cnc lathe
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What about Z?
Crossbones is correct. The spindle is not considered an axis. I have actually done inlays on a turning center however it was a three axes machine. The wood turning spindle was a stepper motor that I changed to a rotary axis with mach settings.
If you wanted to use just two axes you will need some way of moving the spindle into the work. I personally would not bother.
Jim.
cutting into the handle will be quite straight forward , especially with the software around today. Making the inlay and getting it inserted is where the real work is.
I myself do not do inlays etc on any of my cues. But I have programmed and made parts on 4 axis machines, using xyz and rotation all going at the same time. It can be done by writing the Gcode, but becomes a lot of code in a short time.
Neil
I myself do not do inlays etc on any of my cues. But I have programmed and made parts on 4 axis machines, using xyz and rotation all going at the same time. It can be done by writing the Gcode, but becomes a lot of code in a short time.
Neil
RBC
Deceased
When you're talking positional control of the spindle rotation, it's usually called the C axis.
You conceivably could use a live tool mounted horizontally on the X,Z table and have it oriented lengthwise along the X direction. The depth of the pocket would be programmed in the X axis, and the Z and C would control the cutout of the pocket.
The only thing is that the pocket would now be rotary in nature with sides that are not parallel to each other. One little nuance about this that is often overlooked is the offset of the cutter so that the side of the cutter is located on a radial line directly out from the center. If this little offset isn't done, then the angle on the sides of the parts and the angle on the sides of the pocket will be different and the parts won't fit properly.
In order to do this right requires 4th axis machining and it would mean that the machine must also have an additional axis to raise and lower the live tool to account for the tool offset.
All in all it just really isn't that practical from my point of view. I don't think very many cue makers have actually performed true 4th axis machining in cues, but I do know that Thomas Wayne is one of them. Maybe he can chime in with more information. He may correct me on some of my perspectives as well. My point of view strictly comes from my very limited knowledge of 4th axis machining.
Jim (MC2) explained how most of us go about it. It's really 2 or 3 axis machining with an added rotary component. The rotary is used just to position for the next machining operation, and isn't usually used during the individual pocketing operation.
Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
You conceivably could use a live tool mounted horizontally on the X,Z table and have it oriented lengthwise along the X direction. The depth of the pocket would be programmed in the X axis, and the Z and C would control the cutout of the pocket.
The only thing is that the pocket would now be rotary in nature with sides that are not parallel to each other. One little nuance about this that is often overlooked is the offset of the cutter so that the side of the cutter is located on a radial line directly out from the center. If this little offset isn't done, then the angle on the sides of the parts and the angle on the sides of the pocket will be different and the parts won't fit properly.
In order to do this right requires 4th axis machining and it would mean that the machine must also have an additional axis to raise and lower the live tool to account for the tool offset.
All in all it just really isn't that practical from my point of view. I don't think very many cue makers have actually performed true 4th axis machining in cues, but I do know that Thomas Wayne is one of them. Maybe he can chime in with more information. He may correct me on some of my perspectives as well. My point of view strictly comes from my very limited knowledge of 4th axis machining.
Jim (MC2) explained how most of us go about it. It's really 2 or 3 axis machining with an added rotary component. The rotary is used just to position for the next machining operation, and isn't usually used during the individual pocketing operation.
Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
Correct Royce, c axis is what we call the rotary axis on machines at work. Still think you could cut a flat bottomed parallel sided inlay pocket on a 3 axis lathe if you used a ball shaped bit that could under cut a little. The bottom of the pocket would have to be radiuses the size of the bit. The inlay would also have to be radiused or champored for clearance. A 3-axis lathe will be significantly more rigid than a 4 axis with the play in a gantry.
Well since the spindle that drives the cue was a stepper it could be configured either way. So it is a spindle used as a lathe and a rotary as a mill.
For the record the rotary axis is usually A axis and a spindle that positions for side milling is a C axis. Oh and in a real cnc lathe X is the cross slide and Z is the axis that moves to and away from the spindle. I do use X and Y with Mach 3 software for turning as I prefer the mill package better. I just cut the pulses per inch on the Y axis for Diameter mode.
Jim
My machine is an X,Y,Z, A for rotation. I would say 4 axis, but if Z doesn't count then it would be three. I do not move A until pocket is done, Then A spins to new location.
I have tried it since you posted, in Bobcad it lets you pick, mill 3 axis, when I click on it there is a warning that flashes across my screen "you are not that smart yet".
So I can't help you. Yours may say something different.
I also know a tool guy that has a 8 axis cnc that he makes tools on. I live next to Oak Ridge Tn and some of the contractors for the Gov plants around here have some pretty wild stuff. I asked him about using that machine to do a pool cue on, and all I got was a weird look, I guess this machine was 1 million or so, I really don't think they would let me play with it. When I saw it being used, he was explaining the operation, I never herd a word, my mind was racing about 3D cues. I could see the Chess Line, The Knight Line, and on and on.
I wish I new more to help. I guess when I run that thru my head, I see more on the line of carving, not pocketing, but these other folk on here are pretty darn smart, I would say if it could be done and worked, more would be doing it.
Steve
I have tried it since you posted, in Bobcad it lets you pick, mill 3 axis, when I click on it there is a warning that flashes across my screen "you are not that smart yet".
So I can't help you. Yours may say something different.
I also know a tool guy that has a 8 axis cnc that he makes tools on. I live next to Oak Ridge Tn and some of the contractors for the Gov plants around here have some pretty wild stuff. I asked him about using that machine to do a pool cue on, and all I got was a weird look, I guess this machine was 1 million or so, I really don't think they would let me play with it. When I saw it being used, he was explaining the operation, I never herd a word, my mind was racing about 3D cues. I could see the Chess Line, The Knight Line, and on and on.
I wish I new more to help. I guess when I run that thru my head, I see more on the line of carving, not pocketing, but these other folk on here are pretty darn smart, I would say if it could be done and worked, more would be doing it.
Steve
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Since a real 3 axis lathe is actually a C axis lathe then i'm guessing the answer is NO when it comes to pool cues. If anyone has tried it then I would guess TW or Samsara would be the only 2 i can think of.
It is possible somebody in this world has yanked the typical tool post off of X axis on a C axis lathe and replaced it with a live tool such as an NSK, made a rediculously complex post processor and cut rotary pockets, but certainly they dont cut parts as the parts wont fit. Theres no way to cut a corresponding 3d part that will fit with this 3 axis configuration.
RBC
Deceased
I think the part that you're missing is that 3 axis won't do it. At least not both parts and pockets that will actually fit each other.
The issue is that you must offset for the cutter diameter in a separate axis. Without this, the parts and the pockets will have walls at different angles and will not fit each other.
Let's look at it from a standard 3 axis lathe configuration.
X axis moves the tool across the spindle center line. It would account for diameters when turning and pocket depth in your scenario
Z axis moves in line with the spindle center line. It controls the length of turned parts, or would account for the lengthwise straight linear component in your scenario.
C axis is the rotation of the spindle, and the ability to index it or control it with the same accuracy as the other axis'. The C axis would spin your parts during turning, or account for the second axis of cutting in your scenario. The one perpendicular (sort of) to the Z axis.
What is missing here is the ability to raise and lower the live tool spindle holding your end mill. Without it, you can't get the side of the end mill on the cut line, only the center.
Once you have the ability to offset the cutter, then you have to program it. As far as I know, only the higher end software packages offer true 4 axis interpolation. And they usually have a very strong learning curve.
So, while the idea could work, it would require more than you suspect, and would not provide anything substantially different than what is already done with much simpler and less costly means.
Take a look at our Infinity Inlays in this cue: (Hover over the pic to get a zoom window)
http://www.obcues.com/products/OB%252d135-Darts-High-Performance-Pool-Cue-with-an-OB-Plus-Shaft.html
These are all inlays, not splices. There are not little holes or gaps filled with epoxy to hide the fixes, and they are not hand carved to make them sharp. They are all done on 3 axis gantry routers.
I have 3 commercial CNC lathes. We use them for making rings, collars and butt caps. We also use them for end work like ferrules and ferrule tenons, installing cutting and shaping tips, and machining the joint ends both cues and shafts as well as the butt end on our cues. I don't have C axis on any of them, and if I did, I still wouldn't even attempt making inlays on them. I have been exactly where you're at and asked myself the same questions you're asking here. But, after I learned much more about it, I realized that it just wasn't the right way to do it.
I hope that helps!
Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
Don't know how to cut the parts, but
y axis lathe will cut straight sided pockets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdvJFyauY4Q
Maybe I'm missing the point. Sure doesn't seem practical.
Y axis lathes are rather pricey.
y axis lathe will cut straight sided pockets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdvJFyauY4Q
Maybe I'm missing the point. Sure doesn't seem practical.
Y axis lathes are rather pricey.
RBC
Deceased
Steve
You are absolutely right!
The additional axis is required. You can't do it that way with just X, Z and C. Since the extra axis is there, you're really just milling like we do with our mills and routers. The only difference is in how you hold the part. The important thing for the original poster is that the spindle rotation is not involved in the cut. It's merely an indexer which is exactly what we have on our mill based machines. The lathe just isn't necessary. And for all but the most complex designs, 4th axis isn't necessary either. It's just a lot more complicated.
Royce
We have one of these where I teach at never have used the live tooling on it but have used it to make ferrules because it has a bar feeder on it.
Thanks for the input guys. I'm building another CNC. I already have two 3 axis tables, one small 480mm x 550mm x 65mm and one large 6' x 9' x 11". New machine orginally was gonna be just a tapering machine. Then thought its easy enough to do the spindle as well so go me thinking what could be done besides carving? Use solidworks/AutoCAD and mastercam. Computer set up with mach3 and emc2. Have never used emc though.
You should be using mill 2 axes pocket and part. That actually refers to the axes that are moving simultaneously . Typically the Z axis will move into the part then X and Y will move along the tool path. I have never seen that warning though and I am thinking that you do not have the pro version of Bobcad. Don't worry you most likely will not need it.
Jim.