any quantity at the prices I mentioned. I think this dealer is cheaper than any other that AZers tried.

Also they sell the Aloris clone tool holders cheap! The Turning and Facing holder for the 6-12 inch lathes run only $13.50 each. The part number is:
202-9401, Other holders also available and inexpensive.
I hope this helps you guys out some . . . Lou Olson."

Dick
 
rhncue said:
These are the ones that I use usually on all wood, plastics, aluminum and phenolics. Not on steel. Olsonsview posted this some time ago. These dudes are very sharp and will lay your finger open like a razor if you aren't careful.


" #7
07-25-2010, 06:23 AM
olsonsview
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2006
vCash: 500
iTrader: (13)
Posts: 650

Try those indexable inserts . . .
and you will never go back to HSS again for most work. They work! Before I started using this insert I used to grind my own HSS. The homemade bits cut well and broke way too easy. Now I can use this efficient bit on both of my large metal lathes, Cuesmith Deluxe, and CueCompanion, without having to spend a lot of time carefully grinding and quenching.
By the way I made a claim that I get a year out of my bits, that deserves some explanation. There are three cutting edges each insert, And I do not cut anything except phenolic and wood with them, nor do I use them to cut tapers on shafts or butts, with the exception of collar installations, the two ends of a handle wrap groove, or an occasional butt cap repair. I only make and repair cues part time, so yeah, I can get about a year out of three edges.
This post has all the info you may need:
Yes 3/8 shank bits are available - 12-30-2008, 07:44 AM
I use them on my Hightower Deluxe. Either mill out Chris' deluxe holder to lower the cutting edge or better: mill the indexable tool holders bottom surfaces until the standard 1/4 inch shank size is achieved to fit the lathe tool holder Chris supplies.
The part numbers and prices I paid recently are as follows:

404-1040 3/8" Indexable set (5 tool holders. Chinese) $18.00

6-TCG-2112 TCGT 21.51-AK HO1 inserts @ $5.93 each

I know some tried to order from my supplier and got no reply. I asked why and was told when you leave a message, indicate it is for Bruce at the tool counter. And if you leave a number he can call you back.
Phone them at: 440-975-9684

To repeat an earlier post: Inserts for the !/2" holders are:

6-TCG-3212 TCGT 32.51 HO1 these are small radius @ $6.25 each

6-TCG-3222 TCGT 32.52-AK HO1 @ $5.53 each

They sell the bits any quantity at the prices I mentioned. I think this dealer is cheaper than any other that AZers tried.

Also they sell the Aloris clone tool holders cheap! The Turning and Facing holder for the 6-12 inch lathes run only $13.50 each. The part number is:
202-9401, Other holders also available and inexpensive.
I hope this helps you guys out some . . . Lou Olson."

Dick
Click to expand...

Great information Dick...

Thanks ... I will work on getting some of those.

Kim
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top