Changing cue balance - how does it effect flex/response?

[CJ Wiley]

I'm experimenting with changing the weight on a cue to see what is ideal these days. I used to play with a 19.4 cue and I've been putting LEAD TAPE around the joint area to move it up to 20.5-21 oz. . . Does it matter a lot or a little where this LEAD TAPE is placed? Someone told me that the farther up above the wrap (towards the tip), the more the flex, thus the spin and possibly the deflection would be effected......Can anyone that has experience with this tell me the best way to add weight WITHOUT changing the playing characteristics? Thanks C J WILEY

 

[pt109]

I have found that changing the weight WILL change how a cue plays.
I had two butts and seven shafts...EVERY shaft was more flexible when
on the heavier butt...( 1.75 oz difference )
With the lighter cue, I could quick-draw better...
..with the heavier cue, I could spin whitey longer.

Instead of altering your cue, I would suggest finding another one...
...and keep the one you got as is.
You may find that on some days or some conditions, you'll prefer one
over the other.

 

[ENGLISH!]

adding wt.

Mr. Wiley, I do have experience with the weighting of golf clubs but not pool cues. I usually remove the butt weights from the cues that I have purchased. My best guess & it seems logical, would be to add the lead tape at the exact normal balance point of the cue. It should be foward of where you would ever grip the cue. It will be in the front of your grip but I doubt that it would ever distract YOU. Adding it near the joint will move the balance point more foward & make the cue 'feel' heavier on the bridge hand. Putting the weight near the butt will make it 'feel' lighter on the bridge hand. I hope this helps.

I doubt it will significantly effect the deflection of the shaft as that is most effected by the weight in the front end of the shaft. It might effect the flex 'feel' of the shaft however. You might want to ask this in the Cue Maker Forum.

I am interested to know why you would want to add weight. I'm looking for a solid but 'light' hit as I feel I can always add power when I want, but it is sometimes difficult at times, at least for met, to hit 'light' enough. I even soft back spin the CB before it turns over to the foward roll. That seems to work well, but not always.

Good Luck with your experiment.

 

[The Renfro]

You are looking at the moment of inertia, and changing the balance can impact how the shaft design/taper work in loading against the cueball... Especially if you swerve the cue thru contact......

Usually the only part of the cue discussed is the ferule and first8 inches or so as far as affecting playing characteristics but balance has subtle effects in how the shaft kicks and how it transfers harmonics back to your hand.....

If you make it to the US Open this year I think you and Billy Gibbs have more to talk about than the usual old "theories"... LOL

 

[CJ Wiley]

You are looking at the moment of inertia, and changing the balance can impact how the shaft design/taper work in loading against the cueball... Especially if you swerve the cue thru contact......

Usually the only part of the cue discussed is the ferule and first8 inches or so as far as affecting playing characteristics but balance has subtle effects in how the shaft kicks and how it transfers harmonics back to your hand.....

If you make it to the US Open this year I think you and Billy Gibbs have more to talk about than the usual old "theories"... LOL

yeah, I'm wondering about the "shaft kicks" in particular....I'm experimenting to see what balance and weight I like, but don't want to change the hit in the process (any more than possible)....

Then, of course I'm going to have one made to those exact specs, but at least I'll know it will be the perfect weight....the one I used to play with just seems too light....thanks for your response

 

[CJ Wiley]

Mr. Wiley, I do have experience with the weighting of golf clubs but not pool cues. I usually remove the butt weights from the cues that I have purchased. My best guess & it seems logical, would be to add the lead tape at the exact normal balance point of the cue. It should be foward of where you would ever grip the cue. It will be in the front of your grip but I doubt that it would ever distract YOU. Adding it near the joint will move the balance point more foward & make the cue 'feel' heavier on the bridge hand. Putting the weight near the butt will make it 'feel' lighter on the bridge hand. I hope this helps.

I doubt it will significantly effect the deflection of the shaft as that is most effected by the weight in the front end of the shaft. It might effect the flex 'feel' of the shaft however. You might want to ask this in the Cue Maker Forum.

I am interested to know why you would want to add weight. I'm looking for a solid but 'light' hit as I feel I can always add power when I want, but it is sometimes difficult at times, at least for met, to hit 'light' enough. I even soft back spin the CB before it turns over to the foward roll. That seems to work well, but not always.

Good Luck with your experiment.

Thanks, the Cue Forum would be better, I forgot it was down at the bottom of the page.....I'm still fumbling around here....I appreciate the help

 

[naji]

I'm experimenting with changing the weight on a cue to see what is ideal these days. I used to play with a 19.4 cue and I've been putting LEAD TAPE around the joint area to move it up to 20.5-21 oz. . . Does it matter a lot or a little where this LEAD TAPE is placed? Someone told me that the farther up above the wrap (towards the tip), the more the flex, thus the spin and possibly the deflection would be effected......Can anyone that has experience with this tell me the best way to add weight WITHOUT changing the playing characteristics? Thanks C J WILEY

This depends on how you grip the butt, very loose, and very loose wrist adding weight to shaft will effect speed, spin only, pivot point might change a bit of which will effect deflection very slightly , for sure it increase swerve of which at times it cancels deflection nicely at low/medium speed, Tip size and your bridge position, and how much pivot you have is the major factor in deflection, i use 11 mm tip, i adjust for deflection by changing bridge / pivot when i shoot hard and my tip is at the edge of CB ( most of the time this makes my shaft pivoted, but at times i do not notice that my shaft is parallel to CB (No pivot) i miss the shot, due to less deflection than when pivoted)

 

[oldgame]

I was forced into changing the balance of my cue just recently. My shaft broke and had to go to another shaft which was much lighter. So I added weight into the butt to make up for it. The one thing I notice was my wrist starting aching, I think it's do to muscle memory. I was use to feeling the hit in the front of the cue and now I feel the hit more towards the butt. But in about a week my wrist now feels fine.

 

[whitewolf]

I'm experimenting with changing the weight on a cue to see what is ideal these days. I used to play with a 19.4 cue and I've been putting LEAD TAPE around the joint area to move it up to 20.5-21 oz. . . Does it matter a lot or a little where this LEAD TAPE is placed? Someone told me that the farther up above the wrap (towards the tip), the more the flex, thus the spin and possibly the deflection would be effected......Can anyone that has experience with this tell me the best way to add weight WITHOUT changing the playing characteristics? Thanks C J WILEY

Funny- I tried to do some balancing experiments with LEAD TAPE and no place sold any tape with lead in it for environmental and health reasons. I used to buy lead tape from golf outlets to temporarily fill in for a lost weight on the club head.

Once you get the desired balance, I would get Mike Capone to make you a custom cue. He made one for me and drilled out a lot of the butt and adjusted the weight between the butt pieces. He also used lighter wood for the butt and metal joints. With an OB1 12.75 mm shaft, the cue weighed 20 oz with a 20" forward balance point.

 

[Rak9up]

I had a custom cue built that has the same diameter in the wrap area (the very back of the stick doesn't get any larger). I also believe in muscle memory and comfort. So my cuestick's butt has the same diameter so all shots always feel the same, if I choke up for a punch shot or hold further back for heavy draw the stick always feels the same. Well what I noticed is because there is less wood behind my hand it increased the balance forward putting more weight resting on my bridge hand. Which in my case only effected open bridge topspin shots( it seemed to add control of the cue after the shot I also think I get a little more topspin). I tried looking up research online from places like Dr Dave's website(great place for info) but most cue research and high speed videos deals primarily with deflection (which is a side spin issue not a top and bottom)
I wish that someone with high speed camera capability would quantify all of the different cue aspects and how they efect the cueball. Like how each shaft taper choice(pro semi pro ect.) effects deflection, top and bottom and how each shaft diameter effects deflection, top and bottom, how shafts solid vs low deflection effect the cueball reaction, how forward balance vs rear balance effect the shot (ect.).
Theres no such thing as "the perfect cue" but there is the perfect cue for you. My father is a golfer when he was younger he played with low flex shafts as he got older he now plays with more flexable shafts. The right club for him depends on his needs and how he plays at a particular time.
Pool is no different a young beginner may want a cue that adds alot of spin to the cueball where as a more experience player that has a more developed stroke might want a cue that decreases the spin.
Without ALL the different aspects of a cue quantifiied that effects playability how can a cue buyer make an informed decision on the right cue for you at a particular moment in his or her game.

 

[lfigueroa]

I'm experimenting with changing the weight on a cue to see what is ideal these days. I used to play with a 19.4 cue and I've been putting LEAD TAPE around the joint area to move it up to 20.5-21 oz. . . Does it matter a lot or a little where this LEAD TAPE is placed? Someone told me that the farther up above the wrap (towards the tip), the more the flex, thus the spin and possibly the deflection would be effected......Can anyone that has experience with this tell me the best way to add weight WITHOUT changing the playing characteristics? Thanks C J WILEY

The science on this was done along time ago (by guys that don't play anywhere near as well as you... but I digress) and as I recall it was found that any weight past the first eight inches of the shaft was immaterial. Basically, as I recall, the sound wave passes through the cue and then back up the cue shaft *long* after the cue ball has departed the tip. In fact, way back when, John McChesney of Shooters fame in KC did an experiment at one of his events where he covered up the joints of a number of cues and then had pros try and tell what kind of joint the cue had -- stainless, implex, wood-to-wood, ivory -- and no one could accurately tell.

Having said all that, changing the balance point could change the way you setup. And if you're not aware of what you're trying to do and why that could lead to unwanted consequences.

Lou Figueroa
but whadda I know

 

[CJ Wiley]

The science on this was done along time ago (by guys that don't play anywhere near as well as you... but I digress) and as I recall it was found that any weight past the first eight inches of the shaft was immaterial. Basically, as I recall, the sound wave passes through the cue and then back up the cue shaft *long* after the cue ball has departed the tip. In fact, way back when, John McChesney of Shooters fame in KC did an experiment at one of his events where he covered up the joints of a number of cues and then had pros try and tell what kind of joint the cue had -- stainless, implex, wood-to-wood, ivory -- and no one could accurately tell.

Having said all that, changing the balance point could change the way you setup. And if you're not aware of what you're trying to do and why that could lead to unwanted consequences.

Lou Figueroa
but whadda I know

I'm just experimenting to see what I like these days before I have a cue built...ie: cue weight, balance and flex...no big deal, it's done...thanks Lou

 

[One Pocket John]

CJ, I would suspect that the older we get that the more feel is required.

Meaning, that a young golfer would prefer steel club shafts. An older player would prefer graphite club shafts.

Just say'in :smile:

John

 

[CJ Wiley]

CJ, I would suspect that the older we get that the more feel is required.

Meaning, that a young golfer would prefer steel club shafts. An older player would prefer graphite club shafts.

Just say'in :smile:

John

I feel like a heavier cue is better for me now....my body's stronger than it was 15 years ago, so a 19.4 feels like it's just too light....that's why I'm experimenting so I can have one made that fits me NOW.