Chronicles of a C Player

8

8ballguy

New member
Greetings gentlemen, long time reader first time poster. I am in need of some advice.

Over the last year i have begun to run out more consistently, or should i say i have developed a habit of the dreaded failed run out syndrome, but finish off the odd one here or there.

I am reading the table and executing with much more proficiency but still suffer from the common fundamental flaws that players at my level struggle with. These i feel i have a good understanding of and have altered my practice time to work them out.

Some of you might laugh at this request but i find my greatest weakness is when more then 4 or 5 of my balls are at the same end of the table. The most elementary paths i can see but any more then three balls and i simply do not have the knowledge or experience to choose what shot to take first. Especially if say the target ball is on the dot, or more back to wards center table, i just cant see the paths

I have no issues going from one side of the table to the other, infact i enjoy it.

So i find myself just attempting to take the path of least resistance but i will guarantee i screw up and leave myself hooked or piss poor shape. the odd time it works.

If i may ask
Is there a general rule when clearing out one end if the table?
Do you work from the end (short) rail out?
Do you work first the furthest from the rail and then in?
Do you clear out the middle first?, or the balls on the long rail balls first?
Does anyone know some drills that would help?


Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thank you.
 
Welcome to the forums!

First, you must recognize the trouble balls and go after those early as possible, these being balls on the rail or close together. these trouble balls will most likely be harder to get position on and going after them early leaves other balls on the table for options, if you wait until you have 1 ball left to get on your truble ball(s) then your options are deminished greatly.

Hope this helps.

Kev
 
I am now a C player who just started enjoying pool again after 15 years off. And I am slowly trying to claw my way back to the letters at the beginning of the alphabet.

I know your question is predominantly how to play the balls off but these are the things that help me the most...

Try to keep the shape as simple as possible given your level of cue ball control. Pick an exact spot where you want whitey to wind up; don't play general shape.

Don't try to showboat perfect shape when a less perfect shape ensures making the shot at hand and leaving you a makeable ball on the next shot.

If it doesn't feel right don't shoot it. Regroup whatever is off and settle in again.

Concentrate. Make a mental note of the shots you usually miss (balls late in the rack, easy shots and heaven forbid bih shots) and concentrate more on those shots to where you are making them consistently.

When you are practicing by yourself, re-shoot the shots you miss.

Watch better players. Or even better, play better players and see how they play off the balls.
 
Last edited:
And 2 other points...don't overlook playing your shape "underneath" for shots into the side pockets and the one that many weaker players avoid...the short shape on the long ball back up into the head corners.

You will generally be better off playing shorter, more exact shape on longer shots than playing the longer, more complicated shape paths on what will be a shorter shot on the next ball.
 
I'm curious...how do you know if you are a C or a D player....if there is such a thing as a D player...just curious.
 
leehayes said:
I'm curious...how do you know if you are a C or a D player....if there is such a thing as a D player...just curious.
Click to expand...
D player won't beat the 3-ball ghost I think.
C player might be even money with the 4-ball ghost.
C+ or B- is even with the 5-ball ghost .
B player is probably even with the 7-ball ghost.
A player is even money to beat the 9-ball ghost.
Shortstop beats the 9-ball ghost.
Pros run out 70%+ will ball in hand on the one ball.
 
JoeyInCali said:
D player won't beat the 3-ball ghost I think.
C player might be even money with the 4-ball ghost.
C+ or B- is even with the 5-ball ghost .
B player is probably even with the 7-ball ghost.
A player is even money to beat the 9-ball ghost.
Shortstop beats the 9-ball ghost.
Pros run out 70%+ will ball in hand on the one ball.
Click to expand...

Thanks Joey...I figured I was around a C but wasn't sure how it was rated.
 
These are contradictory statements. While it is true that all players should try to keep shape as simple as possible, it is not true that you should try to land the CB in an "exact spot"...and most certainly at this skill level. For the majority of player shot situations, a 'zone' of a 1-2 foot circle will suffice plenty adequately, for position on the next shot. Thinking 3 shots ahead is much more important, and a skill that even B or A players sometimes forget...especially when under pressure.

To the OP...concentrate on your fundamentals. Get some video evaluation of your setup and delivery process, from a qualified instructor, and then work on what corrections they point out to you. This will improve your ability to stroke the CB more accurately, which will, in turn, give you better control of your position play.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

fd_colorado said:
Try to keep the shape as simple as possible given your level of cue ball control. Pick an exact spot where you want whitey to wind up; don't play general shape.
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
These are contradictory statements. While it is true that all players should try to keep shape as simple as possible, it is not true that you should try to land the CB in an "exact spot"...and most certainly at this skill level. For the majority of player shot situations, a 'zone' of a 1-2 foot circle will suffice plenty adequately, for position on the next shot. Thinking 3 shots ahead is much more important, and a skill that even B or A players sometimes forget...especially when under pressure.

To the OP...concentrate on your fundamentals. Get some video evaluation of your setup and delivery process, from a qualified instructor, and then work on what corrections they point out to you. This will improve your ability to stroke the CB more accurately, which will, in turn, give you better control of your position play.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

While I am obviously not up on current teaching methods, I do know that the more exact shape I try to play, the better my game is. General shape tends to have a way of compounding (at least for me) to the point where I don't have a good shot anymore.

I am not trying to be argumentative, but I having a hard time imagining how in the original scenario of 4-5 balls down at one end of the table, a 1-2 foot zone system would work.

I think if you re-read my first 2 posts on this topic you'll find that I am in basic agreement with you regarding making the shot first, shape second and keeping things simple. What we probably don't agree on is whether a C player can pull this off - hence my opening statement about being a rusty A/B player playing at the C level with (inferred) A/B knowledge.
 
Mastering pool by George Fels

I have to second reading the book that Neil referred. Apart from all the good advice here, and taking fundamental physical pool skills off the table, you absolutely HAVE TO know and understand to NEVER shoot w/out a plan, map, and goal in mind with every shot.

In the straight pool section of that book there are critical ideas that are fundamental to the answer to your question. In it George refers to A, B, and C balls. If you don't read or understand this concept, you will never get where you want to be (a consistent runout player).

Get that book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is not enough room here to write it all out.

Good luck.

td
 
Scott Lee said:
These are contradictory statements. While it is true that all players should try to keep shape as simple as possible, it is not true that you should try to land the CB in an "exact spot"...and most certainly at this skill level. For the majority of player shot situations, a 'zone' of a 1-2 foot circle will suffice plenty adequately, for position on the next shot. Thinking 3 shots ahead is much more important, and a skill that even B or A players sometimes forget...especially when under pressure.

To the OP...concentrate on your fundamentals. Get some video evaluation of your setup and delivery process, from a qualified instructor, and then work on what corrections they point out to you. This will improve your ability to stroke the CB more accurately, which will, in turn, give you better control of your position play.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

I'm actually glad to hear you say that. I am always trying to get perfect position...many times at the risk of my shot.

Funny though....I played the other night....I had all of my balls planned in order...of the 8 balls(yes I ran out) I only got shape on the 2nd ball. I was out of position or in the wrong position for every shot. But I still shot them in the order of the original plan.

On the 8 ball I actually tried for shape on one side of the ball and actually ended up on the complete other side and ended up with a straight in shot in the side.
i wasn't proud of the run out but didn't bother to let on the number of times I was in the wrong position. Just acted like it was supposed to go there.

Doesn't happen to me all the time but this was one rack that it was almost every ball.
 
leehayes...One of the best exercises that I've ever seen, was shown to me by Jerry Briesath, more than 20 years ago. It is still, imo, the best way to become a better player...and the more accurate your stroke, the easier this exercise is to accomplish.

Throw three balls onto the table. Shoot the three balls in rotation. Take b-i-h on the first shot. Pocket the OB, and then get EASY position on the 2nd OB. Pocket the 2nd OB and get EASY position on the 3rd OB. Pocket the 3rd OB. Easy position is defined as no more than a 30 degree angle on each shot. If you fall out of line in your position play (meaning you likely will still make the shot, but the angle is greater than 30 degrees), you have failed the exercise. Do this exercise 20 times. When you can successfully complete this exercise 15 out of 20 tries, move on to 4 balls. Do the same thing.

This will help you in the situation you described...which is all too common, even for very good players (they get out of line, but still get out). While completing a run is the end result we are all looking for, true high level playing ability is defined by how well you can control your cuestick. There are a million shotmakers out there, but a whole lot less that can accurately manipulate what direction, and how far, the CB travels.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
which order to take the balls

8ballguy said:
If i may ask
Is there a general rule when clearing out one end if the table?
Do you work from the end (short) rail out?
Do you work first the furthest from the rail and then in?
Do you clear out the middle first?, or the balls on the long rail balls first?
Does anyone know some drills that would help?


Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thank you.
Click to expand...

As guideline, approach clearing the balls at the end of the table in the same way as you would approach clearing the whole set, ie using the same general rules. So:

Plan the whole run before you start;
Look to take out the difficult balls early;
Leave the easy / insurance balls till later.

For this purpose, 'difficult' balls will include those that are blocking the paths of other balls of your set into pockets. It will also include those that are 'crowding' other balls, ie are making the position zone for other balls smaller or more awkward, or that are liable to get in the way of the exit route from other balls.

'Easy' balls are those that are near the corner pockets and which you can pocket from just about anywhere and still control the white.

Clearing any balls close to the rails early is also often a good idea, since they can get in the way of the c.b. path later on.

Hope this helps

Simon

PS

As a rule, don't include in your pattern two consecutive balls on the same rail.
 
Scott Lee said:
leehayes...One of the best exercises that I've ever seen, was shown to me by Jerry Briesath, more than 20 years ago. It is still, imo, the best way to become a better player...and the more accurate your stroke, the easier this exercise is to accomplish.

Throw three balls onto the table. Shoot the three balls in rotation. Take b-i-h on the first shot. Pocket the OB, and then get EASY position on the 2nd OB. Pocket the 2nd OB and get EASY position on the 3rd OB. Pocket the 3rd OB. Easy position is defined as no more than a 30 degree angle on each shot. If you fall out of line in your position play (meaning you likely will still make the shot, but the angle is greater than 30 degrees), you have failed the exercise. Do this exercise 20 times. When you can successfully complete this exercise 15 out of 20 tries, move on to 4 balls. Do the same thing.

This will help you in the situation you described...which is all too common, even for very good players (they get out of line, but still get out). While completing a run is the end result we are all looking for, true high level playing ability is defined by how well you can control your cuestick. There are a million shotmakers out there, but a whole lot less that can accurately manipulate what direction, and how far, the CB travels.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Hey Scott thanks!!! A free lesson!! I actually do this drill alot. I find that with 3 balls I have no problem getting "easy" position most of the time(around 90%) but when I throw 4 balls out...kind of changes that.
Guess I need to work on it more but I'm very thankful that it's a drill that I do that is worthwhile.
 
Neil said:
There is a difference here. You WANT to pick out a spot for the cueball to go. But it doesn't have to be an exact spot . (Not very often anyways.) While stnding up, look at where your 'zone' is for the next shot to be made. You want to try and get to the ideal spot in that
zone, but just being in the zone is good. DON'T get all hung up on not being on the exact spot you picked! And DON'T sacrifice making the shot for position. Position is meaningless without getting to use it.

One other thing you mentioned that you did, NEVER let on that you got out of line if you still have a shot to another pocket. Don't let your opponent see a weakness when he could be seeing a strength. It can change his mindset to your detriment.
Click to expand...
Thanks Neil. This is what I love about this website. I'm usually beating myself up for not being perfect. Nice to know that an area is a better choice.
Definitely appreciate the advice...even if this isn't my post.
 
JoeyInCali said:
D player won't beat the 3-ball ghost I think.
C player might be even money with the 4-ball ghost.
C+ or B- is even with the 5-ball ghost .
B player is probably even with the 7-ball ghost.
A player is even money to beat the 9-ball ghost.
Shortstop beats the 9-ball ghost.
Pros run out 70%+ will ball in hand on the one ball.
Click to expand...

That makes me a B+--

:D
 
Scott Lee said:
leehayes...One of the best exercises that I've ever seen, was shown to me by Jerry Briesath, more than 20 years ago. <snip>

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Small world...Jerry Briesath was my mentor back in the early 70's when I worked at his pool room in Madison, WI.
 
Neil said:
There is a difference here. You WANT to pick out a spot for the cueball to go. But it doesn't have to be an exact spot . (Not very often anyways.) While stnding up, look at where your 'zone' is for the next shot to be made. You want to try and get to the ideal spot in that
zone, but just being in the zone is good. DON'T get all hung up on not being on the exact spot you picked! And DON'T sacrifice making the shot for position. Position is meaningless without getting to use it.
Click to expand...

+1 :thumbup:
 
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