I like these game clocks they use in ultimate pool
Chess clocks in pool
- Thread starter DaWizard
- Start date
I like these game clocks they use in ultimate pool
I have played tournament chess, yes. Got the top of the line chess clock packed away in a cabinet in my game room, and a nice Staunton set..
And I see where you are going with this. The "incovenience" to the players. Which I care not a whit for, if trying different things leads to more viewers. The time pressure applied to a slow player later in the match would be great fun to watch, for me personally.
And using a chess clock means the tournament matches finish on time, every time. Which is good for scheduling televised matches, without having to edit matches. There are a lot of different reasons a chess clock type setup could drive viewership. Who cares what old school, hardened gamblers and tournament players think about it? What they have been doing has not been working.
Why bother with chess clocks? Use a LAN. All players register their phone, it redirects them to the live scoring system and ref request system.
Emily has access to all data from her phone to see if any event tables made ref requests and she can monitor the situation.
The players would benefit because the phone will provide rules, scoring information and a messaging system for refs or the TD.
The players will compete in the best possible situation, if that means she has to personally oversee each ref or table digitally then MR can apply the technology.
MR is growing and Emily is finding out the lack of experienced pool staff. In addition refs should have to make a formal written remark as opposed to a hasty verbal response. In a well organized football league, the refs stopped announcing the penalties opting instead to group message it and apply the yard changes without protest. The gameplay speeded up and injuries were reduced. Point of the story is it takes a lot of trying to find what works. Everyone acts like perfection happens all the time everytime.
Emily is running the production. "chess clocks" its like complaining about the color of the ball.
Emily has access to all data from her phone to see if any event tables made ref requests and she can monitor the situation.
The players would benefit because the phone will provide rules, scoring information and a messaging system for refs or the TD.
The players will compete in the best possible situation, if that means she has to personally oversee each ref or table digitally then MR can apply the technology.
MR is growing and Emily is finding out the lack of experienced pool staff. In addition refs should have to make a formal written remark as opposed to a hasty verbal response. In a well organized football league, the refs stopped announcing the penalties opting instead to group message it and apply the yard changes without protest. The gameplay speeded up and injuries were reduced. Point of the story is it takes a lot of trying to find what works. Everyone acts like perfection happens all the time everytime.
Emily is running the production. "chess clocks" its like complaining about the color of the ball.
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Neither Inconvenience, nor hardened gamblers has anything in the least to do with the problem, I'm not sure how you even came to that conclusion.
I would vote one minute per "race to" with a 30 second increment. So for a race to nine, nine minutes + 30 second increment. If a player has zero time left, it's a time foul and BIH for the opponent and they get the 30 second increment.
Benefits of this set up:
- if a player is low on time, this is basically a 30 second shot clock so a player is never too rushed
- BIH is a big enough incentive to not get low on time
- no complaints about a player winning solely on time
Benefits of this set up:
- if a player is low on time, this is basically a 30 second shot clock so a player is never too rushed
- BIH is a big enough incentive to not get low on time
- no complaints about a player winning solely on time
Don't bring your cobweb one pocket game to the 9 ball match. 30 seconds or ball in hand.
How to delay the game and make it boring;
Lay just the tip of your cue on the table and move the butt around to check the angle. Shake your head slightly left and right, as if it's an impossible shot that only a champion could make. Pick your cue up and remove the 4 pieces of microscopic lint that lays in the cue ball path.
It's getting sticky in here. Go to your chair and shake a little baby powder on your bridge hand. Work it into the shaft before air stroking 4 strokes
behind the shot. Drop down on the shot like a programmed robot and form your bridge. Nope, doesn't feel right...get off the shot, stand up and look again. Looks like you'd be more comfortable with your 6" extension. Go to your chair, unzip your bag and grab the extension. Face the crowd and show them how quickly it threads in, saving time. Get down on the shot and ready to shoot. Oh no, there is a tiny Simonis hair on the ball. Ask the ref if he can clean it.
To save time while he's cleaning the cue ball, start your chalking ritual. Go flat across the top and circumnavigate the tip with little dabs to completely cover all leather. Lay the chalk down. Ok, ref has cleaned the ball. Time to rechalk that tip and stroke into the air a few more times.
How to delay the game and make it boring;
Lay just the tip of your cue on the table and move the butt around to check the angle. Shake your head slightly left and right, as if it's an impossible shot that only a champion could make. Pick your cue up and remove the 4 pieces of microscopic lint that lays in the cue ball path.
It's getting sticky in here. Go to your chair and shake a little baby powder on your bridge hand. Work it into the shaft before air stroking 4 strokes
behind the shot. Drop down on the shot like a programmed robot and form your bridge. Nope, doesn't feel right...get off the shot, stand up and look again. Looks like you'd be more comfortable with your 6" extension. Go to your chair, unzip your bag and grab the extension. Face the crowd and show them how quickly it threads in, saving time. Get down on the shot and ready to shoot. Oh no, there is a tiny Simonis hair on the ball. Ask the ref if he can clean it.
To save time while he's cleaning the cue ball, start your chalking ritual. Go flat across the top and circumnavigate the tip with little dabs to completely cover all leather. Lay the chalk down. Ok, ref has cleaned the ball. Time to rechalk that tip and stroke into the air a few more times.
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DaWizard
Well-known member
I would give more per shot. The shot clock for last 16 is controlled by an official. A chess clock is controlled by the player so you need some extra seconds to walk to the clock.
Also players in my opinion should be allowed to take a little time. Just not ages. Watching rushed matches full of mistakes is the other extreme.
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DaWizard
Well-known member
All together it needs testing. First a bit of research how long players take in a game with a fair tempo, not too fast, not too slow.
The translate it to timesettings and test again to see if it works for the players and is fun to watch. And are there any odd situations where the clock needs to be stopped? Other unexpected stuff?
Ball in hand when the flag falls sounds like a fair punishment in the rack. Just like running down the shotclock.
The translate it to timesettings and test again to see if it works for the players and is fun to watch. And are there any odd situations where the clock needs to be stopped? Other unexpected stuff?
Ball in hand when the flag falls sounds like a fair punishment in the rack. Just like running down the shotclock.
40sec shot clock would be fine. 40sec from when they get TO the table. If you can't decide/play in 40sec you shouldn't be in the event.
Nobody shoots from their chair either, what was the point??
I think you are greatly simplifying how it would work, and not seeing the advantages. It would be some sort of button by each player's chair that they tap when they go back to their seat. The image you have of chess clocks might be from watching blitz games. Set up for pool competition, there would be plenty of time to tap your clock, without "banging" your clock.
And tournament matches would finish on time, every time. A chess clock implementation at Derby would make that tournament run like clockwork.
TV matches would have a certain element of drama injected, ig a player got in time trouble, that could played up by commentators. Same with live play. Better players could be handicapped with time, instead of ball/game handicaps (or some combination of both).
There's a lot to like, there.
Chess has a time per game, pool should have a time per shot. You can buy all kinds of clocks, they should be able to make ones that work like pool clocks. A tablet would work, and that could have an app programmed any way you want. You can buy cheap tablets for under $100. The timer countdown would be large and easy to see.
The clock/tablet would be at a center table between the chairs of the two players. There’s a 10 sec sound, and you need to hit the button before the final buzzer sounds or it’s a foul. Yes you’d need to go hit the button after each shot. And things could get ridiculous with people rushing to hit the clock before it buzzes, but it would still be better than no shot clock.
The clock/tablet would be at a center table between the chairs of the two players. There’s a 10 sec sound, and you need to hit the button before the final buzzer sounds or it’s a foul. Yes you’d need to go hit the button after each shot. And things could get ridiculous with people rushing to hit the clock before it buzzes, but it would still be better than no shot clock.
DaWizard
Well-known member
I envisioned it like a chess clock in between players' chairs, on a table.
So when the balls stoppen rolling(!)* you hit the clock and that's the moment the opponent may shoot.
*this could create a bit of a fight. "the balls where rolling!"
There are plenty of apps, even for phone, that work perfectly.
So when the balls stoppen rolling(!)* you hit the clock and that's the moment the opponent may shoot.
*this could create a bit of a fight. "the balls where rolling!"
There are plenty of apps, even for phone, that work perfectly.
DaWizard
Well-known member
Your clock starts running the moment your opponent hits the clock.
So I imagine people getting up from their chairs and approaching the table like they do now.
I played with a chess clock one time.
Our room was popping in the late 90's with pool players. There was a chess board in the room, and a few of the pool players were super good at chess. We all started playing chess eventually as another thing to bet/brag on. A few of us chipped in and ended up buying a mechanical clock just to fool around with and have some variety.
My buddy and I were both a bit on the slow side at shooting pool. I actually thought he was way slower than me, and he thought I was way slower than him. So I proposed to him "let's use the chess clock". Whoever used more of the clock would pay the table time. He agreed.
To add, I don't recall him in particular ever playing chess.
We played something like a race to 5 or 7. He kept forgetting to press the button. I would remind him sometimes. Other times I'd just sit until he realized. I was trying to push his buttons I guess. I wouldn't do that today, but I was only 20 or so then. He became furious at the whole premise and quit and stormed off.
Our room was popping in the late 90's with pool players. There was a chess board in the room, and a few of the pool players were super good at chess. We all started playing chess eventually as another thing to bet/brag on. A few of us chipped in and ended up buying a mechanical clock just to fool around with and have some variety.
My buddy and I were both a bit on the slow side at shooting pool. I actually thought he was way slower than me, and he thought I was way slower than him. So I proposed to him "let's use the chess clock". Whoever used more of the clock would pay the table time. He agreed.
To add, I don't recall him in particular ever playing chess.
We played something like a race to 5 or 7. He kept forgetting to press the button. I would remind him sometimes. Other times I'd just sit until he realized. I was trying to push his buttons I guess. I wouldn't do that today, but I was only 20 or so then. He became furious at the whole premise and quit and stormed off.
Time per shot, with players hitting their own clock, simply won't work. It would severely interrupt the player's rhythym. Plus, it is stupid to force a player to walk back to their chair every shot. It also allows two hacks that can't hit the end rail to have a 4 hour match, as long as they complete each shot in the per-shot time period.
The precise way to do a chess clock implementation is to gather statistics on how many INNINGS the average pro match takes. Along with the TIME of a well-played, snappy match, with a decent amount of safety play.
Then, give players a per-inning time bonus to be added after they hit their clock of say, 30 seconds... Multiply that by the average amount of innings pro matches take, then subtract that time from the average time of well-played match, and the remainder is a time amount that will be given to the player at the beinning of the match.
It sounds complicated, but all this will be invisible to the player, and only needs to be worked out by tournament organizer.
Example:
Well played, snappy matches have been determined to take 1 hour, 20 minutes for snappy, well-played match with some safety thrown in. Make the target match time 1 hour, 30 minutes to make it nice and round, and allow for variance in play speed, and odd problems that crop up in the match.
Average innings for same type match is determined to be 30 innings. (Total spitball here, and may be way off the mark.) Innings are only counted "in" game, and don't span racks to allow for racking.
Give each player a 30 second bonus per inning, to be added to their time. 30 seconds x 2 players × 30 innings = 1800 seconds = 30 minutes.
Subtract 30 minutes from average match time = 1 hour to be split between players equally.
Each player starts with 30 minutes on their clock, and gets the 30 second bonus every time they travel back to their seat and hit their clock. EVERY match is completed within 90 minutes, minus racking time. (In review, this is technically not correct. See my addon comment below to address this.) Come to think of it, you can actually let the time continue while the player racks on their inning. Doesn't make a difference, as the average time of match played contains this racking time.
There is the idea that some players are gonna greatly exceed the average per match innings, thereby delaying the match due to getting the per-shot bonus time. Easy fix. Mandate that the match cannot go past 2 hours, and if it does, the guy with less time automatically loses at the 2 hour mark. Or simply give each player the full time bank at the beginning of the match, and if your "flag drops" as they say in chess, you lose. Let players decide how to spend that time. If you have managed to get far ahead by abusing the clock, better hope your opponent doesn't have a late stage flash of inspiration and start putting you in real trouble that you have to think your way out of when you are short of time. Might lead to multiple mistakes that turn a match around. Great for TV/stream drama.
The cool thing about this? You don't even need a timekeeper in a televised match. Just hook up the clock display to the televised feed.
Any player who drags it out like Chang is gonna be in a lot of trouble.
ShortBusRuss: I just don’t get it. There’s nothing wrong with long games, if there’s lots of interesting back and forth. In fact, they’re better than quick ones. People just don’t like to watch players stare at the table for several minutes. If each shot is 20 sec or so, it’s so much easier to watch.
I’m thinking of the early matches at Matchroom events. If it’s an amateur league or local weekend tournament, sure, give it a try. I know Bob Jewett has used your approach.
I’m thinking of the early matches at Matchroom events. If it’s an amateur league or local weekend tournament, sure, give it a try. I know Bob Jewett has used your approach.
I’m a tech minded person and would welcome solutions such as clocks, visual camera motion detection systems, etc.
That said, I think for these high profile MR events (early rounds) Emily could simply have a players meeting and stress how important it is for a good fan experience for each player to show a sense of urgency each shot.
Every single pro, and amateur, can regulate their own speed.
That said, I think for these high profile MR events (early rounds) Emily could simply have a players meeting and stress how important it is for a good fan experience for each player to show a sense of urgency each shot.
Every single pro, and amateur, can regulate their own speed.