Coming back off a long layoff is TOUGH
- Thread starter Wayne Crimi
- Start date
snookered_again
Well-known member
it might seem like a funny question but are you having as much FUN playing now as you did when you were younger? what is your objective? For a younger person who is in his 20-30's you may have had an objective of becoming better, hoping to win tournaments or bets or whatever it is that you are motivated towards. When you return later in life, it may possible be that your objective has changed a bit, maybe without even realizing it.
I know for me, I love playing snooker and its a lot about the comradery, less about trying to achieve those larger or longer term goals, I dont see becoming seriously competitive because of my age, eyesight is part of it for me.. Its a lot less than it was at one time , maybe glasses would help but I only wear readers so wearing glasses might be a disadvantage at least for a while.
I do love the game and the time I spend at it, but try to focus on the shot being important to me, The outcome of the game, not quite as much. I would not go so far as to say I don't care if I win but usually the motivation is just to keep playing instead of sit and wait.. I play a lot of older players and some definitely have retained their skills and built upon knowledge over time. Personally I was never that serious so I'm just now learning more about the technical side and rather than it being a crash course I need to take it in bits, practice, use new knowledge and return to play to put any new knowledge to use in order to go further..
For you, maybe you were quite serious at a younger age and that likely enabled you to learn more abotuthe tecnical aspects.
so now at this point it may be less about the technical aspects and more about refining your physical skills..
I think its similar for most sports.. people are in their prime in their 20's , by the 40's and beyond, less so.
Life !
I might become the best player in whatever old folks home I end up in 20 years ahead.. is that a goal ? ;-)
in teaching older people, one thing you need to do is get their buy in, why? because older people wont listen or pay attention until they see valid reason to learn, Kids, especially younger ones are in a state of accumulating a lot of knowledge really fast, their brains are working a lot differently than that of an older person. an older person may be less distracted , maybe can focus better.. learning and retention decreases somewhat, the mind is basically like a muscle in the way that it can work so hard until it reaches a point of exhaustion and then it's weaker until you rest.
An older person often can't digest as much as fast but they can definitely learn and retain new knowledge. Its easy to become a bit lazy and not challenge yourself enough, that's what boredom is, and some believe more strongly than others or are more determined to keep learning new stuff..
I strongly believe in lifelong learning but its different for everyone and like physical exercise , it might require conscious thought to maintain the motivation , not become lazy and have "weak muscles".
a lot of that depends on your personal drive but a lot of that drive may come out of your desire to grow..
I think it becomes pretty obvious that if you don't feel relaxed upstairs and you are worried , distracted by women , what others are saying or what you percieve they are thinking , shyness, money , others opinions , opinons etc.. this has a huge effect.. if you focus upon being so darn disappointed that you are loosing , that stuff can seriously set you back.
I think later in life people tend to "find themselves" feel more personally secure, and worry less aout other's perceptions and that allows one to be on a bit more of an "even keel".
distraction decreases your abilities.. I can't tell what others think but when I'm playing, the game is definitely not the only thing ever on my mind.. in fact people don't stop thinking even when they are speaking, they do both. its been said that thee is no such thing as multitasking,, your mind is giving time for different things, maybe even only microseconds, but it is divided. as soon as it is divided it has only so much time to focus on what's at hand. The light bulb isn't as bright, its still on, but "flickering."
My suggestion is just lighten up a bit , Dont be hard on yourself and the more relaxed attitude may allow better focus on the task at hand, IE the game. Another way to say that is dont forget to HAVE FUN !
I know some who are very good and serious payers are also wound up.. Maybe some of that is gaining an advantage by coming to the table brimming with confidence which can have the effect of making others feel disadvantaged.. its much like sharking but no one can call a guy out on being overly enthusiastic. of course people's "nature" is much different from one individual to another.
when you see a boxer come into the ring, he will often try to shark his opponent by being very confident. This takes steam from the other boxer, thats a mental game.. pool can be similar.
It sounds like you are trying to make balls so maybe playing straight pool, solo? I wonder if who you play against has much effect?
Being confident is not like you are clapping your hands every time the opponent shoots or waving your arms or asking them questions to intentionally shark.
People are complicated creatures..
I know for me, I love playing snooker and its a lot about the comradery, less about trying to achieve those larger or longer term goals, I dont see becoming seriously competitive because of my age, eyesight is part of it for me.. Its a lot less than it was at one time , maybe glasses would help but I only wear readers so wearing glasses might be a disadvantage at least for a while.
I do love the game and the time I spend at it, but try to focus on the shot being important to me, The outcome of the game, not quite as much. I would not go so far as to say I don't care if I win but usually the motivation is just to keep playing instead of sit and wait.. I play a lot of older players and some definitely have retained their skills and built upon knowledge over time. Personally I was never that serious so I'm just now learning more about the technical side and rather than it being a crash course I need to take it in bits, practice, use new knowledge and return to play to put any new knowledge to use in order to go further..
For you, maybe you were quite serious at a younger age and that likely enabled you to learn more abotuthe tecnical aspects.
so now at this point it may be less about the technical aspects and more about refining your physical skills..
I think its similar for most sports.. people are in their prime in their 20's , by the 40's and beyond, less so.
Life !
I might become the best player in whatever old folks home I end up in 20 years ahead.. is that a goal ? ;-)
in teaching older people, one thing you need to do is get their buy in, why? because older people wont listen or pay attention until they see valid reason to learn, Kids, especially younger ones are in a state of accumulating a lot of knowledge really fast, their brains are working a lot differently than that of an older person. an older person may be less distracted , maybe can focus better.. learning and retention decreases somewhat, the mind is basically like a muscle in the way that it can work so hard until it reaches a point of exhaustion and then it's weaker until you rest.
An older person often can't digest as much as fast but they can definitely learn and retain new knowledge. Its easy to become a bit lazy and not challenge yourself enough, that's what boredom is, and some believe more strongly than others or are more determined to keep learning new stuff..
I strongly believe in lifelong learning but its different for everyone and like physical exercise , it might require conscious thought to maintain the motivation , not become lazy and have "weak muscles".
a lot of that depends on your personal drive but a lot of that drive may come out of your desire to grow..
I think it becomes pretty obvious that if you don't feel relaxed upstairs and you are worried , distracted by women , what others are saying or what you percieve they are thinking , shyness, money , others opinions , opinons etc.. this has a huge effect.. if you focus upon being so darn disappointed that you are loosing , that stuff can seriously set you back.
I think later in life people tend to "find themselves" feel more personally secure, and worry less aout other's perceptions and that allows one to be on a bit more of an "even keel".
distraction decreases your abilities.. I can't tell what others think but when I'm playing, the game is definitely not the only thing ever on my mind.. in fact people don't stop thinking even when they are speaking, they do both. its been said that thee is no such thing as multitasking,, your mind is giving time for different things, maybe even only microseconds, but it is divided. as soon as it is divided it has only so much time to focus on what's at hand. The light bulb isn't as bright, its still on, but "flickering."
My suggestion is just lighten up a bit , Dont be hard on yourself and the more relaxed attitude may allow better focus on the task at hand, IE the game. Another way to say that is dont forget to HAVE FUN !
I know some who are very good and serious payers are also wound up.. Maybe some of that is gaining an advantage by coming to the table brimming with confidence which can have the effect of making others feel disadvantaged.. its much like sharking but no one can call a guy out on being overly enthusiastic. of course people's "nature" is much different from one individual to another.
when you see a boxer come into the ring, he will often try to shark his opponent by being very confident. This takes steam from the other boxer, thats a mental game.. pool can be similar.
It sounds like you are trying to make balls so maybe playing straight pool, solo? I wonder if who you play against has much effect?
Being confident is not like you are clapping your hands every time the opponent shoots or waving your arms or asking them questions to intentionally shark.
People are complicated creatures..
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PoolPlayerNNJ
Member
Very interesting thread, and thanks for the posts. Over the course of my lifetime, I played the most hours in my teens and 20's. Slightly less in my 30's, substantially less in my 40's, and know trying to pick the game up and bring it to a higher level in my 50's. That said, my I am fighting the most is one aspect of the mental side of the game, and that is -- I am "trying" harder today to play at a higher level and it's a focal point. It's almost like I am trying to be better today as opposed to enjoying the game, looking forward to picking it up again regularly, etc. If I could bring my game to a higher level, play at a higher level, play the better/best players around, etc. -- I would be happy and enjoy the game more.
No, when I was younger, I enjoyed the game, and that enjoyment gave ma passion to get better, be better, learn more, and so on. I enjoyed the game and enjoyed it more as I get better. Now, there's expectation, desire, all around being better. I had this very same thing with golf. Tennis was in reverse. As a kid I played on the circuit, got burnt out, got to caught up in performance and winning. I didn't enjoy the game. Only competition. Today, I couldn't care less and just enjoy the game. It's just fun. Anyway, I don't expect to be playing any nationally ranked players any time soon, LOL. Thanks.
No, when I was younger, I enjoyed the game, and that enjoyment gave ma passion to get better, be better, learn more, and so on. I enjoyed the game and enjoyed it more as I get better. Now, there's expectation, desire, all around being better. I had this very same thing with golf. Tennis was in reverse. As a kid I played on the circuit, got burnt out, got to caught up in performance and winning. I didn't enjoy the game. Only competition. Today, I couldn't care less and just enjoy the game. It's just fun. Anyway, I don't expect to be playing any nationally ranked players any time soon, LOL. Thanks.
I am now taking an investor and community organizer approach to networking in billiard rooms. I am interested in networking does any have high school students in need of a free weekend trip to visit a college, get a meal and maybe watch sports or a culinary competition. Anyone interested let me know. I am gunning for a promotion. The college provides visas and scholarships, they have to meet standards.
Its nice to see more Asian kids playing in skyline at noon on a Sunday.
I did a free shooting session where anyball can be used for pocketing. Its a fun exercise.
Chasing a high run is not what I am about anymore.
Learning to have fun in all areas of the billiard industry is what I am going for. In my area I can do my own mini tour of rooms and just like some pros no one shows up to watch except the house.
Its nice to see more Asian kids playing in skyline at noon on a Sunday.
I did a free shooting session where anyball can be used for pocketing. Its a fun exercise.
Chasing a high run is not what I am about anymore.
Learning to have fun in all areas of the billiard industry is what I am going for. In my area I can do my own mini tour of rooms and just like some pros no one shows up to watch except the house.
Wayne Crimi
Member
I showed some signs of life today.
I started with a break shot, ran 14, had a nice break shot, but missed it. In typical fashion there was some kind of bad breakdown in the mechanics in my right hand. I either twisted my wrist or my elbow came out???? Whatever it was it was bad breakdown because I missed badly. I set the shot up again, made it, and ran a nice 20 before running into trouble with no shot. Then I switched over to 9 ball. When I practice 9 ball I break and if I have a good shot on the 1 I continue, otherwise I give myself ball in hand and try to run out. I ran out once from the 1 off the break and once with ball in hand out of 5 racks. In the other racks I was stopped by position errors (I don't have my feel back at all yet) . Anyway 2 out of 5 is not bad. This was the best I've felt since I started playing again a bit. I had to stop and get to appointment after that. There's hope?
I started with a break shot, ran 14, had a nice break shot, but missed it. In typical fashion there was some kind of bad breakdown in the mechanics in my right hand. I either twisted my wrist or my elbow came out???? Whatever it was it was bad breakdown because I missed badly. I set the shot up again, made it, and ran a nice 20 before running into trouble with no shot. Then I switched over to 9 ball. When I practice 9 ball I break and if I have a good shot on the 1 I continue, otherwise I give myself ball in hand and try to run out. I ran out once from the 1 off the break and once with ball in hand out of 5 racks. In the other racks I was stopped by position errors (I don't have my feel back at all yet) . Anyway 2 out of 5 is not bad. This was the best I've felt since I started playing again a bit. I had to stop and get to appointment after that. There's hope?
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Wayne Crimi
Member
Time is passing but I'm still not playing much better. I feel like I'm working out some of the kinks in my bridge length, stance and stroke that are translating into better shot making, but somehow I still can't put it all together and run balls like I used to. I guess playing just once a week for 30 minutes or so is not enough to make any forward progress towards how I used to play years ago. Still, I ran a really clean controlled 23 today. So it felt good. That feeling is better than nothing. I wish I had more time. I want that feeling more often after a 50 or 60 or more.
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In my experience, you just gotta play more or you'll be on the Hamster wheel forever. Good days. Catch up days. Never quite what you want. More hours means improving rather than trying to get all the bugs worked out. If you're only playing once a week, by the time that happens, you're tired and might as well go home. Lol.
Not productive. For me at least.
BushkaGUY
Member
I walked away in the middle of a game today.
Threw in the towel after the third rack of the third game in league play. I've never done that. Ever.
I couldn't make a shot. I must have scratched more than a half dozen times.
I missed one and two-foot layup's.
I was missing shots that were routine back in the day when I used to run 20+ balls. Easy.
Been trying to get back into the game for the last year or so after a 40 year layoff.
I can't get the "eye" back; nor the "stroke". Practice, although sometimes frustrating, yields better results. But I'm having a hard time transitioning to consistent competitive play.
It wasn't the stick. It wasn't the tip. It wasn't the lighting. It wasn't the cloth. It wasn't tight pockets. It wasn't the score. It wasn't my opponent.
It was me!
I know I'm better.
There. I feel better now.
Joe
Threw in the towel after the third rack of the third game in league play. I've never done that. Ever.
I couldn't make a shot. I must have scratched more than a half dozen times.
I missed one and two-foot layup's.
I was missing shots that were routine back in the day when I used to run 20+ balls. Easy.
Been trying to get back into the game for the last year or so after a 40 year layoff.
I can't get the "eye" back; nor the "stroke". Practice, although sometimes frustrating, yields better results. But I'm having a hard time transitioning to consistent competitive play.
It wasn't the stick. It wasn't the tip. It wasn't the lighting. It wasn't the cloth. It wasn't tight pockets. It wasn't the score. It wasn't my opponent.
It was me!
I know I'm better.
There. I feel better now.
Joe
Two years of hard practice and experimentation w everything from CF shafts to tips, b4 I came anywhere near an approximation of my game b4 I layed it down for decades.
There may be rare exceptions, but we must face the fact that if you are in your 60s or 70s and you’ve played pool your entire life, you will never play like you did decades ago, except for very brief spurts.
20 years ago (in my 40s) in a 3 hour straight pool solo practice session I could always run 50-70 balls at least once. Now I’m pleased if I can get to 28 - very sad.
i thought you were going to say you are happy now if you get 50-70 total in a 3 hour session....
just kidding
That ain't sad. That's age. And not too shabby, if I do say so myself!!!
Yes, I hate to admit that I felt as good about my 28 ball run the other night as I did a 56 ball run 10-15 years ago.That ain't sad. That's age. And not too shabby, if I do say so myself!!!
We have to learn to adjust our expectations as we age, otherwise it is just too depressing and we might as well quit playing.
God forbid!! It's hard to lower those expectations when the memory keeps flashing in front of you.
Our awareness declines. In the past, those small stroke or aiming errors that tried to sneak in were unconsciously taken care of b4 we pulled the trigger. Nowadays, they slip by and we miss, standing there scratching our heads or whatever else we got that's itching, wondering wtf happened!!
Hard pill to swallow.
I've had to slow way down.
I still play fast, if that gives you any indication. One address and one, maybe two feathers and shoot.
I've slowed those way down compared to how I used to be able to play. That's what took the most time for me after coming back. Not only trying to figure out where my game went and why I sucked so bad now, but fixing the problem took up most of that time. I'm two years back and still not where I'd like to be. I may never be able to get there, but I'm sure as hell gonna enjoy the ride!!
GCs were always my go to. My favorite tables. When I first started playing on Diamonds, it was a disaster. Frustration and a lot of wtf??
Now that I've calmed down and actually spent some time on diamonds, I prefer them now. They keep me honest. Can't cheat em like a gold crown. Lol.
I still like to play on my crowns tho. It's like coming back to see an old friend that's always the same and glad to see me.
Now that I've calmed down and actually spent some time on diamonds, I prefer them now. They keep me honest. Can't cheat em like a gold crown. Lol.
I still like to play on my crowns tho. It's like coming back to see an old friend that's always the same and glad to see me.
Tried playing a bit yesterday on a table with huge pockets and slow rails. Have hardly touched my cues for going on 3 years now, due to ongoing joint pains.
Didn't do too badly, couple of 30's. A nice run of 46 too, nothing to write home about on such an easy table, but for a guy who litterally hasn't touched his cues in forever and not actually played more than a couple of minutes for 3 years, it's not too bad. The 46 was very technical, with a bit of bad luck stopping a really big run. Pocketing was super clean, may have been able to run balls on a tighter table too.
Did some of my old routines before I started playing, long, hard straight ins with stun-run through, gradually harder just to get the stroke arm going. My position play was very off at first, but pocketing was decent. When you are rusty, rolling balls in is a nice way to get some numbers. I also made sure to have nice break balls and not be overly aggressive, but use simple key balls. Luckily my shoulders are much better now and can bear the pressure of leaning on the table, meaning I can play again. There is pain in my wrists and fingers, and stroking the ball doesn't feel good. But it's bearable. My snooker background helps me, because I'm very particular about setup and accurate footwork. This has always been a problem in the past when coming back. Playing mostly snooker, chinese 8 ball and UK pool for some years helped drill in the importance on inch accurate footwork/body positioning. It's also important because it minimizes movements/positions that cause me pain. Pain also forces me to look for the soft and easy options as I can't shoot hard for many shots in a row.
Anyway, my advice for people who want to get back to playing better is:
1. Warm up the stroke to get loose before you play. This will help fix problems.
2. Soft is good softer is better.
3. Take what the table offers, be realistic about which shots you can make, and be careful to preserve key balls and break balls.
4. At first focus on running some balls without being "perfect". Roll them in and be patient. Take two shots sometimes instead of solving everything with one miracle shot. Gradually ramp up the technical complexity, but don't go too far in the beginning. Look for stop shots whenever possible.
5. It's all about running 3 balls at a time. Planning full racks ahead will have to wait until the control is there. Running 3 balls at the time perfectly, will get you some numbers.
6. Don't be hard on yourself. Focus on having fun and enjoying what you do well.
7. Deal with problems as they arise. Sometimes what you'd think about as a "workaround" can be better than what you used to do.
Didn't do too badly, couple of 30's. A nice run of 46 too, nothing to write home about on such an easy table, but for a guy who litterally hasn't touched his cues in forever and not actually played more than a couple of minutes for 3 years, it's not too bad. The 46 was very technical, with a bit of bad luck stopping a really big run. Pocketing was super clean, may have been able to run balls on a tighter table too.
Did some of my old routines before I started playing, long, hard straight ins with stun-run through, gradually harder just to get the stroke arm going. My position play was very off at first, but pocketing was decent. When you are rusty, rolling balls in is a nice way to get some numbers. I also made sure to have nice break balls and not be overly aggressive, but use simple key balls. Luckily my shoulders are much better now and can bear the pressure of leaning on the table, meaning I can play again. There is pain in my wrists and fingers, and stroking the ball doesn't feel good. But it's bearable. My snooker background helps me, because I'm very particular about setup and accurate footwork. This has always been a problem in the past when coming back. Playing mostly snooker, chinese 8 ball and UK pool for some years helped drill in the importance on inch accurate footwork/body positioning. It's also important because it minimizes movements/positions that cause me pain. Pain also forces me to look for the soft and easy options as I can't shoot hard for many shots in a row.
Anyway, my advice for people who want to get back to playing better is:
1. Warm up the stroke to get loose before you play. This will help fix problems.
2. Soft is good softer is better.
3. Take what the table offers, be realistic about which shots you can make, and be careful to preserve key balls and break balls.
4. At first focus on running some balls without being "perfect". Roll them in and be patient. Take two shots sometimes instead of solving everything with one miracle shot. Gradually ramp up the technical complexity, but don't go too far in the beginning. Look for stop shots whenever possible.
5. It's all about running 3 balls at a time. Planning full racks ahead will have to wait until the control is there. Running 3 balls at the time perfectly, will get you some numbers.
6. Don't be hard on yourself. Focus on having fun and enjoying what you do well.
7. Deal with problems as they arise. Sometimes what you'd think about as a "workaround" can be better than what you used to do.
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Best advice I've heard yet!!! Glad to hear you're playing again!!
Excellent suggestions, btw. Solid.
Some problems I have to deal with after a long layoff:
1. Forgetting that targeting & breaking up clusters isn’t enough…you have be aware of where the balls will end up.
2. It takes so much concentration (being rusty) to make difficult combinations, I forget to expend enough effort on CB position.
3. I have a tendency after a layoff to revert to the bad habits I developed when a kid just learning. It takes awhile to warm up and just force myself to start watching the OB again.
1. Forgetting that targeting & breaking up clusters isn’t enough…you have be aware of where the balls will end up.
2. It takes so much concentration (being rusty) to make difficult combinations, I forget to expend enough effort on CB position.
3. I have a tendency after a layoff to revert to the bad habits I developed when a kid just learning. It takes awhile to warm up and just force myself to start watching the OB again.
Wayne Crimi
Member
I switched over to 9-ball in practice recently because I think it does more to get my pocketing, cueball control and stroke sharp. Once I feel a bit more confident in all that I'm going to switch back to 14.1 and see if I can break out and at least run a 40. Not running a 40 in so long has been very frustrating.