Chess clocks in pool

DaWizard

DaWizard

Well-known member
@JolietJames mentioned it in the US Open thread: how about using chess clocks to solve the extremely slow play in the early round?

For those who have never seen one:

What kind of time settings would be right for a tournament like the US Open early round?

Keep in mind that players need a couple seconds to walk to the clock after their shot. And if the flag falls: loss or foul?
 
DaWizard said:
@JolietJames mentioned it in the US Open thread: how about using chess clocks to solve the extremely slow play in the early round?

For those who have never seen one:

What kind of time settings would be right for a tournament like the US Open early round?

Keep in mind that players need a couple seconds to walk to the clock after their shot. And if the flag falls: loss or foul?
Click to expand...
This looks more confusing that no clock at all. US open needs refs/clocks in every rd.
 
Basically you have a set time and a increment. E.g.: 3mins + 40sec

The set time (3 minutes) starts counting down and after your shot and if you hit the clock you get +40 seconds.

You could set rules like "never have more than 3 minutes total" or "after 5 switches players get extra minutes".
 
garczar said:
This looks more confusing that no clock at all. US open needs refs/clocks in every rd.
Click to expand...

probably too expensive to have 28 refs with wages, lodging etc. maybe in vietnam they can afford it and have money over for the prize fund lol
 
DaWizard said:
Basically you have a set time and a increment. E.g.: 3mins + 40sec

The set time (3 minutes) starts counting down and after your shot and if you hit the clock you get +40 seconds.

You could set rules like "never have more than 3 minutes total" or "after 5 switches players get extra minutes".
Click to expand...
Maybe its your wording but it makes zero sense to me. Don't see it ever happening. Probably why i don't play chess. Can't figure out the fkng clock.
 
DaWizard said:
@JolietJames mentioned it in the US Open thread: how about using chess clocks to solve the extremely slow play in the early round?

For those who have never seen one:

What kind of time settings would be right for a tournament like the US Open early round?

Keep in mind that players need a couple seconds to walk to the clock after their shot. And if the flag falls: loss or foul?
Click to expand...
30 minutes base time per player + 15-20 seconds per shot added. A well-played match that viewers want to watch should be no more than 90 minutes for a race to 9. The time above seems like it would result in that kind of total match time.

Fall of flag always = loss of game, irrespective of score. Chess players don't get to win if they run out of time with a material advantage of a Queen and Rook. And plenty of examples (at least at lower level play) of a player who walked into a mate or forced draw with a massive material advantage, because of self-inflicted time pressure. Time management would be part of the winning formula.

I maintain that time pressure in the latter part of a match would be fantastic for televised matches. I kind of think that intentionally setting the base time to be shorter for this reason might be the way to go. Maybe 25 minutes?
 
ShortBusRuss said:
5 year old kids seem to be figure them out just fine, so as someone else on the forum said... Pool players at least stand a chance.

And they arereally not confusing. You hit your clock after your shot, and the opponent's starts. That's literally it.
Click to expand...
I don't get the '+' time/extra time deal. Truth be told lots of 5yr olds give me the 6ball figuring stuff out.
 
ShortBusRuss said:
1. Yes they do. Lots of chess players stand up occasionally while they play, rules allowing.

2. Which is why the time to walk back to one's seat is allowed for in setting the base time + increment.
Click to expand...

The issue I see is how to account for runs. Assume I manage to run 6 balls. My clock shouldn’t run continuously during my inning as that’s punishment for making balls. I should get a +30 or whatever for every ball I make. Chess clocks aren’t really setup for that, the shooter would have to remember to walk over and double click (not single click) the clock after each pot.
 
kling&allen said:
The issue I see is how to account for runs. Assume I manage to run 6 balls. My clock shouldn’t run continuously during my inning as that’s punishment for making balls. I should get a +30 or whatever for every ball I make. Chess clocks aren’t really setup for that, the shooter would have to remember to walk over and double click (not single click) the clock after each pot.
Click to expand...
This is all taken into account by capturing statistics on average match time taken for faster hill-hill sets, with a bit of safety thrown in. Add a bit of time to that to allow for a bit of leeway for more methodical players, but not allowing a lot of leeway to think for 2 minutes+ on a shot multiple times in a set. The increment's purpose is make sure player ALWAYS has "x" seconds to get to the table, make a plan, and execute, not to add time to the clock total. If they play fast it has that result, but not the primary purpose.

It is just not an issue. There is a lot of upside to this for Matchroom, as it is easier to promote players who play fast, and good. I am thinking a possible solution is to go back to 4 1/4" pockets, but to implement chess clocks with a bit less time. Allow the players a bit more freedom to shoot instead of playing safe so much, but make sure that time pressure is a factor if you agonize too much over your choices.
 
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kling&allen said:
The issue I see is how to account for runs. Assume I manage to run 6 balls. My clock shouldn’t run continuously during my inning as that’s punishment for making balls. I should get a +30 or whatever for every ball I make. Chess clocks aren’t really setup for that, the shooter would have to remember to walk over and double click (not single click) the clock after each pot.
Click to expand...
Good point(s).
 
ShortBusRuss said:
30 minutes base time per player + 15-20 seconds per shot added. A well-played match that viewers want to watch should be no more than 90 minutes for a race to 9. The time above seems like it would result in that kind of total match time.

Fall of flag always = loss of game, irrespective of score. Chess players don't get to win if they run out of time with a material advantage of a Queen and Rook. And plenty of examples (at least at lower level play) of a player who walked into a mate or forced draw with a massive material advantage, because of self-inflicted time pressure. Time management would be part of the winning formula.

I maintain that time pressure in the latter part of a match would be fantastic for televised matches. I kind of think that intentionally setting the base time to be shorter for this reason might be the way to go. Maybe 25 minutes?
Click to expand...
I was thinking of resetting the clock for each rack.

But you want to do it for the entire match. I do fear we could get very very rushed, ugly games. On the other hand.. that's what happens if you can't manage your time.
 
DaWizard said:
I was thinking of resetting the clock for each rack.

But you want to do it for the entire match. I do fear we could get very very rushed, ugly games. On the other hand.. that's what happens if you can't manage your time.
Click to expand...
Why not just 40sec/shot from the time they get to the table?? NO extensions. 40sec is plenty.
 
kling&allen said:
The issue I see is how to account for runs. Assume I manage to run 6 balls. My clock shouldn’t run continuously during my inning as that’s punishment for making balls. I should get a +30 or whatever for every ball I make. Chess clocks aren’t really setup for that, the shooter would have to remember to walk over and double click (not single click) the clock after each pot.
Click to expand...
The base time would solve that. If you take, say, 5 minutes as base time:
You hit the clock and time is counting down. You break and if you run you have about 4:30 to run the rack.

Maybe 6 minutes would be better? I think pros in the US Open should be allowed to take a MINUTE somewhere in the rack.
 
garczar said:
Why not just 40sec/shot from the time they get to the table?? NO extensions. 40sec is plenty.
Click to expand...
Because certain shots DO take more than 40 seconds to "solve the problem". And there is no slow rampup of pressure as the match goes on longer. This increase of pressure can lead to very dramatic mistakes/comebacks, which makes for good TV.

And good TV is the entire point. More TV viewers = more advertising dollars = more money for the players.
 
DaWizard said:
The base time would solve that. If you take, say, 5 minutes as base time:
You hit the clock and time is counting down. You break and if you run you have about 4:30 to run the rack.

Maybe 6 minutes would be better? I think pros in the US Open should be allowed to take a MINUTE somewhere in the rack.
Click to expand...
Shot clocks are already in use and players deal with them ok. These clocks will never be used in pro tournament play.
 
DaWizard said:
I was thinking of resetting the clock for each rack.

But you want to do it for the entire match. I do fear we could get very very rushed, ugly games. On the other hand.. that's what happens if you can't manage your time.
Click to expand...
If the base time bank + increment is configured correctly, the total time played will be the same as your average, well-played, snappily played set. The only time pressure incurred will self-inflicted by the players through slow play. Or by missing a crapload of shots while taking the full increment + time out of the base time bank.

If players cannot "git er dun" within 90-105 minutes, maybe they should not be in the tournament. They definitely should not be "winning" the tournament.
 
ShortBusRuss said:
5 year old kids seem to be figure them out just fine, so as someone else on the forum said... Pool players at least stand a chance.

And they arereally not confusing. You hit your clock after your shot, and the opponent's starts. That's literally it.
Click to expand...
Have you yourself, ever used a chess clock for an entire game of anything?
 
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