Classic Cue Market Dying Off

garczar said:
I see ya bro. How old are you? Guessing over 50? I'm 65 and all i see is production cues coming in Magoo's. I have a Jensen i never use, my daily is a $90 chinese J&J sneaky. In Tulsa you used to see all kinds of nice stuff but the pool scene died and in its comeback you never see custom stuff. Hell, our old in-house builder, Eddie Farris, had to sell chinese prod. stuff just to pay the bills, no one was ordering custom. Its the same in Dallas, Houston, KC, DesMoines. The Midwest has some great builders but their client base is shrinking by the year.
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To be fair, I don’t know anyone under 50 that could afford a $2k cue (including me). Same for golf, I don’t see younger people with new, expensive equipment. Houses and medical care were a lot cheaper 40 years ago.
 
garczar said:
I see ya bro. How old are you? Guessing over 50? I'm 65 and all i see is production cues coming in Magoo's. I have a Jensen i never use, my daily is a $90 chinese J&J sneaky. In Tulsa you used to see all kinds of nice stuff but the pool scene died and in its comeback you never see custom stuff. Hell, our old in-house builder, Eddie Farris, had to sell chinese prod. stuff just to pay the bills, no one was ordering custom. Its the same in Dallas, Houston, KC, DesMoines. The Midwest has some great builders but their client base is shrinking by the year.
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Yup,,,,turning 80 this summer…….not sure how many more racks are in me but I’ll keep playing as long as my body will let me. Thinking of having a fancy SP cue built with a KW shaft but only a few cue makers seem capable of building a KW shaft to my specs. I am pondering the best wood combo to use for the cue butt and forearm.I don’t want to use ebony and if anyone has photos of a really nice SP design, please send me any photos or post it on this thread as a reply. It actually can coincide with the custom cues theme….a custom made SP cue…how much is too much to pay?
 
kling&allen said:
To be fair, I don’t know anyone under 50 that could afford a $2k cue (including me). Same for golf, I don’t see younger people with new, expensive equipment. Houses and medical care were a lot cheaper 40 years ago.
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What exactly are you asking from a custom cue maker ? And how can you or do you realize what you want ?

These factors are why it is cool to tell people that "I have a custom cue"

But for proven sciencetific facts and or philosophy, Meucci, Predators are at the forefront front
 
garczar said:
I've said this before but no players under 40-45 give a flying fk about custom cues. Its all production stuff with cf shafts. The custom cue crowd is aging quick and when they're gone so goes that market.
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Id tend to agree with this .. my kids are both in their 20s and appreciate the beauty of some of my older cues but have ZERO interest in trying to shoot with them .. their normal players are all Cuetecs
 
Are any readers gun buffs? How many of you own a gun, handgun or rifle? Is it a contemporary gun or a collectible?
If contemporaneous, is it a standard model or did you accessorize it., sights or light? How many holsters do you have?
Did you buy practice ammo and self-defense ammunition? How often do you practice at the range weekly, mthly, yrly?

Okay, all basic questions that most gun owners could answer based on their experience, not what what they’d think if they did not own a gun. So their answers reflect more real world experience rather than what they might imagine it as.

Back to custom cues and why I am making a gun analogy. How many gun owners, or anyone that has ever shot a gun,
had the opportunity to shoot a custom built gun. handgun or rifle? Was it a custom built version of a gun similar to what
you own or even shot? Bottomline……..was there a difference, is there a difference, with a custom made gun versus a standard model by the same manufacturer? Was it significant? Was the price difference justifiable? Would you want one?

I have, more than once, and there is a big difference in the design and performance that justifies the higher price if you can afford it. To deny or debate that is just being obstinate minded and I’d have a couple if CA did not have such stringent certification requirements for guns. Well, when you find the right cue maker, custom built cues are the very same way.
 
Bavafongoul said:
Are any readers gun buffs? How many of you own a gun, handgun or rifle? Is it a contemporary gun or a collectible?
If contemporaneous, is it a standard model or did you accessorize it., sights or light? How many holsters do you have?
Did you buy practice ammo and self-defense ammunition? How often do you practice at the range weekly, mthly, yrly?

Okay, all basic questions that most gun owners could answer based on their experience, not what what they’d think if they did not own a gun. So their answers reflect more real world experience rather than what they might imagine it as.

Back to custom cues and why I am making a gun analogy. How many gun owners, or anyone that has ever shot a gun,
had the opportunity to shoot a custom built gun. handgun or rifle? Was it a custom built version of a gun similar to what
you own or even shot? Bottomline……..was there a difference, is there a difference, with a custom made gun versus a standard model by the same manufacturer? Was it significant? Was the price difference justifiable? Would you want one?

I have, more than once, and there is a big difference in the design and performance that justifies the higher price if you can afford it. To deny or debate that is just being obstinate minded and I’d have a couple if CA did not have such stringent certification requirements for guns. Well, when you find the right cue maker, custom built cues are the very same way.
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Yes sure, totally understandable, but if you are a gun owner as a dedicated hobby, then you know a lot of what you want and need, and there are a lot of technical parameters you would like to follow.

What about a cue ? Is there such parameters and specs ? And in order to understand your own needs, you would have to completely be involved into Pool dedicatedly. I think only the Pros would do so. Hence sponsoring pros like SVB and Cuetek or Filler and Predators are brilliant marketing.

Still, to a casual player like me, I dont know what I should look in a cuestick to make me shoot better. More like I should be shooting better before I want an expensive cuestick...let alone a custom one, and based on what parameters ?
 
Bavafongoul said:
Are any readers gun buffs? How many of you own a gun, handgun or rifle? Is it a contemporary gun or a collectible?
If contemporaneous, is it a standard model or did you accessorize it., sights or light?”How many holsters do you have?
Did you buy practice ammo and self-defense ammunition? How often do you practice at the range weekly, mthly, yrly?
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Better question.. How many holsters did you go through before you settled on the “one” that’s right for you? 😉
 
Bavafongoul said:
Are any readers gun buffs? How many of you own a gun, handgun or rifle? Is it a contemporary gun or a collectible?
If contemporaneous, is it a standard model or did you accessorize it., sights or light? How many holsters do you have?
Did you buy practice ammo and self-defense ammunition? How often do you practice at the range weekly, mthly, yrly?

Okay, all basic questions that most gun owners could answer based on their experience, not what what they’d think if they did not own a gun. So their answers reflect more real world experience rather than what they might imagine it as.

Back to custom cues and why I am making a gun analogy. How many gun owners, or anyone that has ever shot a gun,
had the opportunity to shoot a custom built gun. handgun or rifle? Was it a custom built version of a gun similar to what
you own or even shot? Bottomline……..was there a difference, is there a difference, with a custom made gun versus a standard model by the same manufacturer? Was it significant? Was the price difference justifiable? Would you want one?

I have, more than once, and there is a big difference in the design and performance that justifies the higher price if you can afford it. To deny or debate that is just being obstinate minded and I’d have a couple if CA did not have such stringent certification requirements for guns. Well, when you find the right cue maker, custom built cues are the very same way.
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As a competitive shooter and owner of several hundred firearms. I definitely get the analogy with firearms as I have many customs for competition but most of my CCW weapons are basically stock with exception of night sights .. lazer or flashlight
 
vincett said:
Yes sure, totally understandable, but if you are a gun owner as a dedicated hobby, then you know a lot of what you want and need, and there are a lot of technical parameters you would like to follow.

What about a cue ? Is there such parameters and specs ? And in order to understand your own needs, you would have to completely be involved into Pool dedicatedly. I think only the Pros would do so. Hence sponsoring pros like SVB and Cuetek or Filler and Predators are brilliant marketing.

Still, to a casual player like me, I dont know what I should look in a cuestick to make me shoot better. More like I should be shooting better before I want an expensive cuestick...let alone a custom one, and based on what parameters ?
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The best thing any pool player can do is learn about oool cue anatomy. It takes about 7-10 minutes.
Then find out what your cue’s specs are, for example, butt weight, diameter, shaft weight, diameter,
tip brand and hardness. We can discuss joint type and ferrule size & composition some other time.

Whenever you get the opportunity to play with another’s player’s cue, besides telling them you liked it be sure to ask some highly pertinent questions. However, do not be surprised to hear ….I Don’t Know……as the commmon reply or else just a guess……around 19 ozs……the shaft are smaller than 13mm….12 something. It is stunning to see how many pool players are either disinterested or merely ignorant about the equipment they play with.

There are golfers that are the same way. They buy a set of barely used big brand name golf clubs at a fantastic price at a garage sale. Th widow is selling off her husband’s stuff and here was a new set of Callaway or Ping irons, woods and driver for $650. So you jump on it knowing how much you’d save but she has no idea how her husband bought the clubs. As it turns out, he wasn’t custom fitted and if he had been, it wouldn’t likely be what You’d need if you were fitted.

So the loft and lie for the original purchaser’s custom fit order, which was not the widow’s husband, was 6’ 4”, 245lbs., sleeve length of 37” and a 1.75 degree upright and 2 degrees stronger loft on his irons and 1degree stronger woods and 8.5 degree driver. The price was fantastic and the clubs were absolutely horribly fitted for your swing so your golf never improves.

Take all the lessons you want but if you had better fit clubs you’d perform better. A baseball bat is the same way…….the barrel shape, the wood, the bat handle throat and overall weight are important considerations for the best results. I am not saying a pool cue will improve your skills. That’s on you and your aptitude to learn, practice & improve.

However, as you master the fundamentals, and develop your skills! It is time to experiment and find out what feels different in various cues and do you ever find one that feels better to you. You’ll know it instantly as soon as you pocket the first object ball. The cue speaks to you thru your grip and the sound of your stroke. Watch the object ball roll and how the cue ball behaves. Start making more shots and see how the cue ball tends to find position easier and more consistently. The cue seems to energize you and there’s an alacrity to your movement to the next shot. It’s almost like you are gliding around the table knowing where the cue ball will arrive.

A smile comes across your face and you realize this cue feels great……that’s exactly when you speak to the cue owner and find out what’s different about his cue & your cue.….start with the brand or cue maker and ask intelligent questions about his pool cue’s anatomy…….just be prepared for some replies that are meaningless because they often don’t know.
 
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for competition you do need a custom firearm. but for pool you don't.

but a custom is to make you feel good about your tool as well.

but almost all pool cues are custom to some point. a special tip other than what came with it.
re -wrapped, or shaft changed.

with pool cues its more about feel and looks, as about all cues shoot the same.
 
RidgeRaider said:
I'm not being argumentative, but I must disagree.

I'm a fledgling cue maker, and partly why I became a cue maker is because of the un-tapped custom market near me. The custom market is tapped, actually, but the mid-level affordable custom market is untapped.

Everyone I know and shoot pool with would LOVE to own a custom cue. What they don't love is the 2-5 year waitlist and $2k-$5k price tag. I can build merry widows and full splice blanks pretty quick as far as custom cues go, and I can do them affordably for the buyer and myself. Most of the merry widows I've sold have been $500 and under, and a lot of the full splices I've sold for $350. Want a carbon fiber shaft with it? $200 extra. Is it all inlayed and using the most exotic woods? No. But it's absolutely a custom cue, 1 of 1, and they hold their own against the big name custom makers. I own a custom Schon that is worth $1,800+ and I won't grab that before I grab any of my full core cues I've made.

I don't do this as a business, so I don't have to be concerned with maximizing profits. I do this as a hobby and service to the good pool players in my area. It's easy to get greedy when you see the profits are there and the damn cues basically sell themselves. I've sold every cue from just playing with it and people asking about them.

A lot of times people don't know what they want until you put it in front of them and in their hands. Turns out, A LOT of people want an affordable custom cue. The biggest difference between people of my age, and the older folk, is that the older crowd has / had patience and understood quality costed a lot of money. I think they got took advantage of on the quality to cost ratio though when it came to a lot of the cues people bought. Regardless, people my age want stuff now, and they don't want to have to save for months / years for it. So when you offer something that they can own either right now or very soon, and for a price they can just withdraw from the ATM and not have to budget much for, you have what the people my age want.

Also, people my age aren't nostalgic for the past. This means they don't care about Rambow, or Balabushka, or Runde. They don't know who those guys are / were, and they won't ever care. They don't care whose name is on the cue, they just care if they can say to their buddies "Yeah, it's a custom!" and "It plays way better than my McDermott!".
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"Pretty quick" no thanks, I'll take my cues unwarped
 
It is when you buy something on impulse not knowing or understanding the nuances of what feels the best.
Sometimes it’s called ignorance, other times not knowing, and of course, there’s always…it doesn’t matter.
Ultimately, after you play long enough, you’ll learn in hindsight what you wished you knew a long time ago.
 
The problem with "kids" today is they are TOLD what cue they should have, back in the day you had to figure it out, you know, use a little brain power. Severely lacking today
 
jasonlaus said:
"Pretty quick" no thanks, I'll take my cues unwarped
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Pretty quick by custom standards means not waiting 2-5 years.

You wanna wait 2-5 years for someone to work with kiln dried lumber? Be my guest. I guess there's the scenic route for everything, but waiting years to make a cue with kiln dried lumber is like aging a box of franzia saying it gets better with age.... But then again, I do enjoy reading all the posts from you old timers complaining "My custom maker hasn't contacted me in years! When is my cue going to be done!", so to each their own.

Also, with some planning, it's not hard to have a stock of wood consistently seasoned ready to work. For every cue I make, I buy enough wood to make 3 more cues. I will never out build my wood supply, and I will never even get close to having to touch wood that's been sitting less than 8-10 months, which is more than kiln dried needs. I started seasoning and stocking wood almost a year before I started building cues. I've got a room in my basement stacked floor to wall, wall to wall with wood that gets rotated and re-placed 3x when a piece is used. It's extremely over-kill for how many or how little cues I produce, but I am in this for the long haul, and you need a river of wood to do it.

Anyways, thanks for your support.
 
the good old time makers had lots of shafts hanging for a long time curing even long after.
and they actually went to work and you got a cue in a month.

any cuemaker that makes you wait more than say 6 months is lazy or has no stock.
or the rare one with some many orders he cant get them filled and lies to you over and over when you will get your cue.
 
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