Coaching better/peer players?

[DCS_SF]

Sorry for the long post.

I captain a couple teams, and I seem to have an issue that I run into more often than I'd like. I have players who are the same level as me, or slightly above/below and they often don't like to hear advice from me. How do you approach this?

Now let me explain a little bit. I think I have a very good head for strategy. It is why these guys/gals choose me as captain. I work on cue ball control, and pattern play often, but I am having trouble getting a few to step up their game in the same way. I have a few players who I think are actually better shotmakers than I am, in that they will pull out a hail mary that I play hard not to get myself into. However, it often leads to slow games, or them asking for advice after they have shot themselves into an impossible situation.

After some friction long ago, I have stepped back from calling timeouts for them, as their are a million ways to run a table. I let them call them for the most part. However, I find myself getting called for advice after they have made serious (and often game losing) errors in their runouts. The advice I want to give is well you shouldn't have shot that, or you should have played safe 3 shots ago, or why did you leave your problem until now? That isn't productive in the moment so of course I don't say it. Saying it after or at another time has little effect and hasn't changed the situation.

I try and make sure I am always improving my game, even in matches I am working on something. Since they may not see me as an authority or source of solid advice, suggestions for books, and even passing videos to these players hasn't worked either. They admit they didn't look at it. I see my game improving and their games stagnating. A couple are playing more, but not drills, or anything specific, just shooting more games, and seemingly not changing their habits.

Another problem is one of these players is unacceptably slow. He over thinks every shot and still makes bad shot selections. Then screws the leave. The slowness is an issue since we sometimes play timed matches...

We all have very friendly relationships and even good friendships, but I can't seem to get past this sometimes when at the table in terms of advice and progression. Anybody dealt with this or have advice?

 

[King T]

One good way..,

Sorry for the long post.

I captain a couple teams, and I seem to have an issue that I run into more often than I'd like. I have players who are the same level as me, or slightly above/below and they often don't like to hear advice from me. How do you approach this?

Anybody dealt with this or have advice?

I have been in the same situation. I always start by telling the player that I want to share something I learned from Grady Mathews about the shot he just shot or Jersey Red or Bugs.

If its a shot that I cant execute then I say that before I attempt it, If I can I still let them know that I got it from the best. If you take yourself out of the equation, the information is more likely to be well received.

No body smart wants to argue about the way Bugs or Grady or Jersey played.

 

[DCS_SF]

I have been in the same situation. I always start by telling the player that I want to share something I learned from Grady Mathews about the shot he just shot or Jersey Red or Bugs.

If its a shot that I cant execute then I say that before I attempt it, If I can I still let them know that I got it from the best. If you take yourself out of the equation, the information is more likely to be well received.

No body smart wants to argue about the way Bugs or Grady or Jersey played.

This is good advice. I will give it a try, thanks.

 

[TheBook]

It is difficult to address because they have already decided what they want to do. If they give in more than likely they will miss or mess it up as they are not comfortable with it and it isn't what they wanted to do.

If they get themselves in a jam I would tell them that they asked for advice one shot too late. They needed advice on the shot prior so they wouldn't have messed up.

 

[skip100]

You can't really do anything about this from your seat, so it sounds like you and your teammates need to have a discussion about this.

As long as they get pissed when you call the timeout on them, they are going to call the timeout themselves. The only way to make that happen is to convince them to change their attitude (unlikely in the short term) or have some kind of pre-arranged agreement for a mandatory time out before runouts.

In practice that could mean, as a temporary measure, every time they believe they are prepared to run out they agree to call a timeout so you can have a discussion. As a sign of goodwill you could agree to do this yourself when you are playing.

Obviously that comes with the risk of not having the timeout later in the rack when a difficult situation arises, but that could be well worth the trade if it leads to more table clears.

 

[mvp]

I learned in the past, just coach by saying this: what are you thinking? (It may be better than your idea) then just tell them what you would do and why, and walk away! Like the old saying goes "you can take a horse a drink but you can't turn him into water" or something like that!

 

[DCS_SF]

Make a point of calling timeouts on yourself and getting their input from time to time. If it's a two way conversation, maybe they'll be more receptive to your advice when it's needed.

I actually do this often. I make it clear that I want them to call timeouts on me whenever they see something I might not see. It has helped a little but not as much as I'd like.

The issue isn't so much during the matches, as it is how to give overall advice about pieces of the game they should work on. One guy has poor cue ball control, one has terrible shot selection, and doesn't run the patterns correctly. One guy ALWAYS leaves problems too long, shoots his breakout balls instead of using them etc.

We DO talk about this stuff, but I don't see them working on any of it. When they tell me something they notice I try and make a point to revisit it in practice or make a conscious attempt to change it.

It is difficult to address because they have already decided what they want to do. If they give in more than likely they will miss or mess it up as they are not comfortable with it and it isn't what they wanted to do.

If they get themselves in a jam I would tell them that they asked for advice one shot too late. They needed advice on the shot prior so they wouldn't have messed up.

��

Yeah I try and say this later or after a match, but try and stay positive during play. I guess maybe I should try saying it, but it hasn't worked in the past.

I learned in the past, just coach by saying this: what are you thinking? (It may be better than your idea) then just tell them what you would do and why, and walk away! Like the old saying goes "you can take a horse a drink but you can't turn him into water" or something like that!

I agree, I start every time out I give by asking the player what they are planning. Even low skills. Then we discuss other options, or I agree. Ultimately I leave it up to them and say shoot with what you are most comfortable with.

 

[jburkm002]

When I was a team captain. I use to like matching skill levels for time outs. Some done take advice or think your trying to get them to do something that you can do but they can't. Plus I found by using lower ranked players to coach each other. They were learning and seeing things they wouldn't normally see while shooting.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[DCS_SF]

That's more than I've ever asked of a league teammate. Happy when they bother to show up.

Fair enough. One team can have attendance problems sometimes, the other everyone shows up to hang out. All in all they are great teams, so I shouldn't complain too much I suppose.

 

[Tin Man]

captain

Most of what you have to do is accept you can't change who they are. Most people don't want to be told what to do, or have their decisions challenged. And if they don't have any desire to study or practice, you're not going to change that.

All you can do is try to bring out their best. Encourage them when they are playing well. Keep attitudes positive. Celebrate. Have fun. Keep the team focused and hungry. You picked them for a reason. Let them play their games.

As for time outs, answer any questions they ask, but don't try to provide more than they ask for. In fact, my advice would be this: Only give them 80% of the help they ask for. This way they walk away wanting to hear more. This way instead of a dynamic where you're always lecturing and they're always rolling their eyes, there will be a dynamic where they are always wanting more information from you and you're piecing them along. It won't be at the fast and furious pace you'd like them to learn at, but at least it will eliminate the conflict and improve how they receive what you have to say.

 

[GoldenFlash]

I like it when the captain calls timeout

I play a lot better than the captain on our team, but sometimes the Cap sees something that I'm overlooking.
It's kinda' like watching a game of checkers...standing away from the table it's easy to spot 3 for ones, traps, etc...but when up close to the board it seems as if it's not so easy.
I'm usually boozing and clowning with the ladies anyway, so anything the Cap sees that will help in running out or throwing a mortal lock safety on the opponent is great with me.
Pool players in general have such problems with egos.....

 

[DCS_SF]

Most of what you have to do is accept you can't change who they are. Most people don't want to be told what to do, or have their decisions challenged. And if they don't have any desire to study or practice, you're not going to change that.

All you can do is try to bring out their best. Encourage them when they are playing well. Keep attitudes positive. Celebrate. Have fun. Keep the team focused and hungry. You picked them for a reason. Let them play their games.

As for time outs, answer any questions they ask, but don't try to provide more than they ask for. In fact, my advice would be this: Only give them 80% of the help they ask for. This way they walk away wanting to hear more. This way instead of a dynamic where you're always lecturing and they're always rolling their eyes, there will be a dynamic where they are always wanting more information from you and you're piecing them along. It won't be at the fast and furious pace you'd like them to learn at, but at least it will eliminate the conflict and improve how they receive what you have to say.

Solid advice. Thanks. There's a greenie for you when I get back to a computer.

 

[lorider]

I am the captain of 3 teams. For my sanity I quit calling time outs during regular session unless I see a player undecided on what to do during a shot. I then walk up and ask what they are thinking and then I give them my opinion on what I think their bed option is. During regular session most players are just wanting to have fun playing pool.

During playoffs or higher I am a lot more serious and thus i watch every shot during every match and will call a time out if I think it warrants it. most players are more serious about winning and are more receptive to having a time out called on them.

 

[Bavafongoul]

There's some basic questions that need answering.

Does every person accept the notion....the concept.....they are on a team?

Are they more concerned about their results/performance than how the team fares?

Do they believe they "never" overlook a shot or how a table lays before them or options?


If you get the right answers to all 3 questions, you have someone you can confer with.

When you don't, what you instead wind up with is a bad case of "agita" so seek out another team.

 

[CGM]

I personally hate to have timeouts called by someone else during my matches. It messes with the flow of my game and it upsets me. Im not saying Im above advice or coaching, and in fact would appreciate breaking down certain shots and situations after the match, but I get irritated by TO's in the middle of a game.

 

[Cornerman]

I don't like to call timeouts, and "learning how to improve" doesn't come on league night. Those who love the game will learn by watching and seek out advice off the table. Those that are there to just have a fun time will generally not. No judgement there. If it's not there thing, its not there that thing. Accept it and move on.

If people ask me what I would have done, I tell them (three shots ago and all), but I also have to understand their skill level and why they wouldn't have shot or considered them. If in the end, if there's repeated agitation during these interactions by either party, then instruction and mentoring might not be for you. If it's not your thing, it's not your thing. If mentoring is your thing, you'll need to work on it. You *know* pool players can get frustrated in these moments. Words can be damaging.

Freddie <~~~ lessons learned

 

[justadub]

I don't often call timeouts much any more. I have a couple of guys my level or better on my team that tend to do more of the coaches now, so that's taken off my plate, which I'm good with. My team has one SL6 and four SL5's, so we have lots of folks to give an opinion.

I do tend to watch my SL3's more closely, and to be on the lookout for trouble with them. The good news is that all three of them tend to make the right choice more often than they don't these days, at least on initial patterns and such.

I'm really just a manager these days. I think I'm good with that.