CB frozen to short rail

M

mnShooter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm about 10% making a ball with the cue ball frozen to the short rail on my 9 footer. If I move the cue ball off the rail a diamond I'm about 80%. The cue ball is so close to my hand it feels like I'm shooting a gun with a 1" barrel. I just can't tell if the cue is pointing in the right direction or not. I've been shooting this shot a few hundred times a week and don't seem to be getting much better at it.

I've tried snooker stance. I've also tried shooting with my left eye over the cue, right eye over the cue and cue in the center of my chin. I'm slightly left eye dominant but not completely. The shot never looks right when I am down on it. I just don't get it. I usually use a pretty long bridge 10-12 inches.

So what's my problem and how do I fix it? I see a few issues. I think if I could fix this and make this shot most of the time it could bring my game to a whole new level.

Here's a video from the front view:

http://www.vimeo.com/18898004
 
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I'm probably the last person to be giving anyone advice, but since I'm the only one around at this hour I'll tell you what I do. I choke up a little on the cue, (not a lot) and I try to get my bridge hand further back on the table edge than it looked like you were doing. But that's just me.

From my extremely uneducated viewpoint, your stroke looks pretty damned good, so I'll reiterate that I'm not the one to be giving you advice. I just mentioned the little differences that I make shooting when I have the cueball on the rail.

Good luck. I'm sure you'll get many more replies tomorrow, from the folks that really know what they're talking about! I'll be looking forward to hear what they have to say, too.
 
Thanks for the response. You're right, I used to use a rail bridge with my middle and ring fingers resting against the side of the table. I think I went away from that because the hand on the table feels more stable. I think I might go back to that because it gives me a little bit more distance from the cueball.

I do play at a fairly high level right now. I've been playing seriously for about 11 years. I'd say I'm easily top 50 in my state. But that's mostly barbox and you don't really need to be a great shot on a barbox :D.
 
I personally like standing further back and stepping into the shot.

Make sure your forearm stays at 90 degrees.

Your popping up during your stroke quite a bit. On some of your misses the cue isn't going straight through, rather it's deflecting to the side.
 
What do you mean 90 degrees? Straight up and down from the front or the side?

If you mean from the front then that's kind of what I noticed too. My elbow is tucked in. I'm starting with my tip off to the left of center a little bit and then following through to the right from my view. I think it's mostly due to elbow position.

Another thing is my head is a little to the left of the cue, it should be more centered or slightly to the left of my nose. Also need to stay down too.

I was working on straightening my elbow so it is vertical but it feels so weird when I actually get it in the correct position. Feels like my elbow is sticking way out to the right. Guess I'll just have to keep practicing it until it feels normal.
 
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mnShooter said:
You're right, I used to use a rail bridge with my middle and ring fingers resting against the side of the table. I think I went away from that because the hand on the table feels more stable. I think I might go back to that because it gives me a little bit more distance from the cueball.
Click to expand...

This is a good rail bridge. An alternative that is more comfortable is to lay your fingers on the rail and bend your knuckles so your palm folds down the side of the table. Lay the cue on the rail between your index finger and thumb, which should be pointing upwards to for a groove for the cue.

Moving your (relaxed) grip forward of perpendicular will help to avoid a miscue.

You're very low to your cue and it's a bit elevated. Do that you fell a bit bunched up? Try raising your shoulders and head to allow for more room, and level out that cue. Also try rotating your stance towards a snooker stance. You will probably find it improves your alignment, and your elbow and your stroke will straighten out.
 
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Every thing that Mark stated and then let's not stop there.

FAULTS:
1. Wrong Bridge
2. Wrong Grip
3. Dangerous eye pattern
4. No Process
5. Note how much your head jumps up on every shot.

FIXES:
1. The bridge you are using makes you elevate your cue! This special shot calls for the "Extended Rail Bridge".
2. Mark has it correct. Choke up about a hand width on your cue.
3. You need help in this area. Your eyes are all over the map. See an SPF Instructor for help.
4. You changed your stroke sequence on every shot. See an SPF Instructor for help.

Now go back and look at your own vid. Compare all of our notes. I think you can correct some on your own and with others you will need some experienced help.

Have a great snowy day......randyg

PS: I will be in Mankato twice this year if you would like to spend a day together.
 
MNShooter.

When Randy speaks, listen!!! He has given you some excellent advice.

Steve
 
Ok thanks for the responses guys. I'll try to work on some things and post a follow up vid in a few days.

I took the SPF regular course a few years ago with Randy. So I do understand what Randy is talking about.

I was working on my bridge, elbow, head and staying down last night and I think I made about 6 out of 8 shots.
 
Thanks for the video.
In addition to what others have said here.

If you look at the shot around 2:20 you will see that your tip comes off the line which leads me to believe either your grip or the movement of the back hand pulled the cue away from where you wanted to hit the cue ball.
 
I'm having better results with the longer bridge, focusing on staying down and also not elevating my cue. But I think the biggest problem now is my crooked stroke which looks to me like it is caused by my elbow being too close to my body.

So, does anyone have any more tips on how to keep the elbow straight up and down. The elbow should be straight up and down when looking from the front. But mine is tucked in. I've tried changing my wrist so it is not bowed outwards and also tried moving my body closer to the cue but that doesn't seem to work. I can force it if I look at it after I am down but it should be automatic. When I actually get it in the right position it feels like it is sticking way out to the side.

Should the feeling be that everything is hanging from the elbow on the grip arm? Should everything below the elbow be tension free?
 
mnShooter said:
I'm having better results with the longer bridge, focusing on staying down and also not elevating my cue. But I think the biggest problem now is my crooked stroke which looks to me like it is caused by my elbow being too close to my body.

So, does anyone have any more tips on how to keep the elbow straight up and down. The elbow should be straight up and down when looking from the front. But mine is tucked in. I've tried changing my wrist so it is not bowed outwards and also tried moving my body closer to the cue but that doesn't seem to work. I can force it if I look at it after I am down but it should be automatic. When I actually get it in the right position it feels like it is sticking way out to the side.

Should the feeling be that everything is hanging from the elbow on the grip arm? Should everything below the elbow be tension free?
Click to expand...

YES, if this is met then everything above the elbow will be tension free also reducing the likelihood of steering
 
mnShooter said:
But I think the biggest problem now is my crooked stroke which looks to me like it is caused by my elbow being too close to my body.
Click to expand...

It's your stance and the cure is finding the correct angle for you. I think you will find that you need to rotate counter-clockwise a little.

To find how much, try cradling your cue in your grip hand (very relaxed) at its balance point. Stand straight up and with your eyes closed relax with your arms at your sides. Really relax. Open your eyes and note the angle the cue is at relative to your shoulders. That's the angle your shoulders should be at in relation to the shot line. Start our ball address from that angle and you should find your upper arm is lined up with the shot line and it's very natural to move your grip hand along it.
 
Lol, I thought you were trying to hypnotize me. Close your eyes, relax, listen to the sound of my voice. Really relax ...
 
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I think you pointed me in the right direction. It seems to me it's being caused by hips and lower body position. I tend to stand with my front foot parallel to the shot line, back foot perpendicular and my weight in my back hip. Picture Bustamante's stance. With a more neutral lower body stance it is much easier to get the elbow in a good position.
 
mnshooter,

it really doesn t make sense to copy a stance from another person. Each person has to find his personal alignment! If you have trouble with setting up your alignment it would perhaps help to get a good and qualified instructor who could help you. Proper alignment is one of the most important fundamentals in billiards. I prefer-or better i usualy try to help a student/player like R. Eckert/A. Huber shown up in the PAT 1 DVD (to let your body *do the work* and *align himself*). It doesn t work for everyone-but for the most. But to give advices without seeing somebody live to create a correct and comfortable *body-alignment* would be not seriously.

lg
Ingo
 
The steps Mark describes are quite effective. I have all of my students go through this process. I have had students immediately tell me they are far more comfortable, and don't feel like they are forcing the cue to move straight.

Steve
 
Ratta said:
...(to let your body *do the work* and *align himself*).
Click to expand...

Yes. Keep it simple.

Everyone is different. Sizes, shapes, and physical limitations. You need to get your arms, shoulders, and head in alignment for the shot. What works for one player may or may not won't work for you. Simply let the rest of your body do what it needs to to accomplish this while providing a stable base and allowing room to swing the cue.

In the set position, it's difficult or impossible to see how your body is positioned. Instructors are very effective in helping a player position themselves in proper alignment, because they can see everything and know what suggestions to make specifically for you.

It always amazes me how many players struggle with alignment issues, but are reluctant to see an instructor to correct them.
 
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