Centerball...haters gonna hate

A sliding cueball is the easiest thing to predict and play shape with. Long shots are a lot easier with a tip of bottom so that the cueball ends up sliding before contact. I really have no idea what you are talking about but Tor Lowry talks about bottom and top in most of his videos. Also, he didn't start a centerball "craze." Most pros prefer to only use center axis and a sliding cueball because its easiest way to control the path and speed of the cueball. its not impossible with top or bottom but in a situation where I can slide an go one rail out vs. draw back sliding and going one rail out is the safer route.

This thread hurts my brain.
 
ktrepal85 said:
By the same logic:

On every shot the cue ball starts off on the shot line.

Let me repeat that: On every shot the cue ball starts off on the shot line.

It's all relative, no need to call anyone stupid.
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Actually, that is only true on a vertical center axis shot. Not true on all the various english shots.;)
 
ktrepal85 said:
I think hitting centerball makes you more likely to miss the shot.
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I stopped reading here...really lol?? There is so much fail in this thread and no I am not beating my chest with this post.

How in the world do you plan on utilizing English hitting the spot on the cueball you desire (since you think center ball makes it more likely to miss a shot) if you are unable to locate and accurately hit the center of the cue ball?

Bonus Hint....a majority of shots in pool (say 75% give or take) can and possibly should (notice I said possibly not definitely) be shot with center ball to make the ball with position on the next shot. You don't have to use English on a lot of shots in a game and can just adjust the speed of the shot for the shape aspect.

This is just an estimated # FWIW so don't assume it is the exact # as every game and situation is different.

People try too hard in this game sometimes. K.I.S.S. !!
 
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Neil said:
Actually, that is only true on a vertical center axis shot. Not true on all the various english shots.;)
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Yep Corey and John Schmidt talk about this in TAR 24 and how swerve and throw **** shit up and how most snooker players don't need to use spin.
 
The late, great Johnny Ervolino told me that he preferred to favor either left or right of center, depending on the shot, because when you try to hit center and fail, your error may be on the wrong side of the cue ball.

Of course, there were times when it was absolutely necessary to strive for a center ball hit, but mostly, he preferred not to.

Also, there are spin players and there are punch players. Punch players prefer to play closer to the center of the cue ball.
 
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FranCrimi said:
The late, great Johnny Ervolino told me that he preferred to favor either left or right of center, depending on the shot, because when you try to hit center and fail, your error may be on the wrong side of the cue ball.

Of course, there were times when it was absolutely necessary to strive for a center ball hit, but mostly, he preferred not to.
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Fran, I totally agree with Mr. Ervolino.
 
I'm hitting true center axis maybe 20% of the time.

You practice different paths to the next ball using different strokes until you know what to do without thinking. It's all practice, recognition, muscle memory and execution. You guys make things more complicated than they are.
 
ktrepal85 said:
I think when people are referring to centerball they are actually talking about the center of the ball, not just the vertical axis.
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Centerball almost always refers to the vertical center line of the CB.

Why? Because...

1. Side spin creates all the difficulty (squirt, swerve, etc.).

2. You can (mostly) do without side spin, but not without follow/draw.

pj
chgo
 
FranCrimi said:
The late, great Johnny Ervolino told me that he preferred to favor either left or right of center, depending on the shot, because when you try to hit center and fail, your error may be on the wrong side of the cue ball.

Of course, there were times when it was absolutely necessary to strive for a center ball hit, but mostly, he preferred not to.

Also, there are spin players and there are punch players. Punch players prefer to play closer to the center of the cue ball.
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This is the same stuff CJ Wiley was promoting here, and even though they're both great players, they're both wrong about this. The reason is that there's simply no difference in the amount or kind of error you get from avoiding centerball.

Whether you try to hit center ball or one side of center, if you miss your tip target by 1mm to the left (for instance), your CB will go offline by the same amount and in the same direction either way. Not only that, but the CB's action off the first rail will also be off by the same amount and in the same direction.

I know it's counterintuitive, but it simply doesn't do anything.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Whether you try to hit center ball or one side of center, if you miss your tip target by 1mm to the left (for instance), your CB will go offline by the same amount and in the same direction either way. Not only that, but the CB's action off the first rail will also be off by the same amount and in the same direction.

pj
chgo
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Your use of the word 'same'...does it mean 'same' or does it mean 'about the same'?

Because it won't be the same.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
This is the same stuff CJ Wiley was promoting here, and even though they're both great players, they're both wrong about this. The reason is that there's simply no difference in the amount or kind of error you get from avoiding centerball.

Whether you try to hit center ball or one side of center, if you miss your tip target by 1mm to the left (for instance), your CB will go offline by the same amount and in the same direction either way. Not only that, but the CB's action off the first rail will also be off by the same amount and in the same direction.

I know it's counterintuitive, but it simply doesn't do anything.

pj
chgo
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Knew it would get to TOI at some point, lol.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
This is the same stuff CJ Wiley was promoting here, and even though they're both great players, they're both wrong about this. The reason is that there's simply no difference in the amount or kind of error you get from avoiding centerball.

Whether you try to hit center ball or one side of center, if you miss your tip target by 1mm to the left (for instance), your CB will go offline by the same amount and in the same direction either way. Not only that, but the CB's action off the first rail will also be off by the same amount and in the same direction.

I know it's counterintuitive, but it simply doesn't do anything.

pj
chgo
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I disagree.

Consider the following:

Example 1(aiming for centerball): Miss left by 1 mm - Severe Difference In Throw
Example 1(aiming for centerball): Miss right by 1 mm - Severe Difference In Throw

Example 2(aiming for 1mm left): Miss left by 1 mm - Medium Difference in Throw
Example 2(aiming for 1mm left): Miss right by 1 mm - Severe Difference in Throw

Conclusion: By aiming slightly off center you increase your odds of making the shot even though you miss your target on the cue ball.
 
ktrepal85 said:
I disagree.

Consider the following:

Example 1(aiming for centerball): Miss left by 1 mm - Severe Difference In Throw
Example 1(aiming for centerball): Miss right by 1 mm - Severe Difference In Throw

Example 2(aiming for 1mm left): Miss left by 1 mm - Medium Difference in Throw
Example 2(aiming for 1mm left): Miss right by 1 mm - Severe Difference in Throw

Conclusion: By aiming slightly off center you increase your odds of making the shot even though you miss your target on the cue ball.
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Considering that the impact circle of a normal speed hit is ~3mm diameter, I'm guessing that nobody would notice the difference.
 
ktrepal85 said:
I don't think so. I think when people are referring to centerball they are actually talking about the center of the ball, not just the vertical axis.
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Context is everything. On occasion, people do literally mean the center of the cue ball when they say center ball, but when talking about "playing near center ball" or that "you should play center ball as much as possible" as everyone else has already pointed out they are almost always talking about the center vertical axis of the cue ball (i.e. no left or right english but anything top to bottom is included).

Based on this thread and many of your other posts you appear to be fairly new to pool and probably not very good and certainly not very knowledgeable. No biggie, we were all there once. The thing is though I have noticed that you like to argue with long standing accepted definitions and understandings (like the above), and with science, and with all kinds of other things in your various posts and threads.

As someone who is learning it is certainly healthy to question things. It can even be healthy to push back just a little bit or to play devil's advocate instead of just accepting things without thought or proof. But to vehemently argue things which you have little knowledge about or experience with (against those who do no less) is just asinine. I think you would be better served in your learning process with a little more of asking questions, a little more of asking for explanations, a little more of listening, and a little less of vehemently arguing and disputing everything.
 
FranCrimi said:
The late, great Johnny Ervolino told me that he preferred to favor either left or right of center, depending on the shot, because when you try to hit center and fail, your error may be on the wrong side of the cue ball.

Of course, there were times when it was absolutely necessary to strive for a center ball hit, but mostly, he preferred not to.

Also, there are spin players and there are punch players. Punch players prefer to play closer to the center of the cue ball.
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Frantistic advice and observation... Most people that can't understand this are likely looking at it from a non pool players perspective... Thinking only of a 4 1/2" pocket and a straight in shot where the permissible error is the largest.... Shots where more than brushing the rail spells disaster or shots where you have less than a full pocket reward you for english use and hedging not finding the wrong side of whitey......
 
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