Hierovision said:
I would check with Varney Cues on here. I have 2 of Varney's jump/break cues. You cant go wrong with one of his break jump cues. Heres my Varney review: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=32668
choosing a break cue
- Thread starter berlowmj
- Start date
I would check with Varney Cues on here. I have 2 of Varney's jump/break cues. You cant go wrong with one of his break jump cues. Heres my Varney review: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=32668
The same applies to baseball bats. I was a stubborn little slugger in grade school and wanted the heavy bats. I tried a lighter bat once and that proved it beyond any doubt for me personally.
I use a 19.5 or thereabouts for breaking and it definitely feels better than my 21 oz. Viking which I used to break with.
I ordered the Viking a few years ago and still play with it... can't wait to get my 19 from Varney
I can't get it soon enough
I use a 19.5 or thereabouts for breaking and it definitely feels better than my 21 oz. Viking which I used to break with.
I ordered the Viking a few years ago and still play with it... can't wait to get my 19 from Varney
I can't get it soon enough
Excellent point - well said.VIProfessor said:
I will add my 2 cents here; cb speed goes up linearly with cue speed, that is, twice the cue speed = twice the cb speed. But twice the weight at the same speed does not = twice the cb speed; in fact the maximum cb speed is twice the cue speed and that would only be attainable with no loss of energy in the collision and an infinitely heavy cue.
Steve
Break cues
A break cue is an investment, and price doesn't not always equal quality.
How much are you willing to invest in your game? Do you just settle or do you want more from your game. Can you run out, but just can't get a good break most of the time so you can?
Depending on how you answered the questions, and depending on if you are willing to put some work into your break, then a break cue may or may not be for you.
If you are strong (and you know if you are or not), and coordinated, then moving a break cue should not be that big of a problem. Most speed lost in breaking is due to technique.
Personally, I like the phenolic ferrule/tip for breaking and jumping. It puts the snap into your break, and I have actually slowed my break down from before I had a break cue. It allows me to concentrate on technique and accuracy of hit, which improves my consistency in breaking.
If you are a little unsure what to do, just buy one of the J&J break/jump cues from Chrisonline (I highly recommend him - excellent service) for $60, shipping included like I did (my 2nd J&J although 1st from different supplier), and try it for awhile. $60 is pretty cheap, and I think you will be surprised with it. Plus, it has a 14mm tip, which is better for breaking and jumping, improves accuracy.
I have found that if you stay within a quarter size of dead center on a cue ball when hitting it with the break cue, it does just fine.
BTW, I play with a 20.2 oz and my break cue is 19.5 oz.
A break cue is an investment, and price doesn't not always equal quality.
How much are you willing to invest in your game? Do you just settle or do you want more from your game. Can you run out, but just can't get a good break most of the time so you can?
Depending on how you answered the questions, and depending on if you are willing to put some work into your break, then a break cue may or may not be for you.
If you are strong (and you know if you are or not), and coordinated, then moving a break cue should not be that big of a problem. Most speed lost in breaking is due to technique.
Personally, I like the phenolic ferrule/tip for breaking and jumping. It puts the snap into your break, and I have actually slowed my break down from before I had a break cue. It allows me to concentrate on technique and accuracy of hit, which improves my consistency in breaking.
If you are a little unsure what to do, just buy one of the J&J break/jump cues from Chrisonline (I highly recommend him - excellent service) for $60, shipping included like I did (my 2nd J&J although 1st from different supplier), and try it for awhile. $60 is pretty cheap, and I think you will be surprised with it. Plus, it has a 14mm tip, which is better for breaking and jumping, improves accuracy.
I have found that if you stay within a quarter size of dead center on a cue ball when hitting it with the break cue, it does just fine.
BTW, I play with a 20.2 oz and my break cue is 19.5 oz.
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Break cues
I agree with your assessment on break cues. I've tried many different cues to break with and different weights also.
I tried a heavy break cue and I didn't get the speed on my stroke that I get with a 19oz or less break cue. Around 19ozs seems to work well for me and I concentrate on a smooth stroke to hit the one ball solid more than on a maximum power stroke where I lose the cue ball more often. If the balls are racked tightly they will open up with a nice smooth stroke.
I use a phenolic ferrule/tip shaft on my break cue and it works well for me, but I think a regular shaft with a hard leather tip will work well also and it's easier to control the cue ball with the leather tip IMO.
ioCross said:
I agree with your assessment on break cues. I've tried many different cues to break with and different weights also.
I tried a heavy break cue and I didn't get the speed on my stroke that I get with a 19oz or less break cue. Around 19ozs seems to work well for me and I concentrate on a smooth stroke to hit the one ball solid more than on a maximum power stroke where I lose the cue ball more often. If the balls are racked tightly they will open up with a nice smooth stroke.
I use a phenolic ferrule/tip shaft on my break cue and it works well for me, but I think a regular shaft with a hard leather tip will work well also and it's easier to control the cue ball with the leather tip IMO.
RiverCity said:Werent you given yours for free?
Chuck
Well, this is true...and I am grateful to Charlie for the gift...totally unexpected, and very much appreciated.
I had been considering purchasing one beforehand, just didn't have the available disposable income to do it...because I had heard great things, and had gotten to try one out. Perhaps what I should have said was, in my opinion, this break cue is worth the price...just in the additional time it allows you to stay at the table alone. Seems to drop balls like it's nothing.
Lisa
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I'm wondering if anyone here has tried both a varney J/B and an x-breaker?
I would be curious as well.
May be Tiffany Nelson?Hierovision said:
Tiffany Nelson later introduced Kelly Fisher to the X Breaker, for that I really appreciate.
About leather tip, we have a special leather tip that we invented. I am building a X breaker with this new X leather tip for Yang of Chinese Taipei now.
This leather tip is almost as hard as a linen phenolic tip(if you press with your nail, you will not be able to leave any mark on the surface of the tip), yet it is made of leather. About chipping, I have not had any complain regarding that yet, mind you, I only build this for pro players who were playing on the IPT when I first started.
Richard
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VIProfessor said:
Allow me to interject here; not to interrupt the complex meeting of scientific minds but to offer a converse opinion.
Anyone who tells you that you have to use a lighter cue is an idiot.
Anyone who tells you that you have to use a heavier cue is an idiot.
Science has proven that dogs' mouths are 98% cleaner than humans but I should hope that nobody here contends that we should just stop brushing our teeth altogether and just lick our own asses instead.
Break with the cue that is comfortable for you and don't let any popular theory mumbo jumbo put the hoodoo on you. I break with a 23oz cue and not a day goes by that some old timer or young blood doesn't look at me like I brought a Hustler to Lilith fair. It's comfortable for me, and it works for me.
Listen all you want to opinions but at the end of the day the only one that amounts to anything in this matter is your own.
-Matt
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MattRDavis said:
I agree 100%. What I believe started out a couple of decades ago as "don't discount using a lighter cue for breaking" or "a heavier cue isn't always the best for breaking" has turned into "lighter is better." Lighter isn't better necessarily. The optimum break cue for anyone has everything to do with the individual and how he breaks. That could mean that the optimul break cue could be lighter OR heavier depending on the individual.
And everytime someone quotes an energy equation from Physics 101, invariably something from Physics 102 will contradict it.
Fred
The way I see it, this situation:
Someone walks into your local poolhall and sees you breaking with a 22oz break cue. They say, "Don't you know studies have shown that breaking with a lighter cue gives you a better break?"
Is equivalent to this situation:
Someone sits next to you in the cafeteria and sees you eating a ham sandwich with Swiss cheese. They say, "Don't you know studies have shown that ham sandwiches with American cheese are more tasty?"
In both situations the indicated alternative is very obviously a personal preference.
-Matt
Someone walks into your local poolhall and sees you breaking with a 22oz break cue. They say, "Don't you know studies have shown that breaking with a lighter cue gives you a better break?"
Is equivalent to this situation:
Someone sits next to you in the cafeteria and sees you eating a ham sandwich with Swiss cheese. They say, "Don't you know studies have shown that ham sandwiches with American cheese are more tasty?"
In both situations the indicated alternative is very obviously a personal preference.
-Matt
I'm not pushing any dogma--just offering information
I believe that a bit of clarification may be in order. If you read my post carefully you will see that I suggested that ultimately personal preference carries the day in cue selection. You will also notice that my statement was that the player MAY do better with a lighter break cue, and that I repeatedly used the terms "most of us" or "most people" to qualify my statments. Finally, you will note that my comment did not address the matter of which is the BEST weight for any player, but simply addressed the matter of achieving maximum speed. We all know that there are factors other than cue ball speed that determine the outcome of the break shot. Depending on how a player breaks, what he may need is to actually slow the swing and the speed down in order to achieve more control and accuracy.
The point is that I am not attempting to advocate or impose rigid criteria for break cue weight, and I certainly do not wish to become involved in a lengthy "elbow drop vs. set-pause-freeze" type debate (you know the one I mean). I believe that we have both seen enough pool played to know that there are many different physical approaches to the game and that there are, in fact, very few hard and fast rules as to how each individual player should stroke the ball and thus, what equipment is best for him/her. What works for one player might not work for another. We must acknowledge, however, that both theory and emprical data support the contention that MOST people generate greater cue ball speed with a 18-20 oz. cue than with a 21-23 oz. cue. Don't take my word for it--if you can get your hands on a radar gun you can conduct your own experiments with various players. In the end, though, we certainly agree that it comes down to one thing--what's comfortable and works for you!
Peace,
VIProfessor
Cornerman said:
I believe that a bit of clarification may be in order. If you read my post carefully you will see that I suggested that ultimately personal preference carries the day in cue selection. You will also notice that my statement was that the player MAY do better with a lighter break cue, and that I repeatedly used the terms "most of us" or "most people" to qualify my statments. Finally, you will note that my comment did not address the matter of which is the BEST weight for any player, but simply addressed the matter of achieving maximum speed. We all know that there are factors other than cue ball speed that determine the outcome of the break shot. Depending on how a player breaks, what he may need is to actually slow the swing and the speed down in order to achieve more control and accuracy.
The point is that I am not attempting to advocate or impose rigid criteria for break cue weight, and I certainly do not wish to become involved in a lengthy "elbow drop vs. set-pause-freeze" type debate (you know the one I mean). I believe that we have both seen enough pool played to know that there are many different physical approaches to the game and that there are, in fact, very few hard and fast rules as to how each individual player should stroke the ball and thus, what equipment is best for him/her. What works for one player might not work for another. We must acknowledge, however, that both theory and emprical data support the contention that MOST people generate greater cue ball speed with a 18-20 oz. cue than with a 21-23 oz. cue. Don't take my word for it--if you can get your hands on a radar gun you can conduct your own experiments with various players. In the end, though, we certainly agree that it comes down to one thing--what's comfortable and works for you!
Peace,
VIProfessor
VIProfessor said:
Absolutely, I agree. I didn't mean to single you out by quoting you above but I thought it was a decent springboard for conversation, and I certainly didn't mean to offend.
The gentleman had already expressed that with a 21oz cue he had better control and equal power so I wanted to let him know that other people had had similar experiences.
-Matt
MattRDavis said:
No problem, bro! After all, we're all a bunch of pool addicts seeking the Holy Grail of dead stroke, so we've got to hang together--or hang separately.
Peace,
VIProfessor