Cf ferrule removal

Dave38

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
Hey wondering if anyone has been able to remove a ferrrule assembly from a carbon fiber shaft without damaging the ferrule? My theory would be to use heat such as boiling water or heat gun to break down the epoxy Bond but I don't want to damage the shaft either. The repair is the shaft sounds like a baby's rattle in the front end
 
I don't know that boiling water at 212 degrees is hot enough for the epoxy to break down, or to damage the cf. You could try it by boiling water, then submerging part of the tip for an extended period of time sufficient to let the het penetrate through the ferrule and up into the cf, without actually submerging the shaft it self, and once it's as hot as you can get it try and apply radial pressure to the ferrule to see if the epoxy will let go. I think I'd make sure I had a spare ferrule handy just in case.
 
I think you could run into other problems just as easily. What is problem with replacing the ferrule?
 
Okay, the reason for trying to remove the ferrule as a whole, to not reuse it, but #1 know how it was made so I can replicate it.
#2 if I cut/drill/bore it out....how will I know what was the actual cause of the rattle noise? there will be pieces/debris left, with no real evidence.
After a lot of research I found the melt/damage point of CF is ridiculously high, so I went ahead and tried the hot water....no dice, then used my heat gun at about 600 degrees F, slowly rotating it and checking the temp.....then using a vise, clamped the tip into it, and gave a twist and it came out, no harm or foul on the CF end. Found that the shaft was left lying flat after the ferrule install and the extra epoxy settled on one side, and after some use, the extra 'leg' of epoxy broke loose and hence the rattle. The pictures show it pretty well. ALSO, the manufacturer apparently did not prep the inner tube surface deep enough so the squeeze out/ extra epoxy did not adhere to the inner tube like one would want......bad prep seems to have caused this. They only scraped/sanded the length of the ferrule so the extra epoxy was probably still sitting on mold release and not bare naked CF.
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I see that lack of prep all the time. Judging from the surface, looks a bit like Pechauer?
 
I had a McDermott defy with kinda same thing except it was at the joint.

My shafts I leave no room between the Ferrell(vault plate) or joint and foam because of what I learned with the defy and now this
 
Dave38 said:
Okay, the reason for trying to remove the ferrule as a whole, to not reuse it, but #1 know how it was made so I can replicate it.
#2 if I cut/drill/bore it out....how will I know what was the actual cause of the rattle noise? there will be pieces/debris left, with no real evidence.
After a lot of research I found the melt/damage point of CF is ridiculously high, so I went ahead and tried the hot water....no dice, then used my heat gun at about 600 degrees F, slowly rotating it and checking the temp.....then using a vise, clamped the tip into it, and gave a twist and it came out, no harm or foul on the CF end. Found that the shaft was left lying flat after the ferrule install and the extra epoxy settled on one side, and after some use, the extra 'leg' of epoxy broke loose and hence the rattle. The pictures show it pretty well. ALSO, the manufacturer apparently did not prep the inner tube surface deep enough so the squeeze out/ extra epoxy did not adhere to the inner tube like one would want......bad prep seems to have caused this. They only scraped/sanded the length of the ferrule so the extra epoxy was probably still sitting on mold release and not bare naked CF.
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Excellent detective work there.

Funny, the ones who see it all the time wouldn't give it up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
 
Dave38 said:
Okay, the reason for trying to remove the ferrule as a whole, to not reuse it, but #1 know how it was made so I can replicate it.
#2 if I cut/drill/bore it out....how will I know what was the actual cause of the rattle noise? there will be pieces/debris left, with no real evidence.
After a lot of research I found the melt/damage point of CF is ridiculously high, so I went ahead and tried the hot water....no dice, then used my heat gun at about 600 degrees F, slowly rotating it and checking the temp.....then using a vise, clamped the tip into it, and gave a twist and it came out, no harm or foul on the CF end. Found that the shaft was left lying flat after the ferrule install and the extra epoxy settled on one side, and after some use, the extra 'leg' of epoxy broke loose and hence the rattle. The pictures show it pretty well. ALSO, the manufacturer apparently did not prep the inner tube surface deep enough so the squeeze out/ extra epoxy did not adhere to the inner tube like one would want......bad prep seems to have caused this. They only scraped/sanded the length of the ferrule so the extra epoxy was probably still sitting on mold release and not bare naked CF.
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great post.
 
fish2 said:
What brand?
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Don't want to reveal the maker, as I am hoping it's a 'one of' kinda thing.

Unfortunately, this would have been a warranty issue which the maker would have fixed, had the customer been the original owner, but he wasn't. I will be reaching out to the maker with these pics so that they may be made aware of a possible issue with other shafts
 
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Dave38 said:
Don't want to reveal the maker, as I am hoping it's a 'one of' kinda thing.

Unfortunately, this would have been a warranty issue which the maker would have fixed, had the customer been the original owner, but he wasn't. I will be reaching out to the maker with these pics so that they may be made aware of a possible issue with other shafts
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This is exactly why I come here. Thanks for the clear explanation and pictures Dave, I truly appreciate the knowledge and experience you have shared, and continue to share here.

Take care.
 
kgoods said:
This is exactly why I come here. Thanks for the clear explanation and pictures Dave, I truly appreciate the knowledge and experience you have shared, and continue to share here.

Take care.
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Ditto those remarks. Dave has been a wealth of information and he has helped me out with problems I’ve run into. Thanks Dave!
 
cf is fibers in epoxy. It stands to reason that heat to sufficiently break down the epoxy holding the ferrule will break down the epoxy in the cf.
 
After doing quite a bit of research, I found that most of the resins used in production of CF tubes is able to withstand high temps by design. Most epoxies we use in cue building/repair seem to have a breakdown temp around 200-300 degrees F, but in CF, some can handle over 2000 degrees C. One of the articles I read.... https://carbonfibergear.com/blogs/carbonfiber/carbon-fiber-durability I used my heatgun set at 500 degrees F and slowly turn it for a couple minutes, removed it, let it set for 30 seconds, then another couple minutes over the gun until the temp seemed to stay the same once removed for 30-40 seconds then clamped the tip and carefully twisted the ferrule and it pooped right out. There is not even a difference in the glossy finish of the CF tube.
 
Dave38 said:
Hey wondering if anyone has been able to remove a ferrrule assembly from a carbon fiber shaft without damaging the ferrule? My theory would be to use heat such as boiling water or heat gun to break down the epoxy Bond but I don't want to damage the shaft either. The repair is the shaft sounds like a baby's rattle in the front end
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Hello
I saw an article on you tube,
Cur end off at ferrule ,installed a new piece of g10.
Then new ferrule.
Hope this helps.
Curtis
 
Dave38 said:
Okay, the reason for trying to remove the ferrule as a whole, to not reuse it, but #1 know how it was made so I can replicate it.
#2 if I cut/drill/bore it out....how will I know what was the actual cause of the rattle noise? there will be pieces/debris left, with no real evidence.
After a lot of research I found the melt/damage point of CF is ridiculously high, so I went ahead and tried the hot water....no dice, then used my heat gun at about 600 degrees F, slowly rotating it and checking the temp.....then using a vise, clamped the tip into it, and gave a twist and it came out, no harm or foul on the CF end. Found that the shaft was left lying flat after the ferrule install and the extra epoxy settled on one side, and after some use, the extra 'leg' of epoxy broke loose and hence the rattle. The pictures show it pretty well. ALSO, the manufacturer apparently did not prep the inner tube surface deep enough so the squeeze out/ extra epoxy did not adhere to the inner tube like one would want......bad prep seems to have caused this. They only scraped/sanded the length of the ferrule so the extra epoxy was probably still sitting on mold release and not bare naked CF.
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Great analysis, thank you. Was the shaft not foam filled?
 
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