Changing pool starts by giving weaker players a chance at some $$$.

DoubleD said:
Better yet, let's make sure the bar or hall matches entry fees, everybody show up, get the money from the bar, call it a 32-way tie for first, give everybody twice their money back and leave.

That way EVERYBODY would feel good about themselves, nobody would have to go through the trauma of losing, everybody would get money and still go home early.

There is no other sport where amateurs feel like they deserve money. Why would this be the reason pool is 'dying'?

dld
Click to expand...

:thumbup:

Very funny! How's the pro tour doing?

I never said all players should get paid.



Pay out 25%-40% of the field and make it a fun event.

Oh...that's right, pool is not a game, it's a sport. LOL

Let's just take advantage of the lousy players...and I'm sure you want all of them to play in your tournament.

Just take the fun out of it and see how many people show up.

Oh...that's right, there is no pro tour. :eek:


I know...a tournament needs sponsors. This was a good one----

http://www.azbilliards.com/accustats/V1_N01.pdf


I was one out of the money and happy to get that far after winning only two matches.

Now if the winner would of gotten $7,000, I would of gotten in the money and would of been more happy.
 
Last edited:
DoubleD said:
Better yet, let's make sure the bar or hall matches entry fees, everybody show up, get the money from the bar, call it a 32-way tie for first, give everybody twice their money back and leave.

That way EVERYBODY would feel good about themselves, nobody would have to go through the trauma of losing, everybody would get money and still go home early.

There is no other sport where amateurs feel like they deserve money. Why would this be the reason pool is 'dying'?

dld
Click to expand...

His point is valid. He did not say pay everyone the same. He said pay more spots.

From the South Central Section of the PGA's Tournament Rules and Regulations (URL for this PDF)

"APPENDIX I: PRIZE FUND DISTRIBUTION
The following tables shall be used as a guide for the prize fund distribution for all South Central PGA Major Point
Earning Championships. The Section Representative may round these totals up or down at their discretion. For all other
events, 33% of the starting field should be paid. The Match Play Championship will have a separate prize fund
distribution. "

I have never played in a pool tournament that I know of which paid 1/3 of the field. The top players complain too much to allow this to happen.

Ken
 
poolguy4u said:
Let's just take advantage of the lousy players...and I'm sure you want all of them to play in your tournament.
Click to expand...

Take advantage of them, or hold their hands through life? They ought to know well before they put their money up that it's going to be a competition.

If they can't play, then it's time to suck it up and practice a bit or give me back all the money I spent learning and earning that "unfair advantage." Then they can have a spot. I've met players I couldn't beat. I didn't need a tissue.
 
Ghosst said:
Take advantage of them, or hold their hands through life? They ought to know well before they put their money up that it's going to be a competition.

If they can't play, then it's time to suck it up and practice a bit or give me back all the money I spent learning and earning that "unfair advantage." Then they can have a spot. I've met players I couldn't beat. I didn't need a tissue.
Click to expand...

:thumbup:

And this is why handicap leagues are booming and there is no pro tour.

Even the Pro-Am tours don't attract that many players. The tournaments are top heavy.

:smile:
 
poolguy4u said:
If you give them a chance to win their money back, more people will play.
Click to expand...

DoubleD said:
Better yet, let's make sure the bar or hall matches entry fees, everybody show up, get the money from the bar, call it a 32-way tie for first, give everybody twice their money back and leave.

Why would this be the reason pool is 'dying'?
Click to expand...

poolguy4u said:
How's the pro tour doing?

Let's just take advantage of the lousy players...and I'm sure you want all of them to play in your tournament.

Just take the fun out of it and see how many people show up.

Oh...that's right, there is no pro tour. :eek:
Click to expand...

Okie said:
I have never played in a pool tournament that I know of which paid 1/3 of the field. The top players complain too much to allow this to happen.
Click to expand...

Ghosst said:
If they can't play, then it's time to suck it up and practice a bit or give me back all the money I spent learning and earning that "unfair advantage." Then they can have a spot. I've met players I couldn't beat. I didn't need a tissue.
Click to expand...

poolguy4u said:
And this is why handicap leagues are booming and there is no pro tour.
Click to expand...

If I'm top dog and I throw myself a tournament every week, why the heck would anybody show up if they can have their own tournament without me? So they can be graced with my presence? They need to get away from their families and friends from 6pm to midnight, while getting in a whole dozen games?

If you're just going to complain about sitting around and jerking off by yourself, well, you've got to get up off your ass and give a little to get a little. Pool's no different.. there's a small percentage of players that want everybody to kiss their butts and "donate". Well, according to the numbers, about once a year is good enough for most people. If you want people to play with the rest of the year, grow some balls and put a spot out there. "Players" sit around saying the same damn thing about beginners.. "grow a pair" blah blah blah.. but they can't put their big boy pants on and do the same.

I'll play better players heads up, I'll ask for spots when I think they're needed, I'll give spots back when I don't think I need them, I'll give others spots when they're needed and sometimes I'll give up bigger spots than I want to get a little match. I don't know about everybody else, but I work for a living and have other stuff going on. If you think my life should revolve around paying somebody back for years spent sleeping under a pool table, you're fooling yourself.

Until there's many more people in this game, that attitude is going to drive people away. Hell, half of the people that had that attitude when I started wouldn't pull a dollar out now if they don't have the best of it. I don't even mind giving up money to somebody that makes me enjoy the game.. I loath giving it up to somebody that thinks they deserve it.

No handicapping? What's that laughing I hear.. oh.. the gambling world.
 
"I think I need a spot" (I'm fine with that)
"I want a spot" (Uncouth, but fine)
"I freaking demand a spot or you're not good enough to play me" (keep walkin kitten)

I don't mind giving a spot to someone and I'm no world beater. I had a friend get one in a tournament and she asked a group of us if she should take it. We all replied, "yes, take it while you can get it". If she'd won, none of us would have mentioned it. Her attitude doesn't bother me in the slightest.

If, on the other hand, she'd entered the tournament demanding a spot and refused to play without one she'd have been sitting around all night with her thumb somewhere dark.

As far as having pros at amateur events; I said it before, they don't make enough money to exclude them. But that doesn't mean they should enter, "Big Eddies 9-Ball Palace weekly tourney".

Would I say I kicked someone's ass when they had to give me a spot? No. I would however be quite happy to have placed 2nd with Orcullo in the field. There's a difference in there. Can you "spot" it?
 
Ghosst said:
"I think I need a spot" (I'm fine with that)
"I want a spot" (Uncouth, but fine)
"I freaking demand a spot or you're not good enough to play me" (keep walkin kitten)

I don't mind giving a spot to someone and I'm no world beater. I had a friend get one in a tournament and she asked a group of us if she should take it. We all replied, "yes, take it while you can get it". If she'd won, none of us would have mentioned it. Her attitude doesn't bother me in the slightest.

If, on the other hand, she'd entered the tournament demanding a spot and refused to play without one she'd have been sitting around all night with her thumb somewhere dark.

As far as having pros at amateur events; I said it before, they don't make enough money to exclude them. But that doesn't mean they should enter, "Big Eddies 9-Ball Palace weekly tourney".

Would I say I kicked someone's ass when they had to give me a spot? No. I would however be quite happy to have placed 2nd with Orcullo in the field. There's a difference in there. Can you "spot" it?
Click to expand...

This is what many people are getting at. It's not that they "demand" a spot, it's just that many people do not want to regularly waste their time at small tournaments. I don't think that the "Majors" should have spots at all. The large league tournaments have handicapping, either using their handicap system or breaking up the players into skill divisions. I see it as a pyramid system.. and without a constant source at the bottom to draw players to the top, there's never going to be much of a top. There will always be a few that will join in no matter what, but more people are needed than just a few. Atwell frequented the weeklies for a bit.. of course, there was either a limit put in place or he was kindly asked to refrain from robbing everybody.
 
Banks said:
I see it as a pyramid system.. and without a constant source at the bottom to draw players to the top, there's never going to be much of a top.

Atwell frequented the weeklies for a bit.. of course, there was either a limit put in place or he was kindly asked to refrain from robbing everybody.
Click to expand...

The first paragraph is what someone complained about; taking advantage of them because you know they are dead money. I don't take that attitude. It's an opponent. Shane, Orcullo, Jimmy Rae ... whoever. You're going to lose.

In the second, we have a good player here. I play him even. I don't want, ask for, or demand a spot. If I lose, I learn. If I won with a spot, I'd just have cheated. And where does that road lead? Suddenly you're in a big tournament without a spot and you get beaten up. It would have been better to deal with losing earlier on than to cry on a TAR stream.
 
Ghosst said:
In the second, we have a good player here. I play him even. I don't want, ask for, or demand a spot. If I lose, I learn. If I won with a spot, I'd just have cheated. And where does that road lead? Suddenly you're in a big tournament without a spot and you get beaten up. It would have been better to deal with losing earlier on than to cry on a TAR stream.
Click to expand...

I like to play the stronger players a game that gives me a leg up.. bank pool, of course. I played a good player, he ran 5 the first or second rack. After the first two racks, I asked for a ball, so we played 5-4. I ran 4 after he broke and beat him handily the second rack playing that way. I gave my spot back and ended up 3 down.

Where does that road lead? Heh.. well.. the way I look at it.. I can't wait until I'm the one giving up a spot. ;)

As for winning with a spot.. you either outran the odds or made a good game. Taking the 8 when it gives you 40% is still work.. taking the 8 when it gives you 80% is just taking the money. People that go to big tournaments and cry will still cry at small tournaments, they'll just have better excuses.
 
Last edited:
poolguy4u said:
:boring2:

I've been saying this for years now but no one listens. In a tournament, not everyone is playing for first or second place. They are not good enough.

So, make first and second place close to the same money then payout more places. Tournaments are always top heavy with the payout and it hurts the game of pool. Give the weaker shooter a chance to win their money back.

If the best shooters don't like it...good, then they don't have to play. Seems they are usually greedy and just want to take advantage of the weak anyway.

Most people play in tournaments to have fun and compete. If you give them a chance to win their money back, more people will play.
Click to expand...
I usually read a whole thread before I take a stance on the topic but this post is ridiculous.

Why have a tournament at all,maybe to just create business for the house?

Pool is war.One of the primary aspects of the game is the ability to constantly adjust and to asses weakness and strength of not only your opponent but yourself.

And another thing,the player that is better has ultimately invested way more than the guy getting the handicap,way more than a mere tourney entry fee.When the handicap guy is at the beach lookin' at the girls the player is paying the light bill of the hall maybe thinking of ways he can be better.BLOOD,SWEAT and TEARS and SACRIFICE.


Pools fun is not haha fun.It is not an Elks convention.

Handicaps fill a purpose but the better player is better for a reason and that should always be emphasized and not forgotten by those getting the spot.
 
JMuck said:
I usually read a whole thread before I take a stance on the topic but this post is ridiculous.

Why have a tournament at all,maybe to just create business for the house?

Pool is war.One of the primary aspects of the game is the ability to constantly adjust and to asses weakness and strength of not only your opponent but yourself.

And another thing,the player that is better has ultimately invested way more than the guy getting the handicap,way more than a mere tourney entry fee.When the handicap guy is at the beach lookin' at the girls the player is paying the light bill of the hall maybe thinking of ways he can be better.BLOOD,SWEAT and TEARS and SACRIFICE.


Pools fun is not haha fun.It is not an Elks convention.

Handicaps fill a purpose but the better player is better for a reason and that should always be emphasized and not forgotten by those getting the spot.
Click to expand...

:scratchhead:

How's you reading comprehension? Not one time did I ever mention the word handicap. No need to tell me how a person gets good.

I've been there...have you?:smile:
 
poolguy4u said:
:scratchhead:

How's you reading comprehension? Not one time did I ever mention the word handicap. No need to tell me how a person gets good.

I've been there...have you?:smile:
Click to expand...

Keep investing in getting "good" and maybe you will be able to see how weak your statements in this thread are.:smile:
 
Hadn't realized this thread had gotten so much attention. I started an AMA in the Main Forum. I'd prefer to start answering questions about The GRAND Tour and myself in that thread. Still learning myself how best to use these forums, but I hope by answering some of your questions I can clear up any confusion that I may have caused. Expect more soon...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
JMuck said:
And another thing,the player that is better has ultimately invested way more than the guy getting the handicap,way more than a mere tourney entry fee.When the handicap guy is at the beach lookin' at the girls the player is paying the light bill of the hall maybe thinking of ways he can be better.BLOOD,SWEAT and TEARS and SACRIFICE.
Click to expand...


:rolleyes:

For real...there are people with natural ability and people that need to practice to be good.

I know of a few people who picked up a stick and shot for only six months and were as good as people who were shooting for ten years.

I believe Allen Hopkins was one of them.:smile:

Unfortunately, I was one of those that needed to play or practice for a long time.:frown:
 
JMuck said:
I usually read a whole thread before I take a stance on the topic but this post is ridiculous.

Why have a tournament at all,maybe to just create business for the house?

Pool is war.One of the primary aspects of the game is the ability to constantly adjust and to asses weakness and strength of not only your opponent but yourself.

And another thing,the player that is better has ultimately invested way more than the guy getting the handicap,way more than a mere tourney entry fee.When the handicap guy is at the beach lookin' at the girls the player is paying the light bill of the hall maybe thinking of ways he can be better.BLOOD,SWEAT and TEARS and SACRIFICE.


Pools fun is not haha fun.It is not an Elks convention.

Handicaps fill a purpose but the better player is better for a reason and that should always be emphasized and not forgotten by those getting the spot.
Click to expand...

I agree with your thoughts on this, ridiculous is a good way to put it.
 
poolguy4u said:
:rolleyes:

For real...there are people with natural ability and people that need to practice to be good.

I know of a few people who picked up a stick and shot for only six months and were as good as people who were shooting for ten years.

I believe Allen Hopkins was one of them.:smile:

Unfortunately, I was one of those that needed to play or practice for a long time.:frown:
Click to expand...

GTP's mission is to give that new player something to be proud of sooner rather than later. It's new players that will be necessary for pool to survive, and with all of the competing interests it will take something that generates a great deal of buzz outside of the pool halls and bars to keep new players walking in the doors.

If you'd like to see how this is going to happen, visit the online home of Grand Tour Promotions. Here's the link...

https://sites.google.com/site/grandtourpromotions/home

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top